Scottish Independence
11 September 2014, 10:07 PM
#1321
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I would be sad to see the split.
Why vote for independence and then want to be in the EU - who's long term aim is a union - so they leaving GB to be ruled from Brussels? is it just me who thinks that nuts? Or is Brussels really better than Westminster?
Why vote for independence and then want to be in the EU - who's long term aim is a union - so they leaving GB to be ruled from Brussels? is it just me who thinks that nuts? Or is Brussels really better than Westminster?
11 September 2014, 10:27 PM
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11 September 2014, 10:52 PM
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Can you really see an independant Scotland saving a significant portion of the revenue? Granted it would be more than the UK does though
11 September 2014, 10:56 PM
#1324
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I really don't understand how you can rationally vote yes when there are so many uncertainties regarding what happens if that yes vote tips the balance.
11 September 2014, 11:22 PM
#1326
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Last edited by jonc; 11 September 2014 at 11:24 PM.
11 September 2014, 11:35 PM
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And then there is oil - it WILL run out, even though they have saved a huge amount of money ( over 1% of the entire gloabal equites are owned by them) the Norwegians are still bricking it about what will happen when theirs does.
Can you really see an independant Scotland saving a significant portion of the revenue? Granted it would be more than the UK does though
Can you really see an independant Scotland saving a significant portion of the revenue? Granted it would be more than the UK does though
I know that they will say that oil is not everything but with out oil what else can they offer to new business to setup in Scotland? Oh yes they want control of the NHS
well they already have control, ok what about education, they will have control over that yet again, already have control. And lets not forget the average Scottish person already gets £1200 more per head than we do in England so to be better off they will have to pay them selves over £1200 per head more then we will get in England thus will have to be bigger than the rest of the uk.
12 September 2014, 12:51 AM
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Borrowing this from Open Europe - an independent think tank in Brussels.
There's nothing to say that Scotland would even make it in to the EU. Salmond may be claiming that they'll be in in 18 months, but he's not mentioned anything about all the existing member states who may not make it easy for iScotland to join.
Originally Posted by Open Europe
There's a Spanish veto. Scotland would need to get all 27 states' approval. Unfortunately for Scotland some states have a strong principled opposition to succession. Spain, Romania, Cyprus and Greece (and the EU) for instance still do not recognise Kosovan independence.
There's also so far unannounced issues, fishing is likely to be one. Of the 27 states that need to agree a number are wary of breakaway regions:
All in 18 Months?
- Gain an opt-out from the Euro + Schengen border controls: All EU accession negotiations are based on accepting the full treaties. In iScotland's case Alex Salmond will come to the table asking for a UK-style opt-out from the euro, justice and policing laws and Schengen and the a share of the current UK rebate. These are all in the main body of the treaties. Without them iScotland would have passport controls on the English border, have to comply with rules governing the eurozone and be signed up to a growing body of EU criminal laws. Some EU members will object or want something in return.
- Avoid a Spanish veto: Spain (and a number of other states listed in the table above) have an 'in principle' objection to secession. As Scotland would require their agreement to join this is a real problem, while not unsolvable has the potential to complicate matters.
- End negotiations with rUK: If Scotland were to opt to become independent it would enter into a long and fraught negotiation with rUK over the mountain of UK debt, assets, oil, currency, defence, passports and a whole range of other complicated issues. While this is going on the rUK will want and be entitled to ensure that its negotiations with Scotland take precedence over iScotland's negotiations with the EU.
So could this all be done in 18 months of the referendum? Well as with so much of the independence debate, the reality is that all we have at this point are lots of 'known unknowns' and it is fair to say that if Scotland does vote for independence there will be a large item in Alex Salmond's inbox labelled EU membership...
There's also so far unannounced issues, fishing is likely to be one. Of the 27 states that need to agree a number are wary of breakaway regions:
All in 18 Months?
- Gain an opt-out from the Euro + Schengen border controls: All EU accession negotiations are based on accepting the full treaties. In iScotland's case Alex Salmond will come to the table asking for a UK-style opt-out from the euro, justice and policing laws and Schengen and the a share of the current UK rebate. These are all in the main body of the treaties. Without them iScotland would have passport controls on the English border, have to comply with rules governing the eurozone and be signed up to a growing body of EU criminal laws. Some EU members will object or want something in return.
- Avoid a Spanish veto: Spain (and a number of other states listed in the table above) have an 'in principle' objection to secession. As Scotland would require their agreement to join this is a real problem, while not unsolvable has the potential to complicate matters.
- End negotiations with rUK: If Scotland were to opt to become independent it would enter into a long and fraught negotiation with rUK over the mountain of UK debt, assets, oil, currency, defence, passports and a whole range of other complicated issues. While this is going on the rUK will want and be entitled to ensure that its negotiations with Scotland take precedence over iScotland's negotiations with the EU.
So could this all be done in 18 months of the referendum? Well as with so much of the independence debate, the reality is that all we have at this point are lots of 'known unknowns' and it is fair to say that if Scotland does vote for independence there will be a large item in Alex Salmond's inbox labelled EU membership...
12 September 2014, 01:15 AM
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Even more interesting - what happens if iscotland gets its "yes" leaves UK and stays in EU and then rest of UK votes and leaves the EU?
This would mean that the "EU"/Brussels would dictate/negotiate the relationship between its member states (now including iScotland as well ) and the UK - impossible for iScotland to keep the pound in this situation and very likely a lot more separation than I suspect the Scottish people are expecting.
This would mean that the "EU"/Brussels would dictate/negotiate the relationship between its member states (now including iScotland as well ) and the UK - impossible for iScotland to keep the pound in this situation and very likely a lot more separation than I suspect the Scottish people are expecting.
Last edited by unfeasablylargegonads; 12 September 2014 at 01:30 AM.
12 September 2014, 02:32 AM
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This is absolutely hilarious I could not control my laughter
The imperial march into the NOT better together campaign party in Glasgow yesterday LMFAO
even if I was a no voter which I am not I would still find this funny LOL
The imperial march into the NOT better together campaign party in Glasgow yesterday LMFAO
even if I was a no voter which I am not I would still find this funny LOL
12 September 2014, 06:41 AM
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12 September 2014, 09:10 AM
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This is absolutely hilarious I could not control my laughter
The imperial march into the NOT better together campaign party in Glasgow yesterday LMFAO
Empire strikes back - YouTube
even if I was a no voter which I am not I would still find this funny LOL
The imperial march into the NOT better together campaign party in Glasgow yesterday LMFAO
Empire strikes back - YouTube
even if I was a no voter which I am not I would still find this funny LOL
Shame the other 2 are more like mad ramblings.
12 September 2014, 09:32 AM
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If he had something funny or interesting to say, fair enough. There is no cutting satire, even a bit of slapstick would have been better than that. I'm not just saying that because he is a Yes voter, if No voter did that at a Yes rally I would think the same.
I think that pretty much reflects the mentality of the Yes voter, all they see is evil Westminster, they are incapable of actually looking at what they will get if they win.
12 September 2014, 09:50 AM
#1336
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It was funny, but the guy was a bit of an attention *****. But he can't win, if he's strikes them down, they will become more powerful that he could possibly imagine........
12 September 2014, 09:55 AM
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Maybe he did later on, but as far as I could tell, it was all shot from that rickshaw thing he was in?
The first one was so interminably dull I didn't bother with the second two, maybe he had something to say in them. I shan't hold my breath on that performance.
12 September 2014, 10:07 AM
#1339
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If he had actually walked around in a Vader suit or something, made some mock gestures like Obi Wan "you will vote Yes" and waved his hand, anything! It was 9 minutes too long
Maybe he did later on, but as far as I could tell, it was all shot from that rickshaw thing he was in?
The first one was so interminably dull I didn't bother with the second two, maybe he had something to say in them. I shan't hold my breath on that performance.
Maybe he did later on, but as far as I could tell, it was all shot from that rickshaw thing he was in?
The first one was so interminably dull I didn't bother with the second two, maybe he had something to say in them. I shan't hold my breath on that performance.
12 September 2014, 10:46 AM
#1340
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And once again you'd be wrong.
Let's be clear. Ask anyone on here. I am arrogant on my subjects, I am condescending and I'm a first class, number 1 ****. And I hate it when people avoid the facts or bang on like they know what they're talking about when they haven't a clue.
But my bluster, flannel, question avoider and bull plop alarms are pointing at your "answers" and they're ringing off the scale right now.
And you still haven't answered my question.
Let's be clear. Ask anyone on here. I am arrogant on my subjects, I am condescending and I'm a first class, number 1 ****. And I hate it when people avoid the facts or bang on like they know what they're talking about when they haven't a clue.
But my bluster, flannel, question avoider and bull plop alarms are pointing at your "answers" and they're ringing off the scale right now.
And you still haven't answered my question.
You know little about me, what I do, or what I know. You are basing your opinion on what I chose to post on a car based bullitin board frequented by bigots, racists, sheep ******** and a few intelligent/amusing people. You know neither how serious nor flippant I am being.
I, however, now know by your own admission that you are an arrogant condescending c*nt - so tell me, why should I entertain any further dialogue with you? Because no matter what I post you're not going to change your position, are you?
Do forgive me for not taking arrogant condesceding c*nts seriously, especially on here
12 September 2014, 10:56 AM
#1341
It seems like much of the recent campaigning in both camps has been around propaganda and half-truths supported by little fact. And considering it's portrayed in the media that the vote will be made based on voters' emotions rather than facts it's all pretty ironic.
Best of luck to the Scots whatever they choose.
Best of luck to the Scots whatever they choose.
12 September 2014, 11:19 AM
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The videos started off a bit funny but very quickly became embarrassing and any "yes" voter should also be embarrassed.
12 September 2014, 11:27 AM
#1343
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http://news.stv.tv/scotland/291608-r...and-votes-yes/
Obviously this can't be true as it was heavily argued it could never happen, and simply not possible oppps pmsl.
I'll leave it to those that continue to guess and simply surf the web for answers.
I'll pop by in a few days to see if some have caught up with reality.
Obviously this can't be true as it was heavily argued it could never happen, and simply not possible oppps pmsl.
I'll leave it to those that continue to guess and simply surf the web for answers.
I'll pop by in a few days to see if some have caught up with reality.
I think you'll find I argued that it could be done but it was far from straightforward - as confirmed below.
http://news.sky.com/story/1333807/ll...o-help-hq-move
Did your School reports say "must try harder?"
Post 485 on this thread Ray, to save you looking
Last edited by Devildog; 12 September 2014 at 11:37 AM.
12 September 2014, 11:42 AM
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Well, looks like the "No" votes have started to slide..
Scotland’s Yes bandwagon stalls
I don't usually read the Daily Mail, but was in Cafe Nero this morning and picked up their store copy. I read this article which I found very funny..
McMayhem, argy bargy and assault. What a corking broil! QUENTIN LETTS on a dust-up in Glasgow
Scotland’s Yes bandwagon stalls
I don't usually read the Daily Mail, but was in Cafe Nero this morning and picked up their store copy. I read this article which I found very funny..
McMayhem, argy bargy and assault. What a corking broil! QUENTIN LETTS on a dust-up in Glasgow
12 September 2014, 11:45 AM
#1346
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12 September 2014, 11:50 AM
#1347
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Even the worldwide media are laughing at the BBC and their antics...remember that this was a news conference and not a public debate!
V's how the BBC then went on to report it in follow up reports
Stuart Cosgrove
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkZm...ature=youtu.be
V's how the BBC then went on to report it in follow up reports
Stuart Cosgrove
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkZm...ature=youtu.be
Last edited by G.Mac; 12 September 2014 at 02:39 PM.
12 September 2014, 02:15 PM
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Even the worldwide media are laughing at the BBC and their antics...remember that this was a news conference and not a public debate!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHmLb-RIbr
V's how the BBC then went on to report it in follow up reports
Nick Robinson's blackout - YouTube
Stuart Cosgrove
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkZm...ature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHmLb-RIbr
V's how the BBC then went on to report it in follow up reports
Nick Robinson's blackout - YouTube
Stuart Cosgrove
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkZm...ature=youtu.be
