The great mapping rip off
30 July 2012, 11:44 PM
#272
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Ok I'll check it over , if it stops folk hopping and jumping and there total disbelief lol
then what ?
I can't do much more map wise
idea How about I bring it to you , no mapping , hook it up and power run ( I'll pay obviously )
Now that would be interesting to post the results back up
Who votes for that ?
then what ?
I can't do much more map wise
idea How about I bring it to you , no mapping , hook it up and power run ( I'll pay obviously )
Now that would be interesting to post the results back up
Who votes for that ?
30 July 2012, 11:49 PM
#273
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Have you driven hard on track with your tune?
If not, it is well worth doing, you will learn a huge amount about the limits of your tune.
When I started mapping commercially I developed base maps with the craziest driver I knew and we proved them around Knockhill.
If not, it is well worth doing, you will learn a huge amount about the limits of your tune.
When I started mapping commercially I developed base maps with the craziest driver I knew and we proved them around Knockhill.
30 July 2012, 11:58 PM
#275
I am pretty sure you can do much more map wise.
Ok I'll check it over , if it stops folk hopping and jumping and there total disbelief lol
then what ?
I can't do much more map wise
idea How about I bring it to you , no mapping , hook it up and power run ( I'll pay obviously )
Now that would be interesting to post the results back up
Who votes for that ?
then what ?
I can't do much more map wise
idea How about I bring it to you , no mapping , hook it up and power run ( I'll pay obviously )
Now that would be interesting to post the results back up
Who votes for that ?
31 July 2012, 12:05 AM
#276
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Tracks are the real tester for any car , I think my brakes would melt way before the pistons
I used to race bikes and I know too well how circuits take there toll
Im really up for trying to get it on the rr , preferably by someone on here so we can post the results of my efforts back up , wether they be good or bad
I like a challenge and at the moment I would certainly say I'm the underdog , I'm in Nottingham but will travel if needs must unless anyone can suggest a suitable adjudicator close to me that will post back up on here ?
31 July 2012, 12:08 AM
#277
So the dyno will look at about 5-10% of the main fuel and ign maps, and the last column of the boost maps at WOT, what about the rest?
Calibrating the whole ECU is about so much more than the dyno chart, but of course it gets all the attention.
Calibrating the whole ECU is about so much more than the dyno chart, but of course it gets all the attention.
31 July 2012, 12:11 AM
#278
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I'm not doubting your knowlege at all mate
But I think my mods are gonna limit me more than my current map , plus I don't want to push it too close I'm only on a standard motor and my box and diff are protesting as it is
I may seem a little mad but I would love to see what I've done posted up
Could be good could be bad , who knows
But I think my mods are gonna limit me more than my current map , plus I don't want to push it too close I'm only on a standard motor and my box and diff are protesting as it is
I may seem a little mad but I would love to see what I've done posted up
Could be good could be bad , who knows
31 July 2012, 12:28 AM
#283
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I personally am very happy with my mapper as he is a top guy who works hard and tirelessly to help wherever he can. He has even given me advise against spending money with him on things that he thinks are unnecessary or won't do what I want. All map tweaks have been a reasonable hourly rate. All in all a top guy who I have no reservations about recommending to anyone.
Do I think that his initial fee was expensive yes but that's more cause I'm a tight g!t then anything else.
Do I think that his initial fee was expensive yes but that's more cause I'm a tight g!t then anything else.
31 July 2012, 12:29 AM
#284
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If I'm good at wot and good on closed loop its not gonna be a million miles out for the rest I'm sure , I know that the fuel maps not linear but if your good at the bottom and good at the top I'm sure if you have a smooth progression it's not gonna be such a disaster ?
31 July 2012, 12:30 AM
#285
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I personally am very happy with my mapper as he is a top guy who works hard and tirelessly to help wherever he can. He has even given me advise against spending money with him on things that he thinks are unnecessary or won't do what I want. All map tweaks have been a reasonable hourly rate. All in all a top guy who I have no reservations about recommending to anyone.
Do I think that his initial fee was expensive yes but that's more cause I'm a tight g!t then anything else.
Do I think that his initial fee was expensive yes but that's more cause I'm a tight g!t then anything else.
31 July 2012, 12:38 AM
#286
I'm not having it mapped , power run , a/f check and any sighns of det
Should confirm the basics , I,e if I'm mad and it's gonna blow , or mapping is as easy as I think !
Should confirm the basics , I,e if I'm mad and it's gonna blow , or mapping is as easy as I think !
There is nothing wrong with tweeking. mapping it yourself. But you cant go and call mappers Rip off merchants because it is possible to access the ecu your self. If i had a Bog standard car with an Exhaust i might be tempted, but when you start to spend money on your car then paying an Expert, well its small money in the scheme of things. Think of the price of pistons, rods Blocks etc etc when you have buried 10 or 15k in an engine Pauls, Andys, Simons fees are tiny in the scheme of things.
Think of what a main dealer charges to have an apprentice work on your car.
Think of the risk that the mappers put them selves in when road mapping a car.
Then as said above somewhere, there is the tech info before and after mapping, the help and info is worth the fee alone,
i cant explain how much advice and help i have got from these guys and its annoying to see the stupid title..
Last edited by kenc; 31 July 2012 at 12:39 AM.
31 July 2012, 12:40 AM
#287
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Please stop it , opinion does seem divided on the levels of skill required in mapping but please , supertuners , why oh why are folks hell bent on elevating certain mappers to a god like status
Some are very good at what they do I agree , and so they should be with the amount of time they've been doing it
But supertuners , what next super turbo fitters ,
It's becoming embarrassing now
Some are very good at what they do I agree , and so they should be with the amount of time they've been doing it
But supertuners , what next super turbo fitters ,
It's becoming embarrassing now
Yes there are the Supertuners and they are not very crowd. I don't want to talk that much in this thread as I don't see myself as a tuner but you should know that the price they charge is normal for the real tuners. They know what they do so you pay for this. If I was a commercial tuner I would never tune a Syvecs or Motec for that money. really! I think the prices should be based on the car and setup.
But you are right. I know most of the 'tuners' loading %10 leaned %10 ign. advanced base maps(like chip companies) and yes they often work as well (sometimes not) but every car is unique and should be mapped on the road with the mapper inside the car. And being in car that you don't know the driver is not good and very risky as well.
I am a hobbyist and I love to learn. Don't pay attention to the people that you gonna blow your engine. You don't need to worry if you know what are you doing. Read and ask. Know and practice.
In this month I have been requested to tune Supra with GT45 and a tube chassis beetle with GT35 charged Subaru engine. I just runaway. Tuning these types of cars on the road are hard and very risky process. I am sure I would do better then 'tooners' but why do i risk myself as i'm doing this at hobby level. For passion? No I don't like to turn hobbies into struggle.
31 July 2012, 12:45 AM
#288
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So you basically need a RIP OFF Mapper to check your car over for you lol???
There is nothing wrong with tweeking. mapping it yourself. But you cant go and call mappers Rip off merchants because it is possible to access the ecu your self. If i had a Bog standard car with an Exhaust i might be tempted, but when you start to spend money on your car then paying an Expert, well its small money in the scheme of things. Think of the price of pistons, rods Blocks etc etc when you have buried 10 or 15k in an engine Pauls, Andys, Simons fees are tiny in the scheme of things.
Think of what a main dealer charges to have an apprentice work on your car.
Think of the risk that the mappers put them selves in when road mapping a car.
Then as said above somewhere, there is the tech info before and after mapping, the help and info is worth the fee alone,
i cant explain how much advice and help i have got from these guys and its annoying to see the stupid title..
There is nothing wrong with tweeking. mapping it yourself. But you cant go and call mappers Rip off merchants because it is possible to access the ecu your self. If i had a Bog standard car with an Exhaust i might be tempted, but when you start to spend money on your car then paying an Expert, well its small money in the scheme of things. Think of the price of pistons, rods Blocks etc etc when you have buried 10 or 15k in an engine Pauls, Andys, Simons fees are tiny in the scheme of things.
Think of what a main dealer charges to have an apprentice work on your car.
Think of the risk that the mappers put them selves in when road mapping a car.
Then as said above somewhere, there is the tech info before and after mapping, the help and info is worth the fee alone,
i cant explain how much advice and help i have got from these guys and its annoying to see the stupid title..
31 July 2012, 12:48 AM
#289
It's easy to make the car not blow up! Making the car give the best power while not blowing up is more difficult, and making it drive well in all environmental conditions despite mapping in just one is just another challenge.
If you want it to not blow up, get fuelling between 10.5 and 11.5:1 afr, avoid det, pile on some boost with flat duty cycle still avoiding det, think to yourself it feels fast and presto, you're a mapping god!
Then do it properly.
Honestly it may well be quite alright, but you're posting like you know it all and you've just scratched the surface, you really have. If you had created the VE map used in your SD hack from scratch that would have been better, but really you've taken someone else's base map and tweaked it to feel about right while running nice and safe.
If you want to see how you've done, take it to a rolling road and buy yourself an hours running so you can do some testing. See how much power you've got, and how far off the mark you think you are, then see if you can optimise it to make some more power whilst remaining safe. Get that WOT fuelling spot on, during spool up and then right through to peak RPM. Then there is all the part throttle stuff and midrange boost work to check. If you can do all of that and it's still looking good and driving right, well done you've mapped one car.
I've not stopped learning, and the moment you think you know it all you're done for.
If you want it to not blow up, get fuelling between 10.5 and 11.5:1 afr, avoid det, pile on some boost with flat duty cycle still avoiding det, think to yourself it feels fast and presto, you're a mapping god!
Then do it properly.
Honestly it may well be quite alright, but you're posting like you know it all and you've just scratched the surface, you really have. If you had created the VE map used in your SD hack from scratch that would have been better, but really you've taken someone else's base map and tweaked it to feel about right while running nice and safe.
If you want to see how you've done, take it to a rolling road and buy yourself an hours running so you can do some testing. See how much power you've got, and how far off the mark you think you are, then see if you can optimise it to make some more power whilst remaining safe. Get that WOT fuelling spot on, during spool up and then right through to peak RPM. Then there is all the part throttle stuff and midrange boost work to check. If you can do all of that and it's still looking good and driving right, well done you've mapped one car.
I've not stopped learning, and the moment you think you know it all you're done for.
31 July 2012, 12:56 AM
#290
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Also being a hobbyist is good when it comes to asking questions to the tuners 
I have asked tones of questions to Andy.F, Pavlo, John, Simon, Bob Rawle, Pat and even Bob Norwood I still don't hesitate to ask. Thanks to them for answering my questions and sharing their knowledge.
Here is the motto written by Pat 6-7 years ago.
I have asked tones of questions to Andy.F, Pavlo, John, Simon, Bob Rawle, Pat and even Bob Norwood I still don't hesitate to ask. Thanks to them for answering my questions and sharing their knowledge.Here is the motto written by Pat 6-7 years ago.
You may not have lost it yet, but you will. Sure as the sun is going to rise in the morning. It may not happen tomorrow. It may not happen for a year. It may not happen for ten years, but it will happen. Nothing is infallible. Nothing is unbreakable, and eventually something will break, and it is a soul destroying moment...
31 July 2012, 01:02 AM
#291
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It's easy to make the car not blow up! Making the car give the best power while not blowing up is more difficult, and making it drive well in all environmental conditions despite mapping in just one is just another challenge.
If you want it to not blow up, get fuelling between 10.5 and 11.5:1 afr, avoid det, pile on some boost with flat duty cycle still avoiding det, think to yourself it feels fast and presto, you're a mapping god!
Then do it properly.
Honestly it may well be quite alright, but you're posting like you know it all and you've just scratched the surface, you really have. If you had created the VE map used in your SD hack from scratch that would have been better, but really you've taken someone else's base map and tweaked it to feel about right while running nice and safe.
If you want to see how you've done, take it to a rolling road and buy yourself an hours running so you can do some testing. See how much power you've got, and how far off the mark you think you are, then see if you can optimise it to make some more power whilst remaining safe. Get that WOT fuelling spot on, during spool up and then right through to peak RPM. Then there is all the part throttle stuff and midrange boost work to check. If you can do all of that and it's still looking good and driving right, well done you've mapped one car.
I've not stopped learning, and the moment you think you know it all you're done for.
If you want it to not blow up, get fuelling between 10.5 and 11.5:1 afr, avoid det, pile on some boost with flat duty cycle still avoiding det, think to yourself it feels fast and presto, you're a mapping god!
Then do it properly.
Honestly it may well be quite alright, but you're posting like you know it all and you've just scratched the surface, you really have. If you had created the VE map used in your SD hack from scratch that would have been better, but really you've taken someone else's base map and tweaked it to feel about right while running nice and safe.
If you want to see how you've done, take it to a rolling road and buy yourself an hours running so you can do some testing. See how much power you've got, and how far off the mark you think you are, then see if you can optimise it to make some more power whilst remaining safe. Get that WOT fuelling spot on, during spool up and then right through to peak RPM. Then there is all the part throttle stuff and midrange boost work to check. If you can do all of that and it's still looking good and driving right, well done you've mapped one car.
I've not stopped learning, and the moment you think you know it all you're done for.
I can't get much more power , my mods won't let me ,,, my box and diff are not happy now and since the mods are rapidly deteriorating , I don't need any more power at this moment in time ,,,, what do you want me to say , try and take it to the max , that's just daft and asking to break somthing , I'm willing to take my car within reason wherever ,I'll have it put on the dyno and a power run , I don't want it tweaking ,or more power , or smoother
I've been through this a million times with people , I'm happy with it as it is , dyno it , drive it whatever , post the results of my car and my mapping for all to see
Like I said it could be good or bad ,
As for know it all I know very little , but I do know my own cars , I just don't know what to say , why can't people grasp the fact I'm happy with how my car is , the boost is fine , spools a little later than an 04 but that's to be expected , I'm at a loss like I've said to the Americans. , please tell me what do you want me to say ?
Last edited by toneh; 31 July 2012 at 01:11 AM.
31 July 2012, 01:16 AM
#292
When someone pays me to map their car, they are completely expecting it to be "taken to the max" yet at the same time they want to be safe and not blow up. That's exactly what they pay for.
If I use a base map, I'm at least using MY base map!
You may be happy with your result, but I'm not trying to please you! Reputable mappers should ideally be trying to provide the best map, not just one that's going to keep the average hooligan happy.
How do you know you can't get more power? How do you know you can't get another 20hp after peak power where it might currently drop off? how do you know you can't get another 10ftlb from a different AFR and timing combination at peak torque? How do you know you can't get some more power at high RPM by losing a tiny bit in the midrange? How do you know you can't keep the same power that you currently have but get an extra 20 miles out of a tank of petrol and save yourself a few £100 over the course of the year?
If you're happy then good for you, but don't please don't judge us professional mappers by your standards.
If I use a base map, I'm at least using MY base map!
You may be happy with your result, but I'm not trying to please you! Reputable mappers should ideally be trying to provide the best map, not just one that's going to keep the average hooligan happy.
How do you know you can't get more power? How do you know you can't get another 20hp after peak power where it might currently drop off? how do you know you can't get another 10ftlb from a different AFR and timing combination at peak torque? How do you know you can't get some more power at high RPM by losing a tiny bit in the midrange? How do you know you can't keep the same power that you currently have but get an extra 20 miles out of a tank of petrol and save yourself a few £100 over the course of the year?
If you're happy then good for you, but don't please don't judge us professional mappers by your standards.
31 July 2012, 01:37 AM
#293
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When someone pays me to map their car, they are completely expecting it to be "taken to the max" yet at the same time they want to be safe and not blow up. That's exactly what they pay for.
If I use a base map, I'm at least using MY base map!
You may be happy with your result, but I'm not trying to please you! Reputable mappers should ideally be trying to provide the best map, not just one that's going to keep the average hooligan happy.
How do you know you can't get more power? How do you know you can't get another 20hp after peak power where it might currently drop off? how do you know you can't get another 10ftlb from a different AFR and timing combination at peak torque? How do you know you can't get some more power at high RPM by losing a tiny bit in the midrange? How do you know you can't keep the same power that you currently have but get an extra 20 miles out of a tank of petrol and save yourself a few £100 over the course of the year?
If you're happy then good for you, but don't please don't judge us professional mappers by your standards.
If I use a base map, I'm at least using MY base map!
You may be happy with your result, but I'm not trying to please you! Reputable mappers should ideally be trying to provide the best map, not just one that's going to keep the average hooligan happy.
How do you know you can't get more power? How do you know you can't get another 20hp after peak power where it might currently drop off? how do you know you can't get another 10ftlb from a different AFR and timing combination at peak torque? How do you know you can't get some more power at high RPM by losing a tiny bit in the midrange? How do you know you can't keep the same power that you currently have but get an extra 20 miles out of a tank of petrol and save yourself a few £100 over the course of the year?
If you're happy then good for you, but don't please don't judge us professional mappers by your standards.
And please Ive never judged your standards , I think your standards seem very high tbh
The thread was I think generally mapping is a rip off
And for the best part I still do , you've explained why you charge and I accept your comments , but you never replied about the man in the van mappers and there's a few and to wether you think the customer is getting good value
And fact some mappers are simply map tweakers nothing more and you know damn well
Now I know you are experienced no doubt but for you to say judge by my standards is a little silly , I mess with my car at weekends for fun and a hobby , but when you've stood face to face with a known tuner who had posted on here and said to him I'm running carberry rom and his response is what's that and how does it work and is it just in your standard ecu , what do you expect me to think ,,, he maps cars for a living ! Get my point how the hell can he charge what he does And I dare say it's not an isolated case
31 July 2012, 01:46 AM
#294
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Tuning cars is big business and like many businesses with a big name your paying for exactly that, the name and their trademark style.Our top mappers like Andy Forrest who produces 8-9 second cars and with many cars reaching over 200 mph then his name is obviously going to be big/legendary in the tuning world. Mappers with big names get all the work(mapping)so our mappers are not only good at mapping cars they're smart business men at the same time.Goodluck to all I'm sure many started of as a hobby or part time
31 July 2012, 02:02 AM
#295
When it comes to people paying money for their mapping, at any price, 10bhp is a big margin to be down on a 330hp car, if someone has a figure in mind it would be the difference between them going away really happy or going away wondering if they've picked the right mapper (regardless of why it may be 10hp down or even if it was realistic in the first place), I kit you not it's that big of a deal.
And you just don't seem to get that while you're happy with an "okay" map that keeps a smile on your face, I run a business and it needs people to get a great map and a good customer experience all time if at all possible in order to keep the work coming in the bills getting paid.
As for the Carberry rom, I haven't ever used it, and I didn't know about it till recently, but that's besides the point. As an Ecutek dealer and tuner I would generally use that for an OEM solution and steer people to a proper ECU if their specific application or wants would benefit from it. I'm in business, I have to provide a 100% solid solution, not a marginally tested hack that has a high probability of working. While it may well be good (and I have had good reports) it's good like John Bank's implementation of something similar for the EVO9 ecu, it's a compromise and everyone I know that's gone from that to a Syvecs has been happy with the upgrade. If people want an open source map there are professional tuners that deal with that and I don't have a problem with that.
It looks like commercial realities have passed you by, and I don't think I'm going to get anywhere trying to educate you on that one. As for mapping, if you want me to critique your work, I'll be happy to teach you some further mapping skills, at a price of course.
But if you think pro tuner mapping is expensive, just wait till you see the price of tuition!
And you just don't seem to get that while you're happy with an "okay" map that keeps a smile on your face, I run a business and it needs people to get a great map and a good customer experience all time if at all possible in order to keep the work coming in the bills getting paid.
As for the Carberry rom, I haven't ever used it, and I didn't know about it till recently, but that's besides the point. As an Ecutek dealer and tuner I would generally use that for an OEM solution and steer people to a proper ECU if their specific application or wants would benefit from it. I'm in business, I have to provide a 100% solid solution, not a marginally tested hack that has a high probability of working. While it may well be good (and I have had good reports) it's good like John Bank's implementation of something similar for the EVO9 ecu, it's a compromise and everyone I know that's gone from that to a Syvecs has been happy with the upgrade. If people want an open source map there are professional tuners that deal with that and I don't have a problem with that.
It looks like commercial realities have passed you by, and I don't think I'm going to get anywhere trying to educate you on that one. As for mapping, if you want me to critique your work, I'll be happy to teach you some further mapping skills, at a price of course.
But if you think pro tuner mapping is expensive, just wait till you see the price of tuition!
I agree you may be able to get that extra 10 bhp if it's come to that and I'm currently in a position to start splitting hairs and taking it to fine limits I'd be more than happy
And please Ive never judged your standards , I think your standards seem very high tbh
The thread was I think generally mapping is a rip off
And for the best part I still do , you've explained why you charge and I accept your comments , but you never replied about the man in the van mappers and there's a few and to wether you think the customer is getting good value
And fact some mappers are simply map tweakers nothing more and you know damn well
Now I know you are experienced no doubt but for you to say judge by my standards is a little silly , I mess with my car at weekends for fun and a hobby , but when you've stood face to face with a known tuner who had posted on here and said to him I'm running carberry rom and his response is what's that and how does it work and is it just in your standard ecu , what do you expect me to think ,,, he maps cars for a living ! Get my point how the hell can he charge what he does And I dare say it's not an isolated case
And please Ive never judged your standards , I think your standards seem very high tbh
The thread was I think generally mapping is a rip off
And for the best part I still do , you've explained why you charge and I accept your comments , but you never replied about the man in the van mappers and there's a few and to wether you think the customer is getting good value
And fact some mappers are simply map tweakers nothing more and you know damn well
Now I know you are experienced no doubt but for you to say judge by my standards is a little silly , I mess with my car at weekends for fun and a hobby , but when you've stood face to face with a known tuner who had posted on here and said to him I'm running carberry rom and his response is what's that and how does it work and is it just in your standard ecu , what do you expect me to think ,,, he maps cars for a living ! Get my point how the hell can he charge what he does And I dare say it's not an isolated case
31 July 2012, 02:31 AM
#296
Well I've read the first page and I get the gist of the thread. However here is my view.
Similar scenario for me now:
I had three quotes for some building work on my house which ranged from £24'000 to £30'000, however the 30k quote was more suitable as, the reputation was second to none, they clean up afterwards, price is fixed to pick up any post building work (sundries or anomalies ) and I know the guy has done similar work for friends whom are pleased with the results.
Therefore.......
So I pay to know I'll get the best results and to know that any post mapping issues will be taken care off, all of which Andrew Carr has done for me since 2009, and I keep going back.
Have I considered mapping myself? Yes but I haven't the time no inclination to take it on, I'll do what I'm good at (work) and pay some to do what they are good at (work) and if one of those is mapping who cares. The future may change my opinion but to date I value my mapper as a friend also as he is always at the end of the phone for advice, but maybe that's just me!
Rob
Similar scenario for me now:
I had three quotes for some building work on my house which ranged from £24'000 to £30'000, however the 30k quote was more suitable as, the reputation was second to none, they clean up afterwards, price is fixed to pick up any post building work (sundries or anomalies ) and I know the guy has done similar work for friends whom are pleased with the results.
Therefore.......
So I pay to know I'll get the best results and to know that any post mapping issues will be taken care off, all of which Andrew Carr has done for me since 2009, and I keep going back.
Have I considered mapping myself? Yes but I haven't the time no inclination to take it on, I'll do what I'm good at (work) and pay some to do what they are good at (work) and if one of those is mapping who cares. The future may change my opinion but to date I value my mapper as a friend also as he is always at the end of the phone for advice, but maybe that's just me!
Rob
Last edited by Rob Day; 31 July 2012 at 02:33 AM.
31 July 2012, 02:47 AM
#297
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Yet again the focus has been directed at me and yet again people back track
Ok yes I've mapped my own car
Yes I'm well pleased with it
Yes it runs well
No I've not done it in a conventional manner at all
And so the laughs slagging off and I'm mad comments start to come as usual
So Paul says you've got a lot to learn , I agree , but let me bring it down do we can see how it's doing And we can post it back up here
So instead of yeah make an appointment and bring it down and we will see how you've done
I get
Putting it on the dyno is not gonna prove much about your mapping , I agree but none the less I will still be happy to run it and prove at least I've mapped more power into it
(oh and on the way get accused of using a rip off mapper to check my car)
So on we go
The next is well it may well be ok but you're maybe not using all the power you could be and its maybe just a safe map
That's fine I'm not after more power I'm happy as it is
And on we go ,well you could maybe trade some midrange or move the power around and now we are getting as far as well you could get more mpg
Wtf
now I've said I'll take my car to Paul and have it run and posted up (and I'll pay obviously)
And all that's happend is well you could do this or you've got a lot to learn
Correct I have , ive had to learn how so full of s**t people are
All I wanted to do is take my car at my expense and effectively put it up to be tested fair enough for just power ( but isn't that what most on here do )
But no it's not that simple is it
Now the way I see it is I've got nothing to lose short of looking an idiot( which I'm pretty good at )
But on the other hand if my car is run and makes good power it ain't gonna look good a respected mapper posting up a DIY mapped amateur hobby car making good power ,is it
I've noticed there's always an if or but ,
It's all bollocks , full of smart ***** and sarcasm
I've offered my car for a dyno run I've invited folk to see it even drive it
What more could I do
I'm gonna carry on messing with my car but I've done with this forum b/s
Its not really my cup of tea
Sorry to the folks who messaged about how to get started , I'm not helping out
Anymore
Im just sticking to my own **** from now on
See ya
Ok yes I've mapped my own car
Yes I'm well pleased with it
Yes it runs well
No I've not done it in a conventional manner at all
And so the laughs slagging off and I'm mad comments start to come as usual
So Paul says you've got a lot to learn , I agree , but let me bring it down do we can see how it's doing And we can post it back up here
So instead of yeah make an appointment and bring it down and we will see how you've done
I get
Putting it on the dyno is not gonna prove much about your mapping , I agree but none the less I will still be happy to run it and prove at least I've mapped more power into it
(oh and on the way get accused of using a rip off mapper to check my car)
So on we go
The next is well it may well be ok but you're maybe not using all the power you could be and its maybe just a safe map
That's fine I'm not after more power I'm happy as it is
And on we go ,well you could maybe trade some midrange or move the power around and now we are getting as far as well you could get more mpg
Wtf
now I've said I'll take my car to Paul and have it run and posted up (and I'll pay obviously)
And all that's happend is well you could do this or you've got a lot to learn
Correct I have , ive had to learn how so full of s**t people are
All I wanted to do is take my car at my expense and effectively put it up to be tested fair enough for just power ( but isn't that what most on here do )
But no it's not that simple is it
Now the way I see it is I've got nothing to lose short of looking an idiot( which I'm pretty good at )
But on the other hand if my car is run and makes good power it ain't gonna look good a respected mapper posting up a DIY mapped amateur hobby car making good power ,is it
I've noticed there's always an if or but ,
It's all bollocks , full of smart ***** and sarcasm
I've offered my car for a dyno run I've invited folk to see it even drive it
What more could I do
I'm gonna carry on messing with my car but I've done with this forum b/s
Its not really my cup of tea
Sorry to the folks who messaged about how to get started , I'm not helping out
Anymore
Im just sticking to my own **** from now on
See ya
31 July 2012, 03:04 AM
#298
Your thread is tilted "the great mapping rip off"
So yes my comments are directed at you!
You want to map your own car, fine, that's great, but why the such arrogance is beyond me. Again I have only read page 1 and the post above, and i come to the conclusion you just want to tell the world youve learnt (learning) a new skill, not that mapping is a rip off!
You going to build a 2.1Stroker next and accuse Engine Tuner or API of being rip offs?.
Rob
Ps
Did you know ALDI do branded products that are relabelled as ALDI products for 1/3 the price
So yes my comments are directed at you!
You want to map your own car, fine, that's great, but why the such arrogance is beyond me. Again I have only read page 1 and the post above, and i come to the conclusion you just want to tell the world youve learnt (learning) a new skill, not that mapping is a rip off!
You going to build a 2.1Stroker next and accuse Engine Tuner or API of being rip offs?.
Rob
Ps
Did you know ALDI do branded products that are relabelled as ALDI products for 1/3 the price
31 July 2012, 03:45 AM
#299
Toneh,
This thread is not about your car, it's about you stating at the very beginning that me and others like me are ripping people off. I am very fairly but firmly here to tell you tht is not the case, not at least where myself and Zen Performance are concerned. The fact that you don't realise what most mappers actually do for much of their work is besides the point now.
I don't have anything to prove here. What I do and the value for money it comes were proved over the weekend with 5 of the cars I mapped scoring at TOTB, and a car I work very closely with (Lateral Performance "Banana") getting into the 8s on the quarter AND scoring in all 3 events on the day.
I have no personal interest in your car, and if you want to continue mapping that's great, but you've instantly created a hole for yourself as you will now be in the sights of any mapper that has read this thread (most Subaru mappers and some more besides i would guess). What were you thinking of when you decided to burn your bridges before you'd even reached them????
I am not about to prove you right in any way, that's down to you now.
This thread is not about your car, it's about you stating at the very beginning that me and others like me are ripping people off. I am very fairly but firmly here to tell you tht is not the case, not at least where myself and Zen Performance are concerned. The fact that you don't realise what most mappers actually do for much of their work is besides the point now.
I don't have anything to prove here. What I do and the value for money it comes were proved over the weekend with 5 of the cars I mapped scoring at TOTB, and a car I work very closely with (Lateral Performance "Banana") getting into the 8s on the quarter AND scoring in all 3 events on the day.
I have no personal interest in your car, and if you want to continue mapping that's great, but you've instantly created a hole for yourself as you will now be in the sights of any mapper that has read this thread (most Subaru mappers and some more besides i would guess). What were you thinking of when you decided to burn your bridges before you'd even reached them????
I am not about to prove you right in any way, that's down to you now.
31 July 2012, 07:37 AM
#300
i still think he has a point though. You say if its a map you did before , you only tweak for the latest mod. But that would mean (maybe your prices are different)
For one customer -
£550+vat for licence
£150+travel for map
£150 for any revisits due to mods (tweak)
Thats alot in my opinion. If it can be justified , we can all relax.
if its experience we are paying for , the first map cost is fair enough , but a tweak for a simple mod doesnt need all that experience to be paid for again.
Ok , maybe the whole maping isnt a ripoff , but some of it sure feels like it !
For one customer -
£550+vat for licence
£150+travel for map
£150 for any revisits due to mods (tweak)
Thats alot in my opinion. If it can be justified , we can all relax.
if its experience we are paying for , the first map cost is fair enough , but a tweak for a simple mod doesnt need all that experience to be paid for again.
Ok , maybe the whole maping isnt a ripoff , but some of it sure feels like it !