jonc

Going **** up is a very possible scenario. Independence would also mean independent from the EU as iScotland would no longer be part of the UK as a separate country. There is also no guarentee that it would be allowed to join the EU either without opting to use the Euro and thus lose out on the trade benefits of being in the EU. iScotland could face prospect of being being governed by Brussels instead of the UK, or face and even more arduous task of setting up it's own currency and central bank, but with zero credit rating.

jasey

Why didn't Salmond state this rather than repeating himself over an over again.

I've just read your post and it took approx 5 minutes - that's about the same amount of time Salmond was banging on about aliens and driving on the wrong side of the road.

There's little doubt the £ is here to stay - is it that they are all trying to hide the true scale of the debt / deficit ?

Surely the Yes campaign should answer the what about no currency with "fine you can have your 800 million share of our debt (or whatever it is).

The No campaign have worked out that uncertainty will almost guarantee a no vote - The Yes campaign don't seem to be doing anything about it !

Salmond's no fool - do you think he's waiting to pull a rabbit out of the hat ?

Devildog

The SNP's MO is to exponentially ramp up the campaign positives as the day approaches. I was talking with Douglas Alexander MP a while back and he admitted that the Labour party in Scotland had been completely caught out by this and totally underestimated their opposition.

We got two leaflets through the door the other night, one from the better together campaign via the UK government which was, bluntly, a poor, folded a5 sized effort and one from the SNP via the Scottish Government which was an impressively written and produced a4 stapled magazine.

Its as if better together have given up. Or that they underestimate, again, the opposition.

I'm on the fence at the moment.

I was dissapointed by Salmond's efforts the other night. He's way smarter than that.

On the YES side, we've got serious questions unanswered. On the NO side we've got scaremongering and, frankly, twisted untruths.

Neither is convincing. But if Salmond successfully addresses the unanswered questions then that could kick the NO's into touch

So yes, I think he may well be waiting to pull a rabbit out of the hat.

Geezer

Indeed, would they get in the EU? I can't see Spain being too keen on allowing it, it will have the Catalans frothing at the mouth.

Hell, maybe the UK would block it! Now, that would be funny

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

This is the thing that annoys me and I'm English. Listening to the 3 main parities spin their selective soundbites makes me wish I was Scottish and could vote Yes LOL!

I also have to laugh at the 'if they leave they can't come back' attitude of some of the English guys in here.... next they'll be threatening to take their ball in

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

EFA

Devildog

The rest of he UK going **** up in the absence of an agreement over currency and debt is also a very possible scenario.

Hence the Euro issue is another non point.

If Scotland becomes independent, there will be a currency agreement because the rest of the UK can't afford otherwise. And Scotland will be allowed to join the EU (if we assume that independence would automatically exclude Scotland) because it would be in the EU's best interests to allow that.

Geezer

Lol. They actually got their independence once before, through blood, and then mis-managed their finances to the point they had to beg the UK to take them back. Doesn't bode well for this time around.......

Devildog

Martin2005

Salmond reasoning is currently laughable. He seems to be telling the Scots that 'everything will change, yet nothing will change'. That position was badly exposed in the debate.

I hope they vote no, but whatever happens we need to move forward as either 1 or 2 nations who have socially and culturally much in common i.e. the closest of friends and allies.

jonc

What guarentees do you have that there WILL be a currency union and that iScotland CAN join the EU? Even Alex Salmond is getting none from Westminster and non from Brussels!!

The plain facts, are as it stands, there will be no currency union, the three main parties in Westminster have categorically stated a firm NO to it and it will still be a NO even after the UK General Election. Alex Salmond has offered nothing as an alternative, should the decision still remain a NO to a currency union after referendum. These are the facts.

I would contend that even if the vote was a YES in the referendum, it does not necessarily guarantee that Scotland will be independent. A referendum is a vote by the electorate for the direction of a political decision and is not the final decision of the Government. Alex Salmond knows if he does not successfully negotiate a currency union, the alternatives are too costly and unstable for Scotland's future. This is why he has so far refused to answer any questions or offer a hint of anything in the way of "Plan B", in doing so will open up a can of worms.

I think, despite a possible Yes vote, even Alex Salmond will not commit Scotland to an uncertain future and is engineering a back out plan and getting more power on the refusal with a no to a currency union. It’s a win-win for him politically; he can blame Westminster for not giving Scotland a currency union and therefore independence, the Scottish electorate voted Yes for independence and Westminster may have to concede more powers to the Scottish parliament and Alex Salmond and the SNP will stay in office longer as he will continue to push for independence as that is what the Scottish electorate want. I imagine that he hopes his legacy will be written in the history books as someone who either gave Scotland independence or fought and perhaps laid the foundations for independence of Scotland, not someone who brought downfall to Scotland. But still not quite William Wallace though !

Devildog

Your "facts" are all based on statements made. Its political posturing, nothing more. And its to be expected.

The three main parties in Westminster don't want indepence for Scotland. Even you should be smart enough to understand that they are hardly going to take a stance to support the "Yes" campaign

As for the rest of your post, did you read what I quoted earlier?

coupe_20vt

iTrader: (2)

That has to be the funniest post I've read on here for years.

Do you just spout complete drivel naturally or does it take practice?

Salmond and Sturgeon could do with your superior insight because what you've written will be news to them

hodgy0_2

I agree, the currency issue is in reality a non event and simple political posturing

And I am dissappointed by the NO campaigns unremitting negative message

If I was Scottish and could vote, I would find this attitude insulting tbh

ScoobyWon't

How can Scotland be truly independent if it joins the EU?

Devildog

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt as you're from Warwickshire

Did you read any of the rationale (as quoted on the prevous page) behind my comments?

Or are you just another sheep that believes life as the media portrays it?

Because if we're going to start discrediting someones post with words like "drivel" It would probably help to have some basis for doing so

jonc

You sound like you’ve come out of the same mould as Alex Salmond! Yes it's obvious, even to the blind, that anyone can see Westminster are not in favour of iScotland, that is not in contention here. What is is the fact that iScotland might need a “Plan B” for independence and with a little over a month away until the referendum, Alex Salmond still hasn’t alluded to having one. Political posturing from both Westminster AND the SNP/Alex Salmond or not, what we currently know for certain is that Westminster and the Bank of England have said NO to a currency union and Alex Salmond has no guarantee that there would be currency union. Just because the Yes lobby say the rest of the UK can’t afford it doesn’t necessarily make it so, they don’t control the UK’s monetary and economic policies, Westminster and the Bank of England do!

Yes I read what you quoted and the rest of it on the yes2014 site. Nothing of what he wrote was factual, it was more of a rant and nothing more than conjecture and his own opinion. But then again nothing on yes2014 could even be considered as impartial in any case!!

Devildog

Lets be honest - nothing quoted anywhere is going to be impartial.

I've already said earlier that the lack of clarity from Salmond on certain issues is disappointing and making it very hard to take a view at this stage.

And I strongly suspect the Yes campaign will ramp up its efforts in this area as I've also said. The SNP have previous. The labour party admit theyve been caught out by this in the past. Time will tell I guess.

Im still very much undecided. But I form my views on all of the information available - from both camps. Having done that, I can't at this point see what the rest of UK plc would have to gain from not entering into a currency agreement with Scotland.

If you can persuade me otherwise, please do so. This is a huge decision fro us Scots and we'd like to get it right

jonc

This only only chance of iScotland in getting a currency agreement if they joined the EU. Scotland will not be able to join the EU without the Euro. Also please explain how it would be in the EU's best interest since it is, as it stands, highly unlikely they would be using the UK Pound. There is no such thing as a free lunch!!

jonc

I fully agree with you there and I would not make any decisions unless I had assurances in place to ensure the decision made is right. But right now, Alex Salmond and the SNP are unable to provide those assurances.

I only debate this as it is of interest to me as it also affects the rest of the UK but have no say on the matter.

jasey

Don't forget Salmond has an outright majority in the Scottish Parliament - Something that should never have been possible when the thing was designed - It was set up in such a way that "hung parliaments" would be the norm.

He's got a rabbit alright - The No campaign had better be ready for it

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Once this is all done can we have a vote for independence for Wales? Only can the English vote rather than the Welsh

daviee

Currency,,,,,,,,,,,,, If we cant have The pound the pound would devalue circa 18% over night fact, the remaining people of the UK would love that. So if you owe £75,000 on your mortage to a UK lender. in theory if you are Scottish you will only owe circa £62,000 in real money no ?

EU ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Hmmm tell all the Spanish etc. c*nts to feek off from our fishing waters for a start . We would call the shots not them, not the EU way. The EU would take us in with open arms if we wanted it is a given if they let Greece join well.

And finally if we are such a burden and a financial drain on the the UK, why keep us ?.

I am Scottish and undecided I have worked in a high earning job since I was 16 (34 years) , god forbid never had any use for unemployment benefit and the NHS since I was born and fully paid all my taxes and NI and the rest of the the UK owe me my state pension when I retire. So it will be a complicated carve up if the the YES vote go through.

I work for a big English based multinational but we off load work all over the world, so to have 4 plants 400 miles up the road cant see anything changing there, more scaremongering that they will shut down and move down south.

So to sum up a lot to consider I hope a lot more info comes out in the next few week from both sides.

jonc

Would you care to explain the mechanism by which the pound would devalue by 18% overnight if iScotland does not use the pound? Rather than focus what would happen to rUK if iScotland doesn't get currency union, you should focus on what would happen to iScotland.

Basic economic principles for a strong economy, you need strong currency. Without the pound iScotland will not have a strong economy which means your current £75k mortgage in Scotland could be anything in iScotland. If iScotland floats a new iScottish currency, it will be untested, no country will have invested in that new currency and thus will be weak. If iScotland adopted the Euro, this process is likely to take years, by which point the economy could have gone adrifted. This exposes the risk of bank runs and devaluation of iScotland's economy.

I don't think Scotland is a burden, there is a mutual benefit for being together. I hope their is more clarification on the fundamental issues that have yet to be answered by Alex Salmond and the SNP, but they also just as guilty for scaremongering as to what would happen to rUK if Salmon/iScotland doesn't get what he wants from Westminster.

daviee

Money is a promise and promise to pay the bearer on demand. Gold reserves and bonds were used in the the past but the government sold off most of the gold reserves off. So the black gold that we pump out the north sea means we are good for it. I.E. we have collateral on our debts well some of it about circa 18%.

The second point is like the Euro say if we get 1 for 1 then the pound UK that is crashes and we then use the euro in iscotland it will have its strength therefore be worth more than the old pound. that will be circa .8 for 1

Very complicated and messy that's why I am undecided my wages could be paid in old UK pounds so be worth less so the voters would need all the facts and in anything in life it what would suit and benefit you most ,,, just my take on things.

ScoobyWon't

And what about all of the other countries who are queuing up to join already? Will Scotland leapfrog them? All those countries who are willing to join the Euro (who would have to prop it up) wouldn't mind if Scotland jumped the queue for EU membership but didn't take the Euro as their currency?

daviee

If I was in charge witch I am not, If we keep the pound I would not join the EU the only reason to join is for the Euro money system no other reason IMHO. A few UK politicians would bail out of the EU if they could.

And for the record we could hold our own in the collateral stakes.

Again I don't know enough enough I am shocked at the lack of info available its not if iscotland thought of yesterday.

ScoobyWon't

You can only use the Euro if you either join the EU or peg the Scottish currency to it. So what's it to be? Will you pin an independent currency to the Euro? Will you peg the Scottish £ (which would already be pegged to the rUK£ according to Salmond and co) to the Euro?

So, the following are already candidate countries or potential candidates, Candidate countries:

Still negotiating – or waiting to start.
Country Membership negotiations started?
Albania
The former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia
Iceland Negotiations status – October 2012
Montenegro Negotiations status – March 2014
Serbia
Turkey Negotiations status – June 2010

Potential candidates

They were promised the prospect of joining when they are ready.

Bosnia and Herzegovina
Kosovo


Don't get me wrong, if Scotland wants to go it's own way, I'm happy with that. I just don't believe that other member states will allow Scotland to join. Spain will not as they do npt want Catalonia to seperate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_independence
When could Scottish EU accession talks begin?

Commission insiders say negotiators are not officially allowed to start membership talks with a country that doesn’t exist, so technically talks can start only after the envisaged independence date on March 24 2016. However, if Edinburgh and London can reach a divorce settlement ahead of independence day there will be political pressure on Brussels to start informal talks with Scotland ahead of this date, which could expedite the whole process.


What happens to Scotland if the EU negotiations take more than 18 months?
If negotiations extend beyond the planned independence day, technically Scotland would be outside both the UK and the EU. There has been speculation as to whether Scots would be left in limbo, needing visas to travel within Europe, and whether the free movement of goods would be restricted.

Again, I ask, can Scotland be truly independent if it joins the EU?

ScoobyWon't

Despite what they did to Cyprus?

And since the Cypriot bank collapse, the EU vowed to take control and not let it happen again. A few days ago, Portugal had to bail out Banco Espírito Santo.

daviee

Again so many unanswered questions I would like to have a Scottish pound akin to IOM and Gibraltar and be free of full EU membership if possible have a similar relation ship that Norway has. But I am undecided at the moment, I will bow out here.