LuckyWelshchap

As said:

Has anyone ever worked out the cost, out of interest ?

One other point, replicas don't usually fetch as much as the original article.

tubbytommy

iTrader: (20)

As gaz says its just a jdm car with some bolt on goodies.
nothing you cant buy yourself and fit.

some people like the litchfield name but they are a tuner with a good reputation thats all.

if you want a rare car get an s203 ,s204 etc.

LuckyWelshchap

Er.... no, not really.

What you'd have is a JDM Spec C Hawk with suspension similar to a T20.
Uprate the map and you'd have a JDM Spec C with suspension and power rating similar to a T20.

If that's what you're after then I'd say that almost without a doubt it will be cost-effective to do that, although because of depreciation the difference between a T20 and (cost of JDM Spec C + additional bits +fitting) probably wouldn't be a lot ?

(See previous post).

A T20 can only be a car that has been given the treatment by Litchfield, but that doesn't mean that cars given similar treatment afap won't give you the expreience that a T20 would.

53

iTrader: (41)

Define original article though

T20 is a branding exercise bringing a formulaic assimilation of highend performance parts together in an already great car The Original article is the T25 which has bespoke parts and engineering beyond the market and original manufacture. The T20 leeches off the USP of the T25 for the purposes of premium pricing and a more comprehensive tuning shop front.

If people associate with the branding and feel like there is something special that the T20 label brings there's nothing wrong with that however misguided

It's a great car but it's not the icon people seem to assume it is

Barnesy

It was a good branding exercise, helped by the Type 20 lapping quicker than a GT3 in the Tuner GP 2005.

CRAZY DAVE4

Or you could save a bit more money and buy my hawk T25 spec c .Been garaged , stored for last 2 years and might be going on the market.

LuckyWelshchap

And a cheque for the 2 quid ad. fee is in the post ?

gregwill

iTrader: (1)

+1 totally agree

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

IMHO, If I was going to spunk £16k on an impreza it wouldn't be on a litchfield anything.

I'd get myself a tidy JDM STI and taylor it to my specs for my requirements.

As for a litchfield being a future classic, maybe when there's only 2 or 3 left and it will take another 20yrs, but I doubt they'll be worth more than when they were new, unlike TRUE classics which appreciate way beyond their original retail price.

tubbytommy

iTrader: (20)

i actually agree with you.................im off for a lie down

thenewgalaxy

Get a room you two lol

LuckyWelshchap

Good point there which touches on a few threads we've had re. "where does 'original' stop and 'modded' begin ?".

Imo it's quite straightforward - an Impreza is a car that has a defined standard specification, albeit different specs for different models.
Add STi bits to a WRX and it doesn't become an STi - it's a modded WRX that should have the performance potential of an STi.

Same with a Litchfield. It's a standard and accepted build over and above a standard JDM STi ie it has its own defined specification. Any car that is similarly upgraded will, as in the example above, not become a Type 20/25 but should have the performance potential of that car.

Litchfield created a genre of car, yet that car is very strictly speaking a professionally modified JDM STi.
Others have had their cars modded (in a different way) equally professionally, and theirs would leave 'even' a T20 or T25.
However, I haven't seen ET21's, API25's, RD20's, JGM550's, AA2.35's or whatever advertised. But whenever they are for sale the first thing that goes in the ad is 'engine built (or mapped) by.....'

As for the T20 'leeching' off the T25, from what I've read the T25 showed to the UK that 2.5l scoobies aren't all fitted with engines whose reliability is questionable, but to do that required a partnership with an acknowledged world-renowned leading edge engineering company.

The T20 seems to have been more of a 'but look what you can get from a standard 2.0l STi'.

Litchfield's business was importing. It surely had to try to announce that the king wasn't dead but that there was now two kings of the road. We can see the value people put on JDMs even to this day.

Finally, I agree with the comment about the T20 being great but not iconic - yet, perhaps?
The reason I say that is because until March this year I never knew such a car existed. Had it been iconic I probably would have heard of one, if never seen one.
Mine is an awesome machine - to me, within my definition and experiences of performance, handling etc. It's subjective.

Becoming iconic means collective agreement.
And this thread started because the op believes a T20 to be worthy of note, and to own, and a few others I think have shown that as well.

The real test would be when one is advertised.
Put up on here it would be drooled over, as has been seen in the past.

Put one up on Ebay and all you'd probably get is "HOW MUCH FOR A SEVEN-YEAR OLD SCOOBY??????".

LuckyWelshchap

Decisions, decisions.
Do I start hunting down T20 Hawks or leave it in my Will ?

As I have said, anyone ever done/thought of the maths and costings?
What, realistically, would you have to play with - £5-6K?
And is that enough?

The Pink Ninja

iTrader: (23)

I seem to have started a bit of a discussion here

The Type 20/25's are great cars but IMO you are paying a premium for a badge like you do for lots of other materialistic things in life, I believe the main appeal and selling point when they were new was the fact it was a modded car fitted with aftermarket parts and tuned to be faster than the fastest standard OEM cars inc PPP ( ) but also the car and came with a warranty via litchfields,

Now obviously there are no warrantys left and let's be honest it's pretty simple to achieve the same power figures these days so I don't see the advantage personally, Not all of the cars were spec-c's so does that make a non litchfield spec-c with the type 20 mods a better car comparing it to a litchfield type 20 JDM Sti? ...Food for thought

XDevil666

In one paragraph you have actually just painted a picture of the difference between a type 20 and normal WRX/sti thanks never knew the differences to be honest

53

iTrader: (41)

I always thought the T20 was a bit like the Porsche Boxster, in a 'I couldn't afford the 911' kind of way

LuckyWelshchap

Unfortunately the requirements of my highly focussed bunch of pool-playing p!ssheads means it won't be that much of an interactive discussion (was on the way out).

But the conundrum highlighted by your last point is one I entirely agree with.
Today it is now not about the 'marque' of car, it's about the performance that's right for the owner/driver.

Do I have a T20 because I like the look of it? - Yes, so therefore any Hawk would do?
Do I have one because of the performance? - Yes, so remap.
Do I have one because of its handling ability? - Yes, so add ASTs etc. etc. and I'd be happy.

Do I have one because it's rare, it's something that others value/respect and it gives me a bit of a glow knowing that? - Yes, but then the same would be said if I had a black and gold 450bhp Hawk (around here anyway).

It's pride and 'prestige'.
Usually with prestige comes performance, but performance - especially in scoobies - isn't often associated with prestige.

A T20 does have a little prestige, and you get the performance that goes with that. A max-modded JDM would give you performance that surpasses it, with little prestige but a whole lot of pride I'd guess..

Depends upon what you want, which usually partly determines how you look on something.

tubbytommy

iTrader: (20)

its not a factory limited edition car its just a car that litchfield have added bits too thats the difference.

thats why an s203 etc commands more money.

litchfield are a great company but rcm are better.

of course its all down to the individual.

Shaun

The MK1 engines had forged pistons and built by APi.

Osimabu

iTrader: (2)

I like the fact that my T20 Blob was imported and fitted with the parts (etc) as a brand new car. It's not a used one with the bits bolted on.

This doesn't make T20/25s any better than used JDM cars with the same bits added, but they are unusual as I can't think of any other brand new but non-factory special edition Imprezas other than those produced by Litchfields.

PPP doesn't really count as they were modified cars produced for Subaru to sell, not grey imports.

JC-R

The reason i fancy one as a next scoob is because i watched Jason Plato test drive one on fifth gear which is on utube and i thaught WOW i want one . It looks exactly what i want from a scoob, performance , handling and the fact that its been done profesionally by litchfields will give me a gut feeling it would hopefully be more reliable than if i was to buy a jdm spec c and mod it to litchfields spec. Plus as above posts have mentioned , i can spend 12-14k on a mint low milage fsh jdm and then easily spend 2 or 3 or 4 k on modding profesionally and then id probably think why didnt i just buy a mint low milage T20 or T25. Plus when i come to sell it , it should fetch a lot more than a modded jdm sti. I dont know , maybe its just a case of the grass is always greener

53

iTrader: (41)

Plato drove the T25, the T20 isn't in the same league IMHO

Osimabu

iTrader: (2)

I asked Iain about changing my T20 into a T25 a couple of years ago and he said it wasn't worth it any longer as they can now get a reliable 400bhp (with higher torque) out of the 2.0 with their range of turbos.

So I agree the T25 as standard would have an advantage over a T20, but if you got Litchfields to do the alterations, that would tend to negate them. Other than the capacity of the engine, I don't think there's any more differences. I'm happy to be corrected though.

tubbytommy

iTrader: (20)

ones a blob and the other a hawk

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Subaru is not a prestige mark, it's all a bit animal farm, all you've done is express your opinion, which by the way I don't share, and there in lies your problem, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and trying to convine me and many others no doubt, to pay a premium for a litchfield badge is going to be a bloody hard sell when faced with a car modded by the likes of RCM.

To me all litchfield did was mod some cars stick a badge on it and flog it to some mugs as a "special edition" Max Power has a car like that every week as a feature car, does that make them classics as well.

tubbytommy

iTrader: (20)

thats two post i agree with you on now










do you wanna be my car fwiend

Maz

iTrader: (34)

Get a room you two!

Osimabu

iTrader: (2)

There's T20 and T25 versions of both Blobs and Hawks.

Shaun

The Litchfield GP Edition which is as rare as hen's teeth (TYPE20 as a basis, plus better brakes, suspension and larger blower - running 400bhp), monstered Litchfield's own MKII TYPE25 at TunerGP 2006. The GP edition came first in the 4WD class. Porsche didn't get a look in.

Where do you stop though.

CRAZY DAVE4

Unfortunately the requirements of my highly focussed bunch of pool-playing p!ssheads means it won't be that much of an interactive discussion (was on the way out).

off topic were you at rhyl last month playing BAPTO with your pool playin p!ssheads