Pauljudge

Hats of to the guy if he wants to have a go at mapping his own car i should amagine he will get great satisfaction when it works but to have a dig at those who would rather go down the safe rout is a bit uncalled for.

Shaun

I have never insinuated otherwise.

Infected by sti

iTrader: (6)

I know that there are other factors that come in to play like travelling and fuel and not trying to p1ss on what they do in any way shape or form as no doubt as they have proven over the years they certainly know the game! Just some places/prices can seem to be a bit on the steep side as we all love our cars and want the best for them within what we can fundamentally afford, i was given a price recently which i was happy with and included the guy travelling, Which i shall be taking him up on, and that was him sorting my map installing an ecu and a couple of other odds and sods and for what he quoted me i was happy enough especially if it takes him best part of the day, not everything is expensive just when you hear stories of "only took him an hour" yet still paid a rudiculous amount! There are certain parts that can be taken advantage of imo NOT TO SAY I AM IMPLYING THAT TO THE GUYS ON HERE JUST FROM PREVIOUS EXPERIENCES (vauxhalls)

Tidgy

problem is once you've been aorund a while you'll realise you've seen it all before, same warnings are made, yet it happens anayway and the next time it comes round people say exactly the same, and then rinse and repeat.

As i said in previous post, exactly this happened 3 years ago, started off in exactly the same way 'o im only doing my own car and not doing others' then low an behold they setup shop and cars started exploding all over the place.

Also calling the thread 'the great mapping rip off' is just begging for it to kick off lol

I'd be interested to see what would happen if a thread like this got posted on 22b, most of the top mappers don't venture on scoobynet anymore because of all of the people who make wild claims and seem to claim they know it all, simply put they can't be arsed with the hassel.

petethemeat

iTrader: (6)

interesting thread and i applaud toneh for his efforts.

I didnt realise this was even in the grasp of joe bloggs that invests the time and effort to understand (providing they do understand) . I am off to do a bit of research i think

Megaman

iTrader: (4)

I would rather leave mapping to those with the experience of knowing what works and what doesn't. Fear of having to confess a mistake to the missus puts me of lol

mattkilley

this is funny as f***

Infected by sti

iTrader: (6)

Lmao did not even factor the mrs in to costs lol, but to say she wouldn be happy would be an understatent lmao she recently caught me buying stuff on the side and went bonkers lol

Tidgy

first thing you will hear hear is 'so and so mapped my car and now its blown up, what can i do about it?'

Rescue Dude

iTrader: (11)

I had to go out this morning.

Hope I haven't missed anything..........

Megaman

iTrader: (4)

The other issue is having the self control to hold back the temptation to keep throwing more power at the car. Just another 0.5bar boost, just a bit more power here to smooth it off... I wonder what the car will feel like if I try this... etc. Lets face it this thread is going to be good business for the likes of RCM/ScoobyClinic who will end up picking up the pieces lol.

Tidgy

at least 3 of the 7 cars that went bang from the last round got sold as rollign shelfs cos owner couldn't afford to have them rebuilt.

At the end of the day its all down to you pays your money you takes your choice, but past history doesn't show self mapping or cheap mapping to be a good idea.

pimmo2000

iTrader: (6)

6 pages and not posts by the mapping men ?

powerwrx

iTrader: (11)

post 131

bustaMOVEs

iTrader: (31)

Intresting subscribed

sweden

iTrader: (2)

Interesting thread with varied options as expected for me I'll say hats off to you matey it's something I've seriously considered doing, having spent ages searching for a specialist mapper/firm that could map my R over here only to have them erase my track map and cost my over 1k, I have a scooby that I can hardly use, and trying to get a guy from England to come over is doing my head in, I have the cable and simtek software to map her my self but its taking that step to do it lol

matt-c

iTrader: (5)

Because at the end of the day, the OP is right, most of us could map our own cars if we could be bothered.

Most of us cannot be bothered and are happy to shell a few quid (very little compared to the money spent on mods) for the confidence it will be done right.

Mappers charge what they do because people are prepared to pay, there is a market. Good luck to them, and good luck if you want to learn it yourself.

Also, to have controlled conditions you need a RR and we are not going to start installing RR's in our garages are we.

Pavlo

Some interesting points. But this thread seems to be based on the experience of a few weeks and one car by one person. Mapping for a decat and fuel pump isn't so bad, mapping an 08 hatch with 30 odd tables linked to boost control and DBW throttle and your one cars experience won't get you far. Most of the hard work is done for you, ie making the car run at all, making it idle, finding a good injection end angle, configuring knock control etc.

These days good mappers will be able to set up a blank standalone ECU, make all the functions that you take for granted, work and make the car drive properly. If that expertise costs £350 for arguments sake and takes 3-4 hours, then someone wanting that time for them selves for their OEM ecu remap is going to have to pay the same for that expert.

Experienced mappers will have mapped 1000's of cars and run into every sort of problem imaginable, and when you take your freshly taken apart and put back together car to get mapped, you might need all the experience to get it done properly. As I have learnt, there is much more to the subject than initially meets the eye, and someone would be incredibly foolish to think they have learnt everything in a few weeks on one car running 330hp or whatever.

As an aside, has Toneh used det cans to see if his car is running into detonation that the factory ECU is ignoring?

Moley

iTrader: (9)

Like i said earlier in the thread, most of them were at TOTB yesterday, so the links of Andy Forrest and Simon (JGM) are probably on their way home today, so are unlikely to be on here.

toneh

iTrader: (1)

Yes mate I have got det cans
You can throw as many vehicles and scenarios in as you like but regardless of how many cells or what perameters the process is still the same

MattyB1983

iTrader: (51)

Not sure about Andy as his page doesn't show when he was last on but Simon has been on today.

johnfelstead

You could say that about anything computer related (thats all an ECU is), it eventually boils down to 0's and 1's

It doesn't change the fact that to get safe and performant results, you need a deep understanding of your subject. (not just the ECU, but the entire engine package and often the whole car package)

Your current experience, no disrespect, but it's negligable. I'll do the equivelent miles you've stated as showing your mapping is good, in a weekend sometimes, spank the **** off the car with all the load that involves, then expect to drive it home, usually with a trophy in the boot. To do that i rely on the services of people who know their trade intimately, that includes them knowing what you can get away with on a "normal" persons car and what you have to do to cope with someone who will be pushing the thing to within an inch of it's life.

I'm not a stupid chap when it comes to what makes cars work, i build some pretty serious racing cars for a living, but when it comes to engine mapping, i stand back and let the experts do their thing, it's worth every penny and has served me well over more than a decade of spanking these cars on track and on the road.

Could i map my own car? Easily yes if i put some thought to it. Could i get the results the good guys do? Not a chance, certainly not in the time i have available or with the safety and performance they achieve for me.

Nothing wrong with having a go yourself, but frankly your thread title is a joke.

scoobyman2012

iTrader: (1)

good points , but most of these subaru mappers seem to charge the same price for a high modded car to a car with very basic mods like turbo/ exhaust change ,

when I know most are just loading a base map they already have then tweaking from there (nothing wrong with that)

just seems very exspensive for little work , even my porche cost less to remap than my sti and the guy even had his own dyno cell and spent the whole day on it ,

then when i had the sti mapped for a turbo/header , injector change , it cost £300+ and took less than 2 hours , and was road mapped aswell ,

I have since learnt to do my own mapping , like other have no interest in mapping other peoples cars for money , just enjoy tuning my own cars,

yes probably takes me alot longer than a pro and I had too buy det cans and a afr gauge , but for the basic mods I do , it was worthwhile

Mr J

Yeah that is the problem in Sweden, very few good mappers.
And the few ones that can map, don't really know much about Subarus.


I mapped my cars eariler, but new engine build etc that cost +£20k, it fells like small money to get for ex Paul or Andy over compared to not getting the power I want or a blown engine.


Don't think many guys see the benifit of having a lot of good mappers that have doen 1000cars on there own, + been building a high powerd car on there own.

That biggets problem with a mapper that can dial in cars, but sosen't know of anything about that type Sbarus in this case.

Think I helped, +20 guys having problem when mapping.

If it were some one like paul or Anyd mapping, they would have know why the car missfires etc.

As I don't know DBW cars can't comment on that.
Can say mapping a classic with a link isn't that hard, it's a learing experince(like rough idl'e etc ) Same can be said for mapping a autronic pnp on a classic.
Looking on the Syvecs software was something diffrent though...


As on those ecu you can do live changes, on open soruce I not sure.....
Although been thinking of touching the old Forester 2.5Xt maps, but if I bringa Uk mapper over it can be done transporting him

tim's wrx

No problem! If you don't have the time for DIY then go to a "professional". Not a lot different from other DIY activity. Lots of posters on this site seem to think that the best deal is the one which costs the most - "you get what you pay for" and "what does it matter what you pay f you get peace of mind" (usually "piece" of mind!) and such like. Not sure what point you're trying to make anyway and I doubt the description of your driving techniques applies to everyone on this site - each to their own!!

chet123

iTrader: (7)

interesting thread, although I would trust my mapper/mapper alike who are skilled and knowledgable in what they do day in day out.

My mate has a friend who owns a skyliner and maps/tweaks his own car as and when he wants. The guy doesnt do it for a living, he is no mechanic, or a mapper but does it as a hobby so must have downloaded or have access to relevant software. If he can do it why cant anyone else if you know what you are doing.

I know recently he bought a Mazda MX5 as a toy and even mapped that to over 300 bhp.

Subscribed

Carlh

You wouldnt get a "mate" around to build an extension on your house would you, just because he's built his own?

You just as well, chip in with all your mates and hire your plane to go on holiday as it'll be cheaper to fly it yourself than pay for a pilot....

stuart69

iTrader: (1)

Not sure what your point is either

SoNiCa

Everyone can map his own car with an average iq level, desire and interest.

If you start experimenting now on your own car and gain experience in time, you will lose 100 X money and time to map your car.

You will need 5 things,
- experimental car. (probably yours)
- tuning tools
- tones of fuel.(yes tones)
- time. (much time much better)
- knowledge

Paying off 400 £ is easy, very cheap and most reliable way.

I am not a commercial tuner. Tuning the cars is fantastic but dealing with ppl is not. I'm doing this for fun not for life. I start to tune my car 8 years ago. Its now 200K with the stock EJ20K oem engine pushing close to 380-400 hp. I mean you can do it. BUT If we have a reputable tuner here I AM SURE I would pay for tuning rather than learning .

SoNiCa

And do not compare apples and oranges.
There are the tuners loading maps to your cars and there are the Supertuners doing the maps and showing their skills.

You can't blame any tuner for a blown engine but a supertuner would stay away from your car if your engine is willing to dead. And if he had a real mistake on a tuning session sure he will help you to recover.