RA Dunk

Personally I hope we're not, The only reason I would vote 'yes' would be to walk away from the EU completely.

If we're going to be run by ******* idiots it might as well be idiots South of the border.

Either way we're destined to be run by ******* idiots.

coupe_20vt

iTrader: (2)

Vote yes and you can be run by your own ******* idiots

RA Dunk

Or vote no and be run by you ******* idiots.

JTaylor

Anyone see the Prime Minister's speech? What did you make of it?

RA Dunk

Considering we (Scotland) are such a drain on the rest of the UK (lol) he isn't keen on us leaving TBH. maybe the figures some preach are just nonsense and we put in as much if not more than we get out?

Either way, we're still destined to be run by ******* idiots, just a case of which side of the border it is.

DYK

What did I think of it.....

Xx-IAN-xX

If they decide to go it alone the illegal immigrant count will quadruple

Tidgy

If scotland want to be independant then fine. But they becomd independant, their own banks, their own gov, their own army etc etc

Also seems to be salmond is very nieve, EU has already said scotland will have to reapply to joina fter it leaves the UK, but he stil is 'confident' they wont.

hmmm lol

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Not allowed to automatically be part of the EU? That could be one of the pro-independence mob's key vote winners.... "vote for independence and you get to leave the EU too"

Devildog

Interesting piece in the FT the other day:


Financial Times analysis underlines that an independent Scotland's got what it takes

Posted by Sean Lafferty, 03.02.14

An independent Scotland can expect to start with healthier state finances than the rest of the UK, the Financial Times confirms today.

In the first of a series of major articles analysing Scotland’s prospects after a Yes vote, the respected journal stresses that Scotland’s got what it takes to be a successful independent country.

The paper says that ‘….both sides accept that Scotland has all the ingredients to be a viable nation state.’

The FT adds: "If its geographic share of UK oil and gas output is taken into account, Scotland’s GDP [economic output] per head is bigger than that of France.

"Even excluding the North Sea’s hydrocarbon bounty, per capita GDP is higher than that of Italy. Oil, whisky and a broad range of manufactured goods mean an independent Scotland would be one of the world’s top 35 exporters.

"An independent Scotland could also expect to start with healthier state finances than the rest of the UK."

- 'Scotland’s GDP per head is bigger than that of France'

- 'Scotland has all the ingredients to be a viable nation state'

The FT says that Scotland’s share of public spending "is more than outweighed" by oil and gas revenues from Scottish waters.

The paper, in an article headlined "Yes, Scotland?", quotes the Prime
Minister, David Cameron, who, in a Daily Telegraph article in 2007, said there was no point in trying to keep Scotland inside the Union "through fear of the economic consequences" of leaving.

Mr Cameron added: "Supporters of independence will always be able to cite examples of small, independent and thriving economies across Europe such as Finland, Switzerland and Norway. It would be wrong to suggest that Scotland could not be another such successful, independent country."

The FT also provides a range of statistics, which confirm that an independent Scotland would punch well above her weight across a range of economic functions:

•Economic output (GDP) per head – 19th in the world in 2012, compared to 23rd for the UK
•Economic output (GDP) total – at 46th, in the top quarter of countries, even though we sit right in the middle in terms of population size
•Trade – total exports worth £98 billion, ranking us 34th in the world
•Public Finances – Scotland’s national accounts £1,389 per person healthier than the UK’s
•Tax revenues – we generate £12,629 of tax revenue per person compared to £11,381 for the UK

Tidgy

pretty sure there is some very important questions about scotlands 'oil' revenue amounts that havn't been answered.

nizmo80

iTrader: (2)

Yea like how much of it is stolen by the English government
and how much of that goes to pay the politicians fiddled expensive

Tidgy

, worked out earlier the 650 mps have anual salarys totaling 42mill quid lol

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

I'm sure I heard Salmond say that he wanted them to be financially independant, yet still have access to the BoE? Really?

I've seen various things floated, like a proper border across and having to show passports to cross, and the UK aligning itself with Europe as to clocks, (moving us forward an hour), which would help us with being in line with Europe's banking hours, and leave the Scots with another problem.

I can see that one happening, there are calls for it every year, but one of the major stumbling blocks is Scotland.

jonc

I'd like to see Scotland go independent and see how, as an independent country, cope with leaving the EU and the impact of doing so that the rest of the UK can decide whether it would be a good idea or not. It will also be interesting to see if and how Scotland will come up with its own currency; if it wants to be truly independent then it will sever ties with the Bank of England too surely. Will Scotland come back cap in hand to the UK or to the EU when the gas and oil run out when and realises that it’s other industries are owned by overseas stakeholders? There is also the issue of its rapidly aging population and the larger public sector workforce; how will Scotland deal with taxation to fund the pensions of future retirees? This should make for a great social experiment!!

RA Dunk

That would probably be the only reason I would vote yes TBH.

nizmo80

iTrader: (2)

cap in hand jonc ?
its not Scotland who has leached off its neighbours is it

where would England be if all Scotland, northern Ireland and Wales went independent with Englands massively bigger population and less resources LOL

I am not sure whats going to happen with our independence but one things for sure I am voting yes and and I will be happy to be out of the EU too

and pensions is it the government has already made a right mess of that so what could Scotland do worse that the current goverment has not done already

RA Dunk

Scotland, paying for London's good times since 1978!

jonc

I’m not talking of the present but the future so cap in hand, yes is a real possibility since we are reminded by the Scott’s of their oil and gas reserve with great regularity but then forget mention that it is a finite resource that only has a few decades worth in reserves left (in time for the large number of retirees to I might add!). This will definitely run out as sure as people growing old. You might dismiss concerns about pension situation, but this is a real uncertainty for Scotland and how it’s going to be funded when balanced with its other obligations for other public services spending like the health service for example.

From my standpoint, I'm neither for or against Scottish independence.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

That and it would p1ss Cameron off if the overall vote was for independence and that is as good a reason as any

DaveMK39

good luck to the scots if they get independence. it shows Scottish politicians have got bigger gonads than the entire uk lib/lab/con limp wristed maggots.

imo the minute the scot/welsh/n irish got devolved governments they should have immediately lost all seats and right to vote in Westminster, then be made to go independent within 5 yrs of devolution.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Just watched Cameron's speech. Whilst it was OK I cannot for the life of me work out why he chose to give it from London!

If I was trying to persuade the Scots to stay in the UK I would go to them ... seeing as one of their main gripes is there is too much governance from afar!

Turbohot

Easy to work out.

Say if he went there, and spoke from there,

One, he'd not just feel safe, but be safe in London. In Scotland, he might get potatoes thrown at him for telling Scotland to feel good about their status as England's b!tch.

Two, if Scots were in good mood, they would have persuaded him to stay on in Scotland instead, and re-name whole of the UK as Scotland instead. That would have caused him a great dilemma, because as a politician, he would have had to act dead nice about that too, or face potato attack.

Therefore, for Cameron to feel morally strong about his delivery, and to remain physically safe, he was better off speaking from London. He would have had drink with his cronies after the speech, whereas in Scotland.................well, I dread to even imagine!

nizmo80

iTrader: (2)

LOL


You know Jonc I love it when People tell me how scotlands oil reserves have only a few decades left I am almost rolling on the floor laughing mate,,,,sorry I know its not your fault mate you didnt know that I until only a few months ago I spent the last 9 years going out to multiple oil rig in a engineering team using sonar and cutting edge scanning technology to log the formation and then tell the oilrigs how much oil we have found down there.

Look buddy I am not being funny but you dont have a clue what you are talking about when it comes to oil reserves and take that from a guy who used to go out and log these oilwells and then my company tells the oil companys how much oil we have scanned down a oil well.


and we have not even started extremely deep drilling yet.

or fracking for that matter which has turned the usa from a major importer of oil to almost being now a exporter of oil.


dont think I am being cheeky jonc as I am having a little bit of a laugh with this mate but do really mean what I said above though buddy

jonc

Nevertheless, it is still a finite resource that will inevitabally run out that may last, what until the end of this century or early part of the next with rising costs as it gets harder to extract? Question is will it give Scotland enough time build another economy not based on oil? You're right I don't know much about the industry you're in, but its good that you enlighten us in a reasoned debate.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

This^^^

To the eternal shame of Bliar and Co, the fact that Scottish politicians can define their own future, then come down here and affect ours too, is abhorrent.

Time it was stopped.

neil-h

Has anyone actually seen any guarantees from the pro independence lot? I've heard a lot of proposals for what they want but no actual statements of what they will have. Personally if I was Scottish and eligible to vote on independence, I'd be much more interested in hearing what we'd actually get rather than what the SNP wants.

edsel

iTrader: (2)

After reading exerts from Camorons speech (in the daily mail). As instructed by our glorious leader. I feel the urge to phone my sweaty sock friends to tell them how much I want them to stay a *colony* cough!.... oops sorry typo I meant member of this fine *empire* typo again.... I meant island. He also wants me to remind them how much share of the national debt they will be taking.
Whatever you guys north of the boarder vote for I wish you luck.

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

Can we send them home as they won't be part of the EU as that's going to cost them a pretty few pennies every year and does that mean Britain now has to contribute less as the country is smaller

john banks

If Scotland became independent wouldn't the balance of power in the rest of the UK be much more towards Conservative? Scotland is packed full of socialists.