AndrewCarr SuperRom - Please Read
17 November 2012, 01:58 PM
#32
If the rom is free,which from what I've read it is and includes all the features why would there be any price difference ?
Let alone upto £200 !
I used a rom on my Evo that was very similar in terms of features and mapped myself with ecuflash and Evo scan and cannot see any reason for a price difference other than him spending a bit more time setting up the features.
If he chooses to use that rom surely it should be included in the price you're paying him to map your car ?
He pays nothing for the extra features,why should the end user ?
It's cheaper to unlock a/l l/c on a simtek which needs a code apparently,which is still a rip off.
Tim
Let alone upto £200 !
I used a rom on my Evo that was very similar in terms of features and mapped myself with ecuflash and Evo scan and cannot see any reason for a price difference other than him spending a bit more time setting up the features.
If he chooses to use that rom surely it should be included in the price you're paying him to map your car ?
He pays nothing for the extra features,why should the end user ?
It's cheaper to unlock a/l l/c on a simtek which needs a code apparently,which is still a rip off.
Tim
17 November 2012, 02:09 PM
#33
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 2,263
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If the rom is free,which from what I've read it is and includes all the features why would there be any price difference ?
Let alone upto £200 !
I used a rom on my Evo that was very similar in terms of features and mapped myself with ecuflash and Evo scan and cannot see any reason for a price difference other than him spending a bit more time setting up the features.
If he chooses to use that rom surely it should be included in the price you're paying him to map your car ?
He pays nothing for the extra features,why should the end user ?
It's cheaper to unlock a/l l/c on a simtek which needs a code apparently,which is still a rip off.
Tim
Let alone upto £200 !
I used a rom on my Evo that was very similar in terms of features and mapped myself with ecuflash and Evo scan and cannot see any reason for a price difference other than him spending a bit more time setting up the features.
If he chooses to use that rom surely it should be included in the price you're paying him to map your car ?
He pays nothing for the extra features,why should the end user ?
It's cheaper to unlock a/l l/c on a simtek which needs a code apparently,which is still a rip off.
Tim
So you think paying lets say £50 ontop of £300 for that feature is not good value
I think it's a bargain , pmsl
17 November 2012, 03:23 PM
#36
Scooby Regular
I'm glad you don't manage my commercial interests. 
How quickly or cheap something is to the person providing the service, doesn't have to have anything to do with how a charge is determined. That in itself does not constitute someone being charged too much either.
If you'd like a lesson on business commercials please drop me a line..... I'll only charge you £10k for an hour.
17 November 2012, 03:36 PM
#38
You are already paying for a service,paying xx amount more for something that's already there in the rom and cost nothing to the mapper isn't right,don't get me wrong a small fee for extra time spent entering the data to make it work correctly on the customers car is fine and should be expected,but upto £200 pound is just robbery !
Should be sat next to you wearing a mask as well as det cans.
Tim
Should be sat next to you wearing a mask as well as det cans.
Tim
17 November 2012, 03:38 PM
#39
When mapping Carberry properly functions like Map2, LC, ALS and FFS really need to be controlled with separate toggle switches and the ECU wiring loom needs to be modded to make those ECU functions happen via those switches completely independently of in car accessory functions.
If you're running just a single map it is easy just to assign a function to the light stalk, defogger, or IC Spray or Autobox function, go out and setup/test till the customer is happy, and there should be a nominal charge for that as it's not just 2mins but can be done in maybe 30mins or so. Depnds on the customer and how many functions you're setting up.
However, most people want it all done properly and that takes a reasonable amount of time!! Why shouldn't a tuner charge accordingly.
Toneh....You seem to have all the answers but the reality is you haven't got a clue!!
If you're running just a single map it is easy just to assign a function to the light stalk, defogger, or IC Spray or Autobox function, go out and setup/test till the customer is happy, and there should be a nominal charge for that as it's not just 2mins but can be done in maybe 30mins or so. Depnds on the customer and how many functions you're setting up.
However, most people want it all done properly and that takes a reasonable amount of time!! Why shouldn't a tuner charge accordingly.
Toneh....You seem to have all the answers but the reality is you haven't got a clue!!
17 November 2012, 04:29 PM
#40
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 2,263
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When mapping Carberry properly functions like Map2, LC, ALS and FFS really need to be controlled with separate toggle switches and the ECU wiring loom needs to be modded to make those ECU functions happen via those switches completely independently of in car accessory functions.
If you're running just a single map it is easy just to assign a function to the light stalk, defogger, or IC Spray or Autobox function, go out and setup/test till the customer is happy, and there should be a nominal charge for that as it's not just 2mins but can be done in maybe 30mins or so. Depnds on the customer and how many functions you're setting up.
However, most people want it all done properly and that takes a reasonable amount of time!! Why shouldn't a tuner charge accordingly.
Toneh....You seem to have all the answers but the reality is you haven't got a clue!!
If you're running just a single map it is easy just to assign a function to the light stalk, defogger, or IC Spray or Autobox function, go out and setup/test till the customer is happy, and there should be a nominal charge for that as it's not just 2mins but can be done in maybe 30mins or so. Depnds on the customer and how many functions you're setting up.
However, most people want it all done properly and that takes a reasonable amount of time!! Why shouldn't a tuner charge accordingly.
Toneh....You seem to have all the answers but the reality is you haven't got a clue!!
If you calm down , read what I put
( let's take carberry l/c)
Now if it takes you 30 minits to set that up it seems you're not exactly up to speed
So slow down , take you're time and read properly my friend
17 November 2012, 04:33 PM
#41
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 2,263
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't take this the wrong way, but your comments show how you have no idea of the commercial world or business common sense based on what any given market will stand. I'm glad you don't manage my commercial interests.
How quickly or cheap something is to the person providing the service, doesn't have to have anything to do with how a charge is determined. That in itself does not constitute someone being charged too much either.
If you'd like a lesson on business commercials please drop me a line..... I'll only charge you £10k for an hour.
I'm glad you don't manage my commercial interests. How quickly or cheap something is to the person providing the service, doesn't have to have anything to do with how a charge is determined. That in itself does not constitute someone being charged too much either.
If you'd like a lesson on business commercials please drop me a line..... I'll only charge you £10k for an hour.
But in some cases the line could be perceived as being crossed a little too often
17 November 2012, 04:55 PM
#42
I'm talking about setup/adjustment/testing of LC and ALS on already existing internal accessory switches on a single map, including making timing and fuelling adjustments for both functions. That takes longer than 2 mins.
If it's only taking you 2mins i wouldn't want you doing mine.
17 November 2012, 04:57 PM
#43
Don't take this the wrong way, but your comments show how you have no idea of the commercial world or business common sense based on what any given market will stand. I'm glad you don't manage my commercial interests.
How quickly or cheap something is to the person providing the service, doesn't have to have anything to do with how a charge is determined. That in itself does not constitute someone being charged too much either.
If you'd like a lesson on business commercials please drop me a line..... I'll only charge you £10k for an hour.
I'm glad you don't manage my commercial interests. How quickly or cheap something is to the person providing the service, doesn't have to have anything to do with how a charge is determined. That in itself does not constitute someone being charged too much either.
If you'd like a lesson on business commercials please drop me a line..... I'll only charge you £10k for an hour.
Truth be told mapping has always been a rip off, since the days Well Lane used charge £600 for an FCD and a bleed valve, then passed it off as a bespoke map! Guess what happened to them.
17 November 2012, 04:58 PM
#44
Scooby Regular
What one person see's as a complete bargain, one may see as being over the top, but so is the advantage of an open market where choices are free for all.
17 November 2012, 04:59 PM
#45
I read your post properly.
I'm talking about setup/adjustment/testing of LC and ALS on already existing internal accessory switches on a single map, including making timing and fuelling adjustments for both functions. That takes longer than 2 mins.
If it's only taking you 2mins i wouldn't want you doing mine.
I'm talking about setup/adjustment/testing of LC and ALS on already existing internal accessory switches on a single map, including making timing and fuelling adjustments for both functions. That takes longer than 2 mins.
If it's only taking you 2mins i wouldn't want you doing mine.
17 November 2012, 05:04 PM
#46
Scooby Regular
Based on what you're saying and given what's unfolding about the dark art of 'mapping', commercial world=charge whatever you can get away with and business=legalised extortion. That in itself cannot be sustained indefinitely because sooner or later people wise up. A remap is about the same cost as a major service in a workshop. Which one is more labour and time intensive and therefore representative of a fair exchange of service to expense? Which one requires a greater working capital to set up? You do the maths.
Truth be told mapping has always been a rip off, since the days Well Lane used charge £600 for an FCD and a bleed valve, then passed it off as a bespoke map! Guess what happened to them.
Truth be told mapping has always been a rip off, since the days Well Lane used charge £600 for an FCD and a bleed valve, then passed it off as a bespoke map! Guess what happened to them.
I personally think that a car service is actually more expensive than having a remap, so each to their own opinions.
Everything in life can be seen as a rip off when you can do it yourself at a greatly reduced cost, but then some of us value our time and that of someone elses as poles apart and have no problem paying for a convenience. Life is not just about knowing something, it can be about "I can't be arsed".
Value and worth are totally subjective..... basing any argument that can ultimately relate back to this kind of thing is totally pointless imo.
17 November 2012, 06:19 PM
#47
There are people that understand what's involved and people who don't and just see 'cool' new features,it doesn't take a degree to know which thinks its overpriced.
I don't think £300-350 is overpriced for a remap,I do however stand by my statement that upto £200 on top of what you're already paying to fit some switches and adjust some tables is pure greed and taking advantage of the enthusiast market,where they would make a damn sight less money if it were not around.
As stated by Einstein above,a few years back you could get away with but now people are fed up of paying through the nose and rightly so they look into what's involved themselves.
That's what I did a few years ago after many disappointing 'mapping' sessions.
Tim
I don't think £300-350 is overpriced for a remap,I do however stand by my statement that upto £200 on top of what you're already paying to fit some switches and adjust some tables is pure greed and taking advantage of the enthusiast market,where they would make a damn sight less money if it were not around.
As stated by Einstein above,a few years back you could get away with but now people are fed up of paying through the nose and rightly so they look into what's involved themselves.
That's what I did a few years ago after many disappointing 'mapping' sessions.
Tim
17 November 2012, 06:23 PM
#48
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 2,263
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I read your post properly.
I'm talking about setup/adjustment/testing of LC and ALS on already existing internal accessory switches on a single map, including making timing and fuelling adjustments for both functions. That takes longer than 2 mins.
If it's only taking you 2mins i wouldn't want you doing mine.
I'm talking about setup/adjustment/testing of LC and ALS on already existing internal accessory switches on a single map, including making timing and fuelling adjustments for both functions. That takes longer than 2 mins.
If it's only taking you 2mins i wouldn't want you doing mine.
And we are still waiting for you to back up you're comments about Andy Carr wrecking engines ?
17 November 2012, 06:47 PM
#49
Commercial business is normally about making money (either short term or in the long term) and each business will do that in the way it see's fit.
I personally think that a car service is actually more expensive than having a remap, so each to their own opinions.
Everything in life can be seen as a rip off when you can do it yourself at a greatly reduced cost, but then some of us value our time and that of someone elses as poles apart and have no problem paying for a convenience. Life is not just about knowing something, it can be about "I can't be arsed".
Value and worth are totally subjective..... basing any argument that can ultimately relate back to this kind of thing is totally pointless imo.
I personally think that a car service is actually more expensive than having a remap, so each to their own opinions.
Everything in life can be seen as a rip off when you can do it yourself at a greatly reduced cost, but then some of us value our time and that of someone elses as poles apart and have no problem paying for a convenience. Life is not just about knowing something, it can be about "I can't be arsed".
Value and worth are totally subjective..... basing any argument that can ultimately relate back to this kind of thing is totally pointless imo.
Using the 'charge what you can' mantra is ultimately damaging to the long term future of any business. When customers become aware of the inequity then the **** hits the fan. This is detrimental to the image of the profession and for future business. Ultimately by your own analogical extrapolation it's a case of making hay while the sun shines. However going by current events the sky is turning decidely cloudy.
17 November 2012, 07:11 PM
#50
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 2,263
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've heard pretty much everything , why shouldn't mappers charge what they like , mappers put on the same level as doctors , mappers using software available to everyone but changing the name and claiming its their creation
But because they make you're car faster , it all becomes acceptable
It really beggers belief , I can't get my head round it
But because they make you're car faster , it all becomes acceptable
It really beggers belief , I can't get my head round it
17 November 2012, 07:17 PM
#51
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: north of the south border
Posts: 4,510
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've heard pretty much everything , why shouldn't mappers charge what they like , mappers put on the same level as doctors , mappers using software available to everyone but changing the name and claiming its their creation
But because they make you're car faster , it all becomes acceptable
It really beggers belief , I can't get my head round it
But because they make you're car faster , it all becomes acceptable
It really beggers belief , I can't get my head round it
You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about people making a living out of mapping and i think im speaking for all when i say your just going around in circles without having any proof or valid points to make except on team carr,
Please list all your factual issues so we can try and make some sense of what your actual aim/problem is
17 November 2012, 07:33 PM
#52
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 2,263
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lets get this right, 1 mapper has re named a rom (which is wrong) and passed it off as his own so whats the problem with the rest then toneh ?
You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about people making a living out of mapping and i think im speaking for all when i say your just going around in circles without having any proof or valid points to make except on team carr,
Please list all your factual issues so we can try and make some sense of what your actual aim/problem is
You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about people making a living out of mapping and i think im speaking for all when i say your just going around in circles without having any proof or valid points to make except on team carr,
Please list all your factual issues so we can try and make some sense of what your actual aim/problem is
See the post about ecutek / o/s and labour that you did , I
Said yeah same labour same time , but different software costs , so how are they the same price
Second point why has it been thrown around that some o/s software is no good , yet it obviously is ( you now this for fact )
It's not hard to figure summat don't add up mate , but if you think it's all ok fine
17 November 2012, 07:50 PM
#53
Scooby Regular
It's true value and worth are subjective but the correlation between monies given and services rendered is easy enough for anyone to work out. You don't have to be Einstein to have a concept of what equates to value for money. The legal profession for example, solicitor's fees and the like. Do they represent value for money? Some would say not and liken those in the legal profession to parasites.
Using the 'charge what you can' mantra is ultimately damaging to the long term future of any business. When customers become aware of the inequity then the **** hits the fan. This is detrimental to the image of the profession and for future business. Ultimately by your own analogical extrapolation it's a case of making hay while the sun shines. However going by current events the sky is turning decidely cloudy.
Using the 'charge what you can' mantra is ultimately damaging to the long term future of any business. When customers become aware of the inequity then the **** hits the fan. This is detrimental to the image of the profession and for future business. Ultimately by your own analogical extrapolation it's a case of making hay while the sun shines. However going by current events the sky is turning decidely cloudy.
The facts remain and will always remain.....
Unless this is a monopoly (and even that doesn't change most things in life) people will ultimately vote with their pocket assuming choice is available. Whilst they continue to vote and spend their cash on what they want, this whole situation will continue - like always as long as there is choice and a free market.
What you, I or anyone thinks as being VFM, rip-off and anything is irrelevant, unless we all "think" the same and back that up with a non-vote. i.e. stop paying for that service / product.
"We" can't even stand together when it really counts in today's society and will be will be.
If only life was so simple, but as we and our society evolve so does the inability to be realistic as we used to be.
17 November 2012, 07:52 PM
#54
Unmapped 12.4s @ 105
iTrader: (29)
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Newcastle. 330bhp-289lb/ft @ 1bar boost - 12.4s @ 105mph
Posts: 11,776
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
Lets get this right, 1 mapper has re named a rom (which is wrong) and passed it off as his own so whats the problem with the rest then toneh ?
You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about people making a living out of mapping and i think im speaking for all when i say your just going around in circles without having any proof or valid points to make except on team carr,
Please list all your factual issues so we can try and make some sense of what your actual aim/problem is
You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about people making a living out of mapping and i think im speaking for all when i say your just going around in circles without having any proof or valid points to make except on team carr,
Please list all your factual issues so we can try and make some sense of what your actual aim/problem is
Tony what is your problem, spell it out please.
I've nothing mappers earning a living, and in some cases a good living, however that comes from experience. That's what people are paying for when they get their car remapped.
I think the costs of remapping bandied about are high, but, if that's what people are willing to pay then so be it.
By your own admission, you're a welder/fabricator by trade IIRC. Do you charge the going rate, or what I and others would think is a fair price?
17 November 2012, 08:07 PM
#56
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 2,263
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Your view is very simplistic.
The facts remain and will always remain.....
Unless this is a monopoly (and even that doesn't change most things in life) people will ultimately vote with their pocket assuming choice is available. Whilst they continue to vote and spend their cash on what they want, this whole situation will continue - like always as long as there is choice and a free market.
What you, I or anyone thinks as being VFM, rip-off and anything is irrelevant, unless we all "think" the same and back that up with a non-vote. i.e. stop paying for that service / product.
"We" can't even stand together when it really counts in today's society and will be will be.
If only life was so simple, but as we and our society evolve so does the inability to be realistic as we used to be.
The facts remain and will always remain.....
Unless this is a monopoly (and even that doesn't change most things in life) people will ultimately vote with their pocket assuming choice is available. Whilst they continue to vote and spend their cash on what they want, this whole situation will continue - like always as long as there is choice and a free market.
What you, I or anyone thinks as being VFM, rip-off and anything is irrelevant, unless we all "think" the same and back that up with a non-vote. i.e. stop paying for that service / product.
"We" can't even stand together when it really counts in today's society and will be will be.
If only life was so simple, but as we and our society evolve so does the inability to be realistic as we used to be.
It could well be the service provider , it only takes one to offer substantial better vfm and the change could begin , but this isn't gonna happen anytime soon
Because all I can assume is that work is plentiful ( they always say how busy they are ) and it's a good bet that the one or two that did break ranks could potentially find themselves with a rapidly declining reputation ,,, especially how we've seen what a loyal following certain mappers have , which has the added disadvantage of a difficult start for new guys wishing to start
17 November 2012, 08:10 PM
#57
Scooby Regular
toneh,
That's the reality of life though mate.
No one forces me who to spend and what to spend my money on. Trust is a big thing for me. If I trust someone then costs are not so important, but I suspect they go hand in hand in the first place to a degree.
I've also learnt that "Dear is cheap and cheap is dear"... both in business and personal hobbies.
That's the reality of life though mate.
No one forces me who to spend and what to spend my money on. Trust is a big thing for me. If I trust someone then costs are not so important, but I suspect they go hand in hand in the first place to a degree.
I've also learnt that "Dear is cheap and cheap is dear"... both in business and personal hobbies.
Last edited by Shaun; 17 November 2012 at 08:12 PM.
17 November 2012, 08:17 PM
#58
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 2,263
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This!
Tony what is your problem, spell it out please.
I've nothing mappers earning a living, and in some cases a good living, however that comes from experience. That's what people are paying for when they get their car remapped.
I think the costs of remapping bandied about are high, but, if that's what people are willing to pay then so be it.
By your own admission, you're a welder/fabricator by trade IIRC. Do you charge the going rate, or what I and others would think is a fair price?
Tony what is your problem, spell it out please.
I've nothing mappers earning a living, and in some cases a good living, however that comes from experience. That's what people are paying for when they get their car remapped.
I think the costs of remapping bandied about are high, but, if that's what people are willing to pay then so be it.
By your own admission, you're a welder/fabricator by trade IIRC. Do you charge the going rate, or what I and others would think is a fair price?
My company dependent on the customer circa £30 phr
And that's after investing in at least 500k in equipment + premises + overheads
So for that amount of investment for the hourly rate return makes mapping seem a little on the expensive side wouldn't you agree
17 November 2012, 08:40 PM
#60
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 2,263
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Its hard going , lots of competition , and now from Europe ( even small jobs)
Having to find large volumes of work and produce a quick turnaround while still maintaining 1st class quality , it's challenging to say the least
That said been trading since the 70s and holding very strong even in these so called hard times
Bought 3 new welding plants few months ago 5k each
New laser cutter last year circa 200k
All the lads have had a rise annually and an excellent financial status
So now tell me how hard mappers have it lol ?