Who was it that said:

"He who discommends others obliquely commends themselves"

Sums up what you're referring to I think!

 

I've no idea what point you think it is that you are making.

The simple fact is that once one people could enjoy the use of land to live on without a landlord, and now - because of private property laws - one must either pay a third party for the privilege or buy yourself.

It's not because houses are 'better' but because of laws regarding the land itself. The 'need' for landlords is 100% constructed or artificial.

And my question originally was what product or service does a landlord provide. Nobody has answered this sufficiently yet. The landlord is just as unproductive as the scrounges.

 

Bit of a head scratcher, isn't it - but here we go.....
A house?
Hope this helps.

 

So there we have it spelt out in black and white. TDW opposes the very concept of private property, proving his credentials as a common or garden unreconstructed Marxist.

Is Hodgy about to see this?

 

No I've highlighted their contingency and the fact that the rent seeker isn't productive, just a pure economic overhead same as the 'scroungers'.

I don't recall asking for their abolition.

 

Aha

Now here is the thing – and particularly apposite as I have just reviewed a spreadsheet of our rental income with my darling wife, this is because my wife is driving to London in about 20 mins to have a meeting with Foxtons to review a few things.

Okay so here goes, I rent properties out in London, and I make very good money (really good money), in fact when you consider I don’t have ANY of my own cash invested in these properties (why on earth would I) it gets even better, in fact when you consider that the banks that are funding my investments are owned by the tax payer it gets even better – and allows me a lovely warm glow when I go to bed every night.

Now the fact that this benefits me is obvious and self-evident, does it benefit the UK economy as a whole, I am not so sure.

And this is just my rental income – when you factor in the capital growth of my Tax payer funded investments it gets truly astounding, I suspect (Foxtons will confirm) that I make more money from the capital growth every 3 months than most posters on here earn in a year – pretty cool hey – and good for me, but good for the UK economy and genuine wealth creation, again not so sure

And fact that 99% of the posters on this forum are happy to accept the above gets even better, and the fact that posters continually focus on the problems with the bottom .01% of the population just reinforces the fact that they are stupid.

Do I do much “economically productive” work to get the income (and capital growth) described above – not really if I am honest (and yet my tenants say I am the best landlord they have ever had – that is why they all been with me for over 11 years) I just make sure everything in the house works as expected – pretty simple really

I have a day job, which again pays me very very well too, and it is economically productive, both for me and the UK economy as a whole - as I pay quite a lot of tax – but more importantly I am creating wealth by the fact that the product of my “work” result additional “value” and also results in exports to other countries – for which the UK PLC gets paid.

Now the real problem is what happens if I make so much money from my London rentals I give up my day job.

Who loses? Me or the UK economy as a whole

the point is - is simply owning property a weapon of economic growth

TDW obviously does not think so -- and no one seems to be putting a coherent agrument against him other than simple name calling

 

No Hodgy, I never said a landlord was producing wealth as such. I don't think anybody is saying that being a landlord is helping the country with meaningful economic growth.

However TDW describes them as parasites, stealing money from peoples pockets, worse then benefit cheats and similar to slave traders.

He also insists that they do not provide a service of any kind.

So, though I agree that being a landlord doesn't contribute to economic growth landlords do provide a service.

So it's about having a sensible balanced view towards the situation not some extreme position. Even his interpretation of Adam Smith's theory (a man who has been dead over 300 years) is flawed and incorrect. I just can't be bothered to point it out to him.
If you can't see that then I'm afraid to say you are the one being stupid.

Btw, you go on about these investments being 'tax payer funded' but this is a recent development, ie the last five years. Many people have been landlords alot longer than that.

 

sorry, I think this is exactly what TDW is getting at, that they are not really "wealth producing" in any meaningfull sense, certainly not in a way that Adam Smith would have understood it.

they provide a service (based on something that already exists), sure - but is that wealth creation?

 

So it actually is my money to a certain extent, well a small percentage anyway.

 

WTF, I can't believe you just admitted you would rather give our money to some foreign bonga bonga third world country than help our own elderly, most of which fought for this country and for people like you to have the rights you do, and this is how you want to repay them?

Ok seeing as you don't want our elderly to receive their own money, would the money not be better spent on our soldiers who have come back from places like Afghanistan and other sh1teholes with injuries, some new hospitals or the likes for them, after seeing what other countries like USA give their troops we get a raw deal over here.

 

Hodgy, I'll repeat myself, nobody is saying it is wealth creation. So what? Lots of people provide services that similarly do not create wealth. What wealth is a solicitor creating who deals with wills and probate?

Now answer me this please. Do you agree with TDW that somebody who has worked hard to buy a property, pays his taxes and is a good landlord is worse than a benefit cheat, is a parasite, steals money from people etc?

I look forward to your response

 

if that is TDW absolute position on it then off course I do not

but similiarly I probably agree with the premise that the structural problems that we have in our economy go slightly deeper than fat people who don't want to work

it simply occurs to me that the two biggest contributors to the global financial crises (to the tune of trillions of £s) have/had an over reliance on an artificial and speculatory property market.

 

I'm glad we've cleared that up then because that is TDW's absolute position. I don't think many believe that benefit claimants have caused the financial mess we are in. However that doesn't mean hard working tax payers can't get a little miffed when they see people getting something for nothing.

The property market is a major issue and god knows what trouble it holds in store for us.

However if some old boy has grafted his backside off all his life and then decides to put his lifesavings into a house for his pension, should he be described as a parasite/thief?

I don't and I find it disgusting that TDW can talk about hardworking people like that.

Now I don't want to sink to the level of personal insults but if a large part of TDW's attitude on this isn't down to his own failures/lack of satisfaction with his life I'm the Queen of Spain.

It smacks of jealousy and bitterness poorly disguised as philosophical debate

 

The solicitor provides a legal service. Allowing someone to live in your house just isn't a service I'm afraid, it creates no wealth, it's just allowing someone to use an asset (land) which otherwise would be free and available to use. Imagine if you had to pay the owner of air to breath it, could you describe him as providing a service? No, he's just taken advantage of a state granted and backed monopoly over an asset.

Anyway, we can distinguish between productive and non productive rent seeking. Live off the rent from a factory and at least the factory makes something. Live off the rent from a BTL and nothing is made. We've seen a pilling of capital (from say pensioners) into BTL and this is bad because it diverts said capital into a non productive asset class. Trends such as BTL just make the country poorer, firstly cos of the opportunity cost of wasting capital in this way, second because landlords are an economic overhead on everyone else, look at how rents have risen. Massive structural problem.

 

Did I? Did I really say that?... Obviously not!

But anyway whatever floats your boat

 

Glad someone saw that

I think he's contributed to this thread at least, albeit at a tangent

 

Funny that as what a solicitor does would be described as rent seeking behaviour ie licensure or restriction of the most lucrative professions.

Indeed you have used the same argument against doctors, comparing them to medieval guilds so they also would also be classified as rent seekers. In that thread you were angry and bitter about how much doctors were paid.

Your opinions are fascinating especially given your own economic/occupational history and inability to hold down a job without becoming 'ill'

Anyway, I'll try not to stay awake tonight worrying about how well I've done as a rent seeker

 

all this bollox about passengers on the dole is to divert our attention from the real wallet raping we take every month,it's big companies and corperations paying no tax that's the real problem, it has been said that if they all payed 20% corperation tax, no one in this country earning less than 25k per year would have to pay tax, now what would i do with a extra £1800quid a year, OH I KNOW SPEND IT ON PRODUCTS MADE OR SOLD BY SAID COMPANIES, therfore making them more profits, it's not nuclear science is it

 

Well.....

I'm glad I've got a few quid .
And as for private landlords......I love them , they pay me plenty after the skanky tramps have left

Good old England

 

Best part of the programe was the Fat Scouser saying she'd only work, if (after her rent, utilities, food etc) is left with £500 A WEEK!!!

How many people get £500 a week after all their bills are paid? Not many, and I'm certainly not one of them.

 

Yes there is an element or rent seeking in any profession.

As for my work history you are an arrogant buffoon knowing nothing about my occupation or really what I have done at all. No wonder you make your living dealing with unconscious patients.

 

So you think you should pay no tax?

Me too. If I could only have all the thousands back then I would sure spend it.


Not sure that plans gonna fly mate

 

And there's the wealth making element.

The landlord pays you for putting stuff right which helps to make you wealthy (er)

So TDW has been talking bollocks all along.

 

I don't get even get £500 a month let alone in a week. How can someone be left with £500 of disposable income per week on benefits? Sure I understand this scenario represents a tiny proportion of claimants, but it beggars belief that this is even possible.

 

Yep....
And I like to spend it so it's a winner all round
I did watch it back on topic.........if you honestly think they are scum I will try and photo the properties I get sent into
I understand why some landlords won't make it a nice place for tenants due to the run down streets and the pond life who reside there
As they say.....if you can't help yourself........

 

Tax avoidance is said to cost the HMRC around £4.1bn a year (2010-11). The fault doesn't isn't with the companies as they are not doing anything illegal. It's up to the Government to reform the tax laws for companies. However, what costs the HMRC more is illegally sold alcohol, tobacco and diesel. HMRC have calculated that it had lost £28.5bn between 2006-2010.

 

Yes, I am an arrogant buffoon. You on the other hand are such a balanced, empathetic non judgmental sort of laid back guy

However I do know that you struggled to hold down a job, the stress of it all was too much for you. Nothing wrong with that, I'm not one to judge, I'm in a caring profession after all.

I understand it can difficult, having to wake up every morning, work hard, take orders, meet deadlines, work under pressure, make difficult decisions. Not everyone can do it, sometimes you just want to run off and do something completely meaningless, I don't know, let's say a Sociology degree for example? Beats a hard days work that's for sure!

Now then, I've got to go and do some more homework with the kids. I need to make sure they grow up as effective and high earning rent seekers, not some sort of spineless drop outs who just talk sh7te all day long

 

Not that manners or respect play a large part in what goes on here generally, but what the hell are you lot doing re-hashing all this buy-to-let garbage again with T(edious)de Whatever?
He obviously has the World's biggest axe to grind and it never appears to blunt. And none of you will learn anything new.

Poor old Dunk, he's devoted a lot of time to this site.
Why not show him some respect.

 

Especially as this is the first thread we've ever had on benefit scroungers

 

Has there been a thread about Muslim benefit scroungers yet?