Fair comment, and probably a discussion for a different thread.

Don't know what you drive, or what times you've ran, but, I'd concentrate on trying to getting 60' times down etc, before adding something else into the mix to worry about getting right.

 

But the cost between that and a simtek/alkatek etc isnt much different and for the overall eventual spec why buy twice?

 

This is what I'm struggling with. I think I'd always regret not going Alcatek, as is on this thread, the write-ups on them are so good.
Let's say I buy an ESL for £350 inc VAT, what resale value does it have?

I just don't have the money for an Alcatek off the shelf right now.

 

if the money just isnt there and you cant stretch to it then you cant do it mate.

ESL resale value i dont know, not alot if that is the price to begin with!

You really have to think about how far exactly you are willing to compromise the spec and what can be scaled back and what really cant. Is it not worth buying or borrowing a run around and then the car can wait and it takes the pressure off?

Go for what you can afford, or save up for what you want, its a nightmare situaion to be in

 

I personally wouldn't buy another runaround cz thats just extra cost for no reason. It would better to use that money on the ecu and mapping. Cant he just use a std ecu or some chip so the car can be driven but like on really low boost etc? Id have a look into that if possible cz another car means insurance tax etc. is it worth it?

 

2.1 with injectors etc needs mapped for.

ESL to get it running and using it. If the need arises to change the ecu, then worry about that when the time comes.

 

^^^ what he said. Just go esl mate. Think about needs at the moment and not wants. Wants can come after. Just get it mapped on esl and drive the beast!

 

Can you make the decision for me Micky, I'm too easily persuaded....

 

Lol @ resale value. The last secondhand ESL I saw on ebay went for £420 with the programming cable. That means that the person selling it lost £24 of their original investment. Just because it doesn't cost 4 figures initially doesn't mean you are going to lose any more money on it.

Micky is right, the firmware upgrade is a remote reflash, I'm writing the code for it now, there will be no need to return the ECU.

Here is the car running beta motorsports firmware, running Traction Control, Launch Control, Flat Shift and AntiLag, it runs a few tenths shy of a McLaren F1 with a failed head gasket:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDKnzQKJ0mo

Now I've got proper head studs in it I'll be aiming for the 10s.

Funnily enough, the turbo that I bought to give me the 550bhp cost me £500 secondhand, or the difference between fitting an ESL and an alkatek. As you can see, for a given tuning budget the ESL car will be much quicker.

Here's me in a dodgy video explaining the beta stuff (it's come on a bit since then):

www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AJAUA_F89s

And the only time we ever wheeled the car out at a sprint, my lardy full weight 5 grand wagon beat pretty much everything, including cars costing 6 figures. On low boost. Without any of the motorsport stuff (I'm no.28):

www.enduringsolutions.com/13Mar11.pdf

I personally think what we offer for the money is outstanding, but at the end of the day it's your money and your decision, the two choices you have narrowed it down to are IMHO the correct ones, just don't go fitting an Apexi.

 

Thanks Andy. You don't tend to see ESL's up for sale, not as often as Simtek/Alcatek anyway so had no idea if I was to change what I'd get back. I've just seen one on Ebay for a V1/2 for £400 buy it now.

When the firmware is available for a re-flash do you have any idea what the cost would be and how long it would be away for?.

 

looking forward to gettin my ESL , my last one was awesome for the money and this one promises to be even more fun

 

Ah, so the mapper would have the software to add onto the ECU?.

 

yup, or indeed DIY if you fancy a tinker Andy supplies a cable and software

 

Hmmm, JGM aside are there other suppliers/mappers of ESL's in the South-east?

 

I dont think resale value should be a determining factor . .

 

Paul @ Zen.

 

Northampton bud, 2hr drive without map/boost might just kill me (or the car) lol.

@Roypinhey - I may go Alcatek in the future depending on how I get on with the ESL. Re-sale value is pretty important, just in case.

 

ESL comes with a base map, it should be fine to drive it. Standard ECU should run it, but, you'd be in the same position, staying off boost.

Why are you asking about other suppliers/mappers? PM if preferred.

 

Can esl run mafless??

 

Yes

 

The motorsport firmware has been a long time in coming and I apologise for that but our firmware programmer is in massive demand and trying to get some of his time can be difficult, he was sorting out the Eurofighter Typhoon the other day for example.

We are testing the final upgrade in this set (map switching on a switch) in the middle of this month and have frozen the spec of the Motorsport pack. I hope to have the reflash routines finished by the end of the month.

There is always alot of testing to do for each iteration however and if we need to fix something that will cause a delay. It will be available for the 97/8 first and ported to 92/6 afterwards although we are also trying to finish the 99/00 product as well so as ever there will be some juggling. We will announce the various launches from our facebook page.

It wouldn't be away any time, the mapper will have the tools to do it live.

I can't think of any reason why you would want to change it later, maybe that's why there isn't that many for sale? We have sold alot of them, so they are out there, but be careful of the version number of the v1/2 boards, make sure it is a v2.0, this will be the latest and final spec. Also be careful if buying secondhand as people do tend to try and flog them for close to the RRP, and you might as well have the full warranty.

If purchasing a secondhand alkatek, make sure it has been upgraded otherwise it's another £60 and an indeterminate wait without much visibility for the knock control and closed loop idle etc.

 

JGM is good and alot of the mappers are mobile so will come to you which is convenient and means their location is less of an issue.

 

That was the point I was making regarding the lack of second hand ESL's in comparison to the frequency Sim/Alcateks come up pre-owned. I wondered if those that bought ESL stuck with it, and possibly those who went Alcatek overshot themselves in all terms and gave up on their project.

As for 97/98 being ready first

 

Pm d andy interested in the esl v2!!

 

HI Jon just pm'd back sorry for the delay half my day is emails and the other half is getting ready for my daily sojourn to the post office. I will get there in the end.

 

I cant speak much for Simtek or Alkatec. I was in a similar situation around a year ago deciding between the Link G4 or ESL for my V2 classic.
As someone mentioned what do you need out of a ECU?!

I choose ESL as it does everything I would ever need. My car now running around 400whp Mafless. I also have a second map for when I cant get ahold of decent fuel!

My driveabily is ALOT better then stock, even mafless. I think 90% of all classics MAF sensor is well passed its expiry date, so Mafless for the win.

I could not recommend ESL highly enough. I have had extremely comprehensive support from ESL even with the strangest of tuning questions.
I have been tuning with ESL for just over 1 year now and have not found any features missing for a street car.
For any V1-4 owner I think ESL is extremely hard to look passed. And that is without even looking at its price!

 

Thanks a lot for that, its good to hear from an ESL owner. What I want right now will no doubt change, the part I (did) struggle with is trying to buy one ECU that will give me a range of options for the future.

 

What range of options? Pretty much the only thing I can think of, that ESL wont do is run AVCS heads.

 

That'll be an idea for ESL V3 I bet!

 

It's an un-ticked box.