Dr Hu

And a beautifully timed Royal Baby announcement to make all the wimmins go oooh and aaah!
Suspicious Coincidence?? - who me???? hahahahahaha

Alan Jeffery

[QUOTE=ScoobyWon't;


All hail King Alex the first [/QUOTE]

El Presidente.. Half of them are republicans and they'd like to ditch the Queen as well. Remember, it only takes half of them up there to get what they want.

David Lock

In my nasty moments I'd like to see the YES boys winning as it would be a lot of fun watching Scotland get into a real mess trying to manage things on their own. A sort of Celtic political scenario

But of course the NO vote will get it as people don't in general like change and the silent majority will tick the NO option.

All IMHO of course even though I know I am right

dl

Miniman

iTrader: (2)

I guess most have made their mind up by now, and the arguing is no doubt going to continue to little benefit. People like Nizmo, with his chip on the shoulder bordering on jingoism towards the English will not be persuaded, but I wish people like Devildog well and hope he gets what he wants.

Will they? I think this is a case of considering "it will be better for Scotland if independent". Because all the other major challenges have an equally weighed set of arguments both for and against in my opinion (oil, economy, currency, etc).

So really better for the man on the street? I don't think it will ever come to doom and gloom Greek style crashes for an Independent Scotland, but will it be the same, less or more "better".

Even if you're are told it's better then do you really think it will move in real terms, what is already a wealthy country, higher up the list of wealthiest? Maybe there will be a few pennies here or there off your income, but most of us today see our real terms salary differ when you factor in local taxes/expenses/other outgoings regardless of which country you are in. When you fact in real things like post code lottery service provision, there is going to always be a difference now or in the future whichever way the vote. I think living in certain area's will always be cheap/expensive regardless of the country. So move if you want/believe it will save pennies (because I do not see you suddenly becoming massively wealthy on an individual basis through Independence).

I've no doubt that England, Wales & NI will continue to prosper and so will Scotland, but if Scotland is expecting some kinda of massive movement to be the world's No.1 economy I very much doubt that will happen. Could there be some strange taxation Monegasques style? That will never happen. What about better living standards? I doubt much will change for the man on the street.

Good for Scotland overall? If a massive bridge (or some other major infrastructure project) was required somewhere today, then I've no doubt that it gets sign off from, the supposedly bad, Westminster, but I've also no doubt that the decision to have a bridge and the exact how/where/why is made by a committee that includes (and is led by) locals. So you'll have swapped only the go/no go from Westminster to Holyrood in the belief that somehow they can make a better decision? Really?

I doubt that an Independent Scotland deciding things in Holyrood, looking at the budgets and telling Shetlanders that a vital local service cannot be carried on is any different anyway. (and what happens when they get dis-enfranchised with Holyrood "hundreds of miles away").

I think macro economics these days is a good thing overall, much I as hate globalisation and things associated with it. Costs have proven to be reduced in large consolidated environments. In running national services there will have to be, first the separation and then the independent running of the service in Scotland. Again maybe some possible savings, but more likely more quangos, committees and politicians in Scotland. And more government institutions - it's going to cost which ever way you look at it.

I think a blinkered jingoistic "we hate the English" won't get you what you think. Or maybe just being independent even if it makes Scotland worse off is OK in your books - so perhaps you have got what you want :-) But at least you'll have the ability to say "well at least when we waste millions it's Scottish people who are doing it".

I'm fine with a considered analysis and a belief that Independence will be better. But I think "better" isn't going to get you anything in real terms, but more institutions and decisions made by politicians who are unattached to the electorate.

jasey

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...tland-08092014

50 minutes in - the wifey blaming the shares fall on Barack Obama's stance on Syria.

Clueless !

Martin2005

He's not really a 'secret weapon' as there's no secret. GB is very popular amongst Scottish Labour voters.

I actually thought he made an incredibly compelling case yesterday - far more coherent than anything I've heard from anyone else in the No campaign

Devildog

Not up here its not.

The only desperation is coming from "better together". Fact.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

That's how it looks from down here if you don't have blinkers on too

jasey

DD Is right - The rUK have seriously underestimated the anti-UK government feeling that exists - And that's not just in Scotland.

Complacency is always a dangerous thing !

Devildog

There is a "Plan B" Jon. Did you not watch the second debate? I know that Cameron didn't, but I thought that someone as interested, and supposedly knowledgeable as you, would have.

If the end result is Yes, the currency situation will be resolved very quickly and the markets will stabilise.

There will be a massive u turn and will probably happen like this:

"The Government, having no alternative other than to accept the sad loss of our great ally and friend, Scotland, from the United Kingdom has consdered all possible alternatives. We have to do what is best for England, Wales and Northern Ireland and what we believe is best for our UNited Kingdom is to allow Scotland to enter into a currency union with the rest of the UK. This will of course be on terms favourable to England, Wales and Northern Ireland blah...blah...blah..."

If I'm wrong, feel free to refer back to this post and I'll be the first to hold my hands up.

Devildog

Complacency is why Labour "lost" the last Scottish Government Elections in their opinion. And that was admitted to me by a prominent labour MP.

Personally I think its becasue they are all a bunch of fannies, but there you go

Realised that none of the rest of UK posters would prpbably get that reference so just for you:

hodgy0_2

as I said in my earlier post - Westminster were offered, by the SNP, a third option, Enhanced Devolution.

In their hubris and stupidity they chose to "go for broke" with a simple yes/no

now Westminster are back peddling faster than Jimmy Saville caught with a bicycle and a bag of sweets in a school playground

it sounds like Alex Salmon has a win/win - he has played Westminster for the out of touch idiots they are

jonc

I saw some of it, he has 3 "Plan Bs". Can't use all three, so tell me which one is it going to be? How, for example, will iScotland build up it's reserve of foreign currency to prop up its financial system since it has no central bank to fall back on? What effect will the plan b's have on private debt such as mortgages and loans? How much is it going to cost Scotland on implementing any one of the three Plans? You as a Yes voter should have all the answers to this right?

There will be no currency union. Do you have any evidence to show everyone that there will be one other that the say so of Alex Salmond, who on the face of it his planning is lacking in the detail department.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ion-plans.html

Devildog

Like I said mate, lets see what happens and you can call me out on it if I'm wrong

PS - I've never said which way I'm voting. My primary reason for posting on this thread is simply to provide an alternate Scottish viewpoint, not necessarily a nationalistic one.

jonc

Complacency is what Alex Salmond is guilty of right now.

jonc

So which of the three plans is Plan B then, surely you can answer that one simple question, or, like Alex Salmond, can you not answer that question?

ScoobyWon't

Here's the Governor of the Bank of England, telling the TUC conference today that a currency union is not going to happen.

nizmo80

iTrader: (2)

Thats fine then because rUK keeps the national debt in that case
And before anybody says intrest rates will go up for defaulting
It has already been proven and admitted by the bank of england and the government
That the debt belongs to them so we cant default on a debt thats not ours in the first place

I do want scotland to pay their share
But if no currency union is given then i will be fully behind walking away from the national debt

john banks

Then your government won't be able to borrow from day 1. State collapse, general strike, social breakdown will follow. Your property may be confiscated. Your fires may not be put out. There will be no NHS. There will be riots.

Martin2005

As far as default is concerned it's not what we think that counts, it's the way the market would see it that matters.

Looks like it will be the biggest ever bailiff operation in history then

Carnut

Is there no way that Westminster can get Scotland to pay their share of the debt even without a currency union?

But either way its not the rest of the uk that is going have problems, not relative to Scotland anyway. At the end of the day running a country is like running a business and Scotland are going to be in the same position as any new business which is where most business fail.

nizmo80

iTrader: (2)

And how is that
we would not of defaulted on anything as that debt is proven not to be ours
so there will be no default on scotlands behalf but starting with a clean slate
and no credit history which will be the same case whether we do or dont pay the debt


and what would the market see us walking away from a debt that is rUK's
its not scotlands signature on the loan agreement

as said before if you borrowed £500 from a loan company and signed it
then we went out and you gave me £200 and months later
you defaulted on that loan

would the loan company chase me up for the default
Would they give me a negative credit score for you defaulting ?

No they would not

rUK have already said the debt is theirs and are still going to pay it
if we walk away from it so there will be no defaults either way it turns out.

me personally i hope we do pay our share of the debt
but if westminster dont want to share the asset of the bank of england
which if westminster wants a share of our assets then we want a share of theirs too which includes a share of the bank of england too

nizmo80

iTrader: (2)

What do you mean the rest of the UK wont have problems
You have a 1.2 trillion pound deficit which we legally might not take a share of
And a massive 90 to185 billion pound yearly deficit !

Westminster have massive troubles of their own do not forget

Carnut

No credit history is as bad as bad credit history, in fact it could be better to have some bad history over no history.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

The above looks like a simplistic view...the markets will decide, one way or the other, and at the moment, and until we know if we have finally got rid of the whinging jocks, the point is moot.

Martin2005

Like I said, it's not how you see things that counts, it's the market's view that matters

nizmo80

iTrader: (2)

Every 16 year old in the land starts of with no credit history and just needs to work on it
and scotland is no different
what are you trying to say its better to stay with a government who make choices for us
And dictate what is best for us just to have a better credit history

Carnut

If we end up in **** or as you say are already in it then there is not a lot I can do, you on the other hand are going to vote your way into ****

hodgy0_2

Why slavishly follow "the markets" - they don't have a glittering history in recent times of being able to accurately predict events

Carnut

Yes and how long does it take for that 16 year old to get a credit history, lets say to the point he can get a mortgage?

But yes

oh but just a point about the uk's debt, it is a result of not just the actions of Westminster but of a global economy but you wouldn't get that because you think Scotland will be able to do what it wants and the rest of the world including the uk wont have a affect on you.