How good is the litchfield T20 hawkeye ?
03 October 2013, 08:26 PM
#62
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That's grotesquely unjust..... obviously you have no concept of how much development went in to those cars, time and expense. I wouldn't call them a "classic" either but that analogy is way over the top.
03 October 2013, 08:29 PM
#63
The Litchfield GP Edition which is as rare as hen's teeth (TYPE20 as a basis, plus better brakes, suspension and larger blower - running 400bhp), monstered Litchfield's own MKII TYPE25 at TunerGP 2006. The GP edition came first in the 4WD class. Porsche didn't get a look in. 
Where do you stop though.
Where do you stop though.
Exactly Shaun...kinda my point it's easy to mod to the same spec or better these days...Just back then there wasn't many options and far less knowledge/technology out in the open
Last edited by The Pink Ninja; 03 October 2013 at 08:33 PM.
03 October 2013, 08:30 PM
#64
Where do any of us stop lol
I suppose I associate the T** series that Litchfield produced as more of a 'spec' than a 'model' in their own right. Which is perhaps why I'm not that invested in the concept of a Litchfield as something more special than a similarly specced Subaru executed by the likes of RCM, Engine Tuner etc etc etc
It's not a slight to their capability or desirability, just an indifference to in house branding
I suppose I associate the T** series that Litchfield produced as more of a 'spec' than a 'model' in their own right. Which is perhaps why I'm not that invested in the concept of a Litchfield as something more special than a similarly specced Subaru executed by the likes of RCM, Engine Tuner etc etc etc
It's not a slight to their capability or desirability, just an indifference to in house branding
03 October 2013, 08:59 PM
#66
that made me laugh.I beg to differ, having been an avid follower of your various cars developments i'd suggest that the only difference is a bigger garage / cheque book.
There in lies the rub (again) are those at the fore front of development of the marque more or less worthwhile because of the environment in which that development takes place, (another animal farm moment me thinks) I still think the Max Power analogy holds water, only real difference is litchfield has the contacts and marketing prowess / cheque book to be able to publicise his creations, which by doing so made them desirable to elitists in a particular market.
If that is then perceived by said elitists to be worth a premium over an equal spec car, then his marketing exercise is a success, but to us non mugs it's just a modded scoob with a different badge.
03 October 2013, 09:06 PM
#67
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You could rock up to Litchfield's, buy a brand new Impreza, modified out of the box and roll off with a full tank of fuel and a 3yr warranty (that wasn't track shy!)..... that was the TYPE20 / 25 experience. A lot of people who were buying these in the early days, already had Porsche and the big F..... this was a quicker play thing.
Again, this is what built the brand.Rightly or wrongly..... a n other modded car will only ever be something that has been modded. TYPE20/25's will probably always command a premium. A TYPE20 / 25 is something different and in reality has earned it's stripes in my opinion.
It's horses for courses and each to their own when they spend the cash, new or second hand.
03 October 2013, 09:20 PM
#68
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that made me laugh.I beg to differ, having been an avid follower of your various cars developments i'd suggest that the only difference is a bigger garage / cheque book.
There in lies the rub (again) are those at the fore front of development of the marque more or less worthwhile because of the environment in which that development takes place, (another animal farm moment me thinks) I still think the Max Power analogy holds water, only real difference is litchfield has the contacts and marketing prowess / cheque book to be able to publicise his creations, which by doing so made them desirable to elitists in a particular market.
If that is then perceived by said elitists to be worth a premium over an equal spec car, then his marketing exercise is a success, but to us non mugs it's just a modded scoob with a different badge.
Using "Max Power" as part of your analogy is liken to pieces of **** that look awful, sound awful and most of the time.... are ****.Personally I think that analogy holds water like a tramps vest.
So you've liken one of these Litchfield cars to "Max Power" efforts and stated his customers are "mugs".
03 October 2013, 09:32 PM
#69
Come on.... play the game, at least by gentlemen's rules. Using "Max Power" as part of your analogy is liken to pieces of **** that look awful, sound awful and most of the time.... are ****.
Personally I think that analogy holds water like a tramps vest.
So you've liken one of these Litchfield cars to "Max Power" efforts and stated his customers are "mugs".
Using "Max Power" as part of your analogy is liken to pieces of **** that look awful, sound awful and most of the time.... are ****.Personally I think that analogy holds water like a tramps vest.
So you've liken one of these Litchfield cars to "Max Power" efforts and stated his customers are "mugs".
So the only part you disagree with is Max power.
I understand your reluctance to acknowledge some of his customers are mugs considering your one of them.That aside do you really think that just because you can afford to take a car to the ring for testing with a couple of your employees grants you special edition / classic status, considering all he was really doing is bolting on after market parts and trying them out until he found a combination of said parts that worked well, which ultimately is no different to any tuner the length and breadth of the country, just the bloke has more money than most.
I put it to you that it's no different to your own cars development or mine for that matter, only mine was tested at donnington.
03 October 2013, 10:07 PM
#70
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I think you're missing my point in all of this.....
I'm not on about what constitutes worth by means of what has been bolted on and by whom.... I'm on about a brand / image. That is not just made up of any single part or parts. I'm also not on about any worth associated to a Special Edition or status..... that is subjective in this context.
Litchfield have built up a brand and that brand appears to command a premium..... that is normally what brands (premium) strive for.
I haven't once said that brand IS worth a premium, just reiterating that it appears to and I can appreciate why.
I'm not on about what constitutes worth by means of what has been bolted on and by whom.... I'm on about a brand / image. That is not just made up of any single part or parts. I'm also not on about any worth associated to a Special Edition or status..... that is subjective in this context.
Litchfield have built up a brand and that brand appears to command a premium..... that is normally what brands (premium) strive for.
I haven't once said that brand IS worth a premium, just reiterating that it appears to and I can appreciate why.
03 October 2013, 10:23 PM
#71
the Max Power analogy holds water, only real difference is litchfield has the contacts and marketing prowess / cheque book to be able to publicise his creations, which by doing so made them desirable to elitists in a particular market.
If that is then perceived by said elitists to be worth a premium over an equal spec car, then his marketing exercise is a success, but to us non mugs it's just a modded scoob with a different badge.
If that is then perceived by said elitists to be worth a premium over an equal spec car, then his marketing exercise is a success, but to us non mugs it's just a modded scoob with a different badge.
03 October 2013, 11:37 PM
#72
A point was made earlier, but perhaps not picked up on, that the T20 and T25 were brand new cars already modified by Litchfield, and sold with full warranty. Very different to buying a JDM STi or Spec C and then doing the mods yourself.
Yes, you essentially end up with the same thing but no warranty. That was relevant when they were new but now, buying second hand, and it is less relevant - other than the fact that I would imagine Iain would be more interested in advising/fixing/servicing a pukka T20/T25 than a similar spec car put together by anyone else.
Perhaps of passing interest, my car started life as a Litchfield imported JDM STi. The first owner then got Iain to fit the ASTs and at that point I bought it. A year later, I had the Milltek exhaust fitted and it was remapped at Powerstation (in those days Powerstation and Litchfield shared a premises). My car became a T20 and Iain was happy to give me a set of T20 badges and stickers which the car wore for a while. All it didn't have was the T20 mats lol.
Also, in relation to AST vs. stock suspension, when I bought mine I test drove a UK 2005 STi on the same day as I test drove the JDM STi with AST. There was absolutely no comparison. The stock suspension was jiggly and unsettled, and the handling was a little vague whereas the AST-equipped STi had bags more feedback, was more supply over the bumps, and overall felt hugely better. Add to that that you can soften up the dampers for day-to-day driving or stiffen then up for the track or a spirited drive and I really can't see how you can argue that stock is better.
The only downside of the ASTs is that the definitely do need rebuilding every 30k-50k miles. My car has done 80k on them, and they were all rebuilt 25k ago and I think one of the rears is beginning to leak again. There may be longer lasting coilover solutions out there, but at least the ASTs can be rebuilt in the UK very easily.
YMMV
Yes, you essentially end up with the same thing but no warranty. That was relevant when they were new but now, buying second hand, and it is less relevant - other than the fact that I would imagine Iain would be more interested in advising/fixing/servicing a pukka T20/T25 than a similar spec car put together by anyone else.
Perhaps of passing interest, my car started life as a Litchfield imported JDM STi. The first owner then got Iain to fit the ASTs and at that point I bought it. A year later, I had the Milltek exhaust fitted and it was remapped at Powerstation (in those days Powerstation and Litchfield shared a premises). My car became a T20 and Iain was happy to give me a set of T20 badges and stickers which the car wore for a while. All it didn't have was the T20 mats lol.
Also, in relation to AST vs. stock suspension, when I bought mine I test drove a UK 2005 STi on the same day as I test drove the JDM STi with AST. There was absolutely no comparison. The stock suspension was jiggly and unsettled, and the handling was a little vague whereas the AST-equipped STi had bags more feedback, was more supply over the bumps, and overall felt hugely better. Add to that that you can soften up the dampers for day-to-day driving or stiffen then up for the track or a spirited drive and I really can't see how you can argue that stock is better.
The only downside of the ASTs is that the definitely do need rebuilding every 30k-50k miles. My car has done 80k on them, and they were all rebuilt 25k ago and I think one of the rears is beginning to leak again. There may be longer lasting coilover solutions out there, but at least the ASTs can be rebuilt in the UK very easily.
YMMV
Last edited by JTinnovations; 03 October 2013 at 11:40 PM.
04 October 2013, 12:32 AM
#73
Spec C Type 20 MY06.
Very fast road car point to point. Pulls from from under 2k revs. Maximun torque by 3.4k revs. No need to drop down a gear they just pick up and go no matter what gear your in.
Handling is almost gokart like.
Destined for classic status. Only 16 made.
Very fast road car point to point. Pulls from from under 2k revs. Maximun torque by 3.4k revs. No need to drop down a gear they just pick up and go no matter what gear your in.
Handling is almost gokart like.
Destined for classic status. Only 16 made.
04 October 2013, 02:08 AM
#74
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Litchfield 'Types' captured the imagination enough to be regarded as a marque like that.
Tbh there's probably loads of fellow enthusiasts who have similar, if not better, performing Subarus than a T20, and let's be honest it's the performance we all crave, far above the 'prestige' (which we pay for).
But, if it says "Type 20(/25)" on the tin you KNOW what you're getting, unlike "Type 20(/25) spec".
04 October 2013, 02:16 AM
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(Seriously, I don't know)
04 October 2013, 02:25 AM
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Subaru is not a prestige mark, it's all a bit animal farm, all you've done is express your opinion, which by the way I don't share, and there in lies your problem, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and trying to convine me and many others no doubt, to pay a premium for a litchfield badge is going to be a bloody hard sell when faced with a car modded by the likes of RCM.
To me all litchfield did was mod some cars stick a badge on it and flog it to some mugs as a "special edition" Max Power has a car like that every week as a feature car, does that make them classics as well.
To me all litchfield did was mod some cars stick a badge on it and flog it to some mugs as a "special edition" Max Power has a car like that every week as a feature car, does that make them classics as well.
I meant 'prestige' in the Scooby community. I know Subaru will never be regarded as a prestige marque in the motoring world.
I think however that you're being unfair in saying T20/25s were sold to "mugs".
And if Max Power does have "a car like that every week as a feature car" then imo it supports my claim, which is that you can modify Subarus to the same level of performance as a Type 20/25.
The acid test is at what price, both in terms of upgrade costs and resale value?
04 October 2013, 02:35 AM
#78
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that made me laugh.I beg to differ, having been an avid follower of your various cars developments i'd suggest that the only difference is a bigger garage / cheque book.
There in lies the rub (again) are those at the fore front of development of the marque more or less worthwhile because of the environment in which that development takes place, (another animal farm moment me thinks) I still think the Max Power analogy holds water, only real difference is litchfield has the contacts and marketing prowess / cheque book to be able to publicise his creations, which by doing so made them desirable to elitists in a particular market.
If that is then perceived by said elitists to be worth a premium over an equal spec car, then his marketing exercise is a success, but to us non mugs it's just a modded scoob with a different badge.
It's unfair to say that because someone has been convinced that a marketed product is superior to another that they are "elitist".
Every person wants what they consider to be the best vfm.
And anyone who bought a T** 'new' seemingly had a better guarantee re. ongoing performance than quite a lot of others.
04 October 2013, 02:39 AM
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Where do any of us stop lol
I suppose I associate the T** series that Litchfield produced as more of a 'spec' than a 'model' in their own right. Which is perhaps why I'm not that invested in the concept of a Litchfield as something more special than a similarly specced Subaru executed by the likes of RCM, Engine Tuner etc etc etc
It's not a slight to their capability or desirability, just an indifference to in house branding
I suppose I associate the T** series that Litchfield produced as more of a 'spec' than a 'model' in their own right. Which is perhaps why I'm not that invested in the concept of a Litchfield as something more special than a similarly specced Subaru executed by the likes of RCM, Engine Tuner etc etc etc
It's not a slight to their capability or desirability, just an indifference to in house branding
There's plenty of (modded) cars that will out-spec a T**, but they aren't a named genre, as per (one of my) previous post(s).
04 October 2013, 02:48 AM
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Simple test.
Advertise a JDM Hawk running 400+ and ASTs against a T20.
Which would be advertised/sell at the higher price?
Or give me an insurance quote.............
Advertise a JDM Hawk running 400+ and ASTs against a T20.
Which would be advertised/sell at the higher price?
Or give me an insurance quote.............
04 October 2013, 05:08 AM
#82
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348 Nm, until 6k rpm.
Edit because I knew the doubters would come in so here's the source.
http://www.subarupartsstore.co.uk/pr..._Pack_SACC2565
Edit because I knew the doubters would come in so here's the source.
http://www.subarupartsstore.co.uk/pr..._Pack_SACC2565
and its far less than any jdm twin scroll which produces as much at 2k than the 256lbs the ppp does at 3.6k
04 October 2013, 08:01 AM
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Subaru is not a prestige mark, it's all a bit animal farm, all you've done is express your opinion, which by the way I don't share, and there in lies your problem, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and trying to convine me and many others no doubt, to pay a premium for a litchfield badge is going to be a bloody hard sell when faced with a car modded by the likes of RCM.
To me all litchfield did was mod some cars stick a badge on it and flog it to some mugs as a "special edition" Max Power has a car like that every week as a feature car, does that make them classics as well.
To me all litchfield did was mod some cars stick a badge on it and flog it to some mugs as a "special edition" Max Power has a car like that every week as a feature car, does that make them classics as well.
That notion would be funny if it wasn't so stupid.
Still, as you said to Luckwelshchap, all you have done is give 'your' opinion which I completely disagree with. But then 95% of everything written on a forum is opinion, isn't it? That's why they all get filled with such b*****.
04 October 2013, 08:02 AM
#84
The diesels run out of puff at 4k so it's a very short window, I should know I spent 20 odd yrs driving most of them, the only place they can use it effectively is on the motorway, which is somewhere I spend very little of my time these days, in the twisties 99% are barges.
04 October 2013, 08:23 AM
#85
So a JDM Impreza imported new and sensibly modified is the same as:
That notion would be funny if it wasn't so stupid.
Still, as you said to Luckwelshchap, all you have done is give 'your' opinion which I completely disagree with. But then 95% of everything written on a forum is opinion, isn't it? That's why they all get filled with such b*****.
That notion would be funny if it wasn't so stupid.
Still, as you said to Luckwelshchap, all you have done is give 'your' opinion which I completely disagree with. But then 95% of everything written on a forum is opinion, isn't it? That's why they all get filled with such b*****.
I love the way all the T** mugs come out to defend their pimped rides, who did the pimping and to what extent is neither here nor there in reality, if your happy to pay a premium for a badge and others are happy to buy it off you for a premium then happy days, litchfield marketing exercise is a success, because I don't buy into it does not mean it's worth any less to those that do, some of us see things for what they are, others wear rose coloured glasses.Like I said before it's all a bit animal farm, "we're all equal, but some of us are more equal than others."
04 October 2013, 08:44 AM
#86
It's getting busy in here now
Agree with Tim on the AST's, When I swapped from the spec-c set up to ast's you could tell instantly they were a better ride...No way near as harsh a the OEM set up and less roll in corners etc...I also have a 3" Miltek fitted and was mapped via power station 8 years ago when they were in partnership(ish) with litchfields, I don't pretend it's a t20 but my question still stands...What is the general concensus is the litchfield JDM Sti t20 a better car
or worth the premium over the above?
Agree with Tim on the AST's, When I swapped from the spec-c set up to ast's you could tell instantly they were a better ride...No way near as harsh a the OEM set up and less roll in corners etc...I also have a 3" Miltek fitted and was mapped via power station 8 years ago when they were in partnership(ish) with litchfields, I don't pretend it's a t20 but my question still stands...What is the general concensus is the litchfield JDM Sti t20 a better car
or worth the premium over the above?
04 October 2013, 08:57 AM
#87
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I love the way all the T** mugs come out to defend their pimped rides, who did the pimping and to what extent is neither here nor there in reality, if your happy to pay a premium for a badge and others are happy to buy it off you for a premium then happy days, litchfield marketing exercise is a success, because I don't buy into it does not mean it's worth any less to those that do, some of us see things for what they are, others wear rose coloured glasses.Like I said before it's all a bit animal farm, "we're all equal, but some of us are more equal than others."
The OP fancies a Hawk T20 - I would love to know how (mechanically) that differs from my blob T20 but so far as I can understand, not very is the answer. In which case it will be a great car and if he wants something that's great 'out the box' then it will be a sound choice. I certainly wouldn't be paying 16k for one, but that's just my opinion - I paid nothing like that for my blob T20.
04 October 2013, 09:30 AM
#88
I agree with the comments regarding branding and that a Litchfield car is basically a modified car with some aftermarket parts that are supposed to work well together plus the fact Litchfield offered a warranty on top.
A successful marketing exercise indeed.
Whether the car suits the needs of its owner compared with a "bare" JDM car or a car modified with different components is something subjective again.
On the subject of ASTs, my car was "OK" but cars with standard suspension felt better (more planted and predictable).
The ASTs were perfect on smooth roads (go-kart like handling) but on anything else the car was not planted and felt bouncy.
Personally, I have found that I prefer to modify a car myself according to my own needs (I find the Milltek boomy and the ASTs not suited for anything other than smooth roads).
At around 23k miles the rear left shock started leaking and I had them rebuilt with super duper pistons that were supposed to reduce stiction.
The result was much worse than before and fortunately Curtis offered me a full refund 2 days later upon returning him back the ASTs as I was not able to live with a car like this.
That's what I call customer service.
Luckily, I found a set of second hand OEM struts/springs with low miles and after fitting those I started to enjoy the car again.
Yes, the OEM setup can be a bit jiggly on certain roads (and rolls more) but better jiggly and planted than harsh and non-planted or floaty (depending how you have adjusted them).
The OEM suspension of the car has had a lot of R&D into it and the car is designed to run on real roads, where it is good at.
Most Teins/ASTs etc. may be good for the track but not suited on the road and also require regular (every 25-40k miles) rebuilds.
I'll get my coat now.
A successful marketing exercise indeed.
Whether the car suits the needs of its owner compared with a "bare" JDM car or a car modified with different components is something subjective again.
On the subject of ASTs, my car was "OK" but cars with standard suspension felt better (more planted and predictable).
The ASTs were perfect on smooth roads (go-kart like handling) but on anything else the car was not planted and felt bouncy.
Personally, I have found that I prefer to modify a car myself according to my own needs (I find the Milltek boomy and the ASTs not suited for anything other than smooth roads).
At around 23k miles the rear left shock started leaking and I had them rebuilt with super duper pistons that were supposed to reduce stiction.
The result was much worse than before and fortunately Curtis offered me a full refund 2 days later upon returning him back the ASTs as I was not able to live with a car like this.
That's what I call customer service.
Luckily, I found a set of second hand OEM struts/springs with low miles and after fitting those I started to enjoy the car again.
Yes, the OEM setup can be a bit jiggly on certain roads (and rolls more) but better jiggly and planted than harsh and non-planted or floaty (depending how you have adjusted them).
The OEM suspension of the car has had a lot of R&D into it and the car is designed to run on real roads, where it is good at.
Most Teins/ASTs etc. may be good for the track but not suited on the road and also require regular (every 25-40k miles) rebuilds.
I'll get my coat now.
Last edited by fpan; 04 October 2013 at 09:41 AM.
04 October 2013, 10:22 AM
#89
I agree with the comments regarding branding and that a Litchfield car is basically a modified car with some aftermarket parts that are supposed to work well together plus the fact Litchfield offered a warranty on top.
A successful marketing exercise indeed.
Whether the car suits the needs of its owner compared with a "bare" JDM car or a car modified with different components is something subjective again.
On the subject of ASTs, my car was "OK" but cars with standard suspension felt better (more planted and predictable).
The ASTs were perfect on smooth roads (go-kart like handling) but on anything else the car was not planted and felt bouncy.
Personally, I have found that I prefer to modify a car myself according to my own needs (I find the Milltek boomy and the ASTs not suited for anything other than smooth roads).
At around 23k miles the rear left shock started leaking and I had them rebuilt with super duper pistons that were supposed to reduce stiction.
The result was much worse than before and fortunately Curtis offered me a full refund 2 days later upon returning him back the ASTs as I was not able to live with a car like this.
That's what I call customer service.
Luckily, I found a set of second hand OEM struts/springs with low miles and after fitting those I started to enjoy the car again.
Yes, the OEM setup can be a bit jiggly on certain roads (and rolls more) but better jiggly and planted than harsh and non-planted or floaty (depending how you have adjusted them).
The OEM suspension of the car has had a lot of R&D into it and the car is designed to run on real roads, where it is good at.
Most Teins/ASTs etc. may be good for the track but not suited on the road and also require regular (every 25-40k miles) rebuilds.
I'll get my coat now.
A successful marketing exercise indeed.
Whether the car suits the needs of its owner compared with a "bare" JDM car or a car modified with different components is something subjective again.
On the subject of ASTs, my car was "OK" but cars with standard suspension felt better (more planted and predictable).
The ASTs were perfect on smooth roads (go-kart like handling) but on anything else the car was not planted and felt bouncy.
Personally, I have found that I prefer to modify a car myself according to my own needs (I find the Milltek boomy and the ASTs not suited for anything other than smooth roads).
At around 23k miles the rear left shock started leaking and I had them rebuilt with super duper pistons that were supposed to reduce stiction.
The result was much worse than before and fortunately Curtis offered me a full refund 2 days later upon returning him back the ASTs as I was not able to live with a car like this.
That's what I call customer service.
Luckily, I found a set of second hand OEM struts/springs with low miles and after fitting those I started to enjoy the car again.
Yes, the OEM setup can be a bit jiggly on certain roads (and rolls more) but better jiggly and planted than harsh and non-planted or floaty (depending how you have adjusted them).
The OEM suspension of the car has had a lot of R&D into it and the car is designed to run on real roads, where it is good at.
Most Teins/ASTs etc. may be good for the track but not suited on the road and also require regular (every 25-40k miles) rebuilds.
I'll get my coat now.
As an aside, have those who are pooh poohing the Litchfield T range actually driven one?
04 October 2013, 10:25 AM
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I'm not saying it's a classic, I'm not defending my 'pimped ride' - I'm just pointing out one of the daftest analogies I've read in years. I bought my T20 as it came up for sale (I bought it off a friend who had it for 3 years and looked after it fastidiously) at a time when I was looking for a new toy. I didn't pay much of a premium over what I'd have paid for a similarly low mileage JDM STI and I got a car that had a tonne of service history, was in good condition and came with a set of summer and winter tyres and two sets of suspension from a seller I knew and who I knew looked after it. I also happened to pay what than a specialist dealer had offered him for the car which given that the dealer would have been looking to sell it for a profit means it probably wasn't that bad a buy. And what I have ended up with is a car that is an absolute joy to drive. Sure, I could maybe have spent a few quid less and bought and modified a UK STI, for example, but I quite like buying something I know is good 'out the box' and doesn't require messing with. Others will want to buy an Impreza as a project or with a mind to modding it. Nothing wrong with either approach and I moddded my last car so I'm not against doing stuff myself either - it's horses for courses.
The OP fancies a Hawk T20 - I would love to know how (mechanically) that differs from my blob T20 but so far as I can understand, not very is the answer. In which case it will be a great car and if he wants something that's great 'out the box' then it will be a sound choice. I certainly wouldn't be paying 16k for one, but that's just my opinion - I paid nothing like that for my blob T20.
The OP fancies a Hawk T20 - I would love to know how (mechanically) that differs from my blob T20 but so far as I can understand, not very is the answer. In which case it will be a great car and if he wants something that's great 'out the box' then it will be a sound choice. I certainly wouldn't be paying 16k for one, but that's just my opinion - I paid nothing like that for my blob T20.
An amazing performance car straight out of the box that does not need any messing with , no remaps , no nothing. Im looking to pay a premium as im after the best low milage example.
If you dont mind me asking how much did you pay for yours ?