Martin2005

I know - I was just sharing my experience as a counterpoint to some of the other posts

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Immigration influx is due to opportunity or a perceived opportunity. Certainly from developing countries a sh*tty life in the UK is better than one back in their home country.

Nothing will change that. But what needs to change is our systems which are abused....which IMO are more abused by the British than any 1st generation immigrant.

We all cry foul when a immigrant makes use of our NHS...but when a Jeremy Kyle candidate young white slapper pops out her 3rd baby from another unknown/absent father and expects the state to fund everything, one has to realise the problem with society is not immigrants, its a lot deeper than that: Shutting our boarders wouldn't solve the problems we see.

Socially speaking, I'm quite left wing (very left wing, in truth!)- I like the true ideologies of it....everyone should be equal. But realistically I know that it just doesn't work; there are always those that want to seek more and corruption ensues. Hence politically I'm more right wing and against the welfare state; I firmly believe we should be limited on what we take out of the system in relative proportion to what we have paid in.

Some people in this county have a skewed perception of what they think they can rightfully have as a benefit or feel the need avoid paying (cash in hand etc). Tackle these first and if there are immigrants doing the same then they would naturally be included...fairly and equally.

Dingdongler

Exactly, the cost of a blow job would rocket!

dpb

Make sure our dole scum and immigrants have contributed certain amount before getting health care.

davegtt

LMAO, This sentance alone makes you out to be even more stupid than your original post. Sorry to use such a word and sound nasty to you but I do think you brought it on yourself.



Not a bad policy and it works for Canada. 3 years of working and contributing before any claims can be had gets
rid of the hangers on. Id be voting for this.

Martin2005

Most EU immigrants are young and single, therefore they are the least likely group to use the health service; that's something ele Mr Farrage doesn't tell you

Shaun

This specific forum is surely now an extension of the "Muppet Forum"!

In typical social media style........ loads of ill informed, uneducated, unpragmatic and subjective bull****.

Everyone's an expert..... yet most people actually know **** all.

If you weed out all the crap from this thread you'll end up with a couple of decent posts.

RA Dunk

At least we have the freedom to talk about subjects like this nowadays, under the old 'regime' it would have been deleted on sight and every member who posted in it given an infraction.

paulr

And with an ageing population, we need all the youngsters we can get. No one mentions that.

Henrik

iTrader: (5)

Exactly right.

Who is going to be paying for our pensions? By the time most of us retire, assuming we're roughly in our thirties at the moment, we're looking at less than 2.9 workers per pensioner (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7773035.stm, but stats from ONS).

There is no easy solution to this problem, especially as there aren't enough kids being born in England to support the huge amount of pensioners. One way out to at least alleviate the issue would be to promote _more_ immigration.

Dirk Diggler 75

Youth unemployment currently stands at 950,000,do we really need more youngsters ?

Martin2005

we certainly need skilled and highly educated immigrants.
Youth unemployment is a terrible situation, but I do wonder how different the number of unemployed would be if we had no immigration, my guess would be that it would still be very high

Dingdongler

The flip side could be that the young will be having lots of children and hence using maternity services and then school places.

The maternity services in my own hospital are under huge strain and pressure. We don't have enough rooms and midwives in our delivery suite. Anectdotally I can say the number of Eastern European mothers seem to have risen sharply over the last 10 years.

10 years ago my hospital had about 3500 deliveries per year, it is now 5000.

I have no proper evidence to say this is due to recent immigration, but it seems that way.

Even if it were the case it still need not be a cause for concern as long the immigrants are contributing to the tax take.

But this is the question I really want the answer to. Do recent immigrants, who on the whole will probably be on lowish incomes, earn enough to contribute enough tax to make up for the services they use?

And before anybody jumps down my throat it's a genuine question to which I have a very open mind

Henrik

iTrader: (5)

I don't think this is necessarily true. 90% of the immigrants I know are on high salaries (2-3 x average salaries at least). I also do not personally know any immigrant out of work on benefits (I know immigrants who are not working out of choice, but receive no benefits (E.g. where the Mrs stays at home to look after the kids)).

It'd be interesting to actually see the break down of immigrant nationality and education level (from a recognized body). I bet there's a lot of reasonably highly educated people in the stats - we're not all "eastern europeans picking fruit"

Henrik

iTrader: (5)

Another angle on the tax vs usage argument;

Even if the person came here and earnt peanuts (i.e. the ten to a caravan examples we can readily read about in the press), it would not necessarily be a bad thing for the country as a whole.

Consider the example of a fruit picker, who works picking fruit for less money than an already established person would do the job for. The wage bill will be lower for the farmer, which in turn means that he doesn't need to charge as much for his produce to stay in business (not that the farmers can set the prices anyway, with tesco etc bullying them to accept lower and lower prices for the produce, but at least this gives a way to stay in business for fruit farmers).

The immigrants underpaid work is then contributing to keeping fruit prices (in this example), lower than what they would otherwise be (i.e. if you had to pay a local person 10 quid an hour to pick fruit, vs the minimum wage, which a foreigner would do it for). The benefit here would not be in the form of a positive tax vs usage of services equation, but rather in keeping food prices lower for the majority of the population - this is not of little value, imo.

paulr

Do recent immigrants, who on the whole will probably be on lowish incomes, earn enough to contribute enough tax to make up for the services they use?

No different to UK workers on low income???? Do they earn enough?

Its a daft argument anyway. Implying its better to not have kids, therefore no strain on the NHS......der !!!!!!

Dingdongler

Don't be obtuse. The UK low paid workers are here anyway, they are 'subsidised' by higher earners and tax payers. (And rightly so in a fair and progressive society.)

The question is whether it is in the UKs interest to 'import' more low paid workers who will then also need to be subsidised by higher earners. If this does indeed happen as a net effect (and I don't know for sure it does) then how can it benefit the UK?

And I never implied it was better not to have kids, you've made that up and are arguing with yourself on that one

mrmadcap

You really are a naïve Liberal, their immediate and extended families will come as health tourists and take advantage of the NHS, it's just not economically sustainable as you well know.

mrmadcap

**** me, again you are talking tripe, as I have said in the past, why are we not training our own young people (who are reliant on benefit) so we don't have to be reliant on skilled immigrants?

It seems to me you would be happy to have the nations young people on the scrap heap with no skills or employment or future.

paulr

Obtuse, that's a good word ( I had to look it up).

RobsyUK

iTrader: (2)

I've revised what I think this country need to do and it's this:

Anyone who wants to live in this country should do a minimum of 2yrs service in the Army. Even if it's washing the trucks or making clothing.

I also think that EVERY 16-18yr old should do militry service like they did way before I was a sperm.

I however did do 4yrs in the Army cadets and lover every second. Except the bit where some guy was shouting down at my face. Spit everywhere. I just wanted to cry and go to my dad

Dingdongler

Yes

Tell the foreign paediatric neurosurgeon who has been headhunted to work at Great Ormond St Hospital that he has to darn socks in the Army for two years

davegtt

You cant teach those who dont want to learn.

Good job youre not in charge then.

RobsyUK

iTrader: (2)

Obviously there would be exceptions but he could help in a child's hospital in afghan..

ScoobyWon't

Only let in attractive foreign women and swap them for fat ugly home-grown mingers. No blokes allowed at all.

RA Dunk

Our current leaders would still **** up this as well, we would end up with a country full of carpet munchers and not let the normal ones who like blokes in..

tony de wonderful

Low paid workers might be a fiscal drain but our economic system is dependent upon them. Wealth flows up in any unequal society, it's the whole point; exploit those below to make those at the top rich, rich in time, leisure, freedom, wealth. Elites.

Martin2005

There is absolutely no evidence for that whatsoever

Martin2005

Tell me where I've said anything of the sort

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

There is, I have seen several articles in the Daily Mail saying just that