Luan Pra bang

If people all followed your lifestyle choice then mankind would die out and you need to be thankful that enough people are breeding to maintain tax revenues to keep you in your old age. Wether you like it or not there is a serious demographic shift happening in the UK and the country needs some babies, at the moment not enough people are breeding outside the scumbag classes.

bigsinky

i much preferred the fat lardy picture of you sitting nekkid at your 'puter. reminds me of how much of a fat **** I am myself

GlesgaKiss

Very interesting thread reading people's views on the subject. Totally agree with the sentiment that the wrong people are having kids. Quite hard to believe how many single teen mums there are nowadays. Still, I can understand why someone would want to impregnate a lot of them.

Demographics in this country are not going to be great, but there's too many bloody Africans and third worlders breeding. There's no food. You'd think they'd chill out a bit. It's as if they all want to end up fighting over a crumb.

Lydia72

And yet there are thousands of children in the care system.

My friend admitted to me she regrets having had them (three). I was stunned because she seems to be a great mother and I know she wouldn't think twice in giving her own life to save one of theirs but she said although she loves them to bits if she could go back in time she would never have had them.
I wonder how many people feel the same but daren't admit it?

davyboy

One less thanks to us

Adopting a child is one of the best things I have done.

Lydia72

Thinking you'll have someone to look after you in old age has to be the worst reason for having kids.
My parents ran a nursing home - plenty of residents there who were lucky if they got a birthday card let alone a visit from one of their children or grandchildren. Families are throwing granny in a home as soon as she starts pissing herself and then crossing their fingers she's not there that long after because they can see 'their' money being eaten up in fees.

Lydia72

Good for you
I know you have to jump through hoops to be approved - for good reason - so nice to hear of someone sticking with it.

EddScott

I worry sometimes because my other half really wants another and I don't - most of the time.

Sometimes I think I'd like another and the amount of toys I have - RC, trains, slot cars, Games Workshop many people have said I need a son.

Biggest reason not to is money. We are just getting by at the moment and although our house is 3 bed the spare is really a box room.

I have said this to people and its seen as an excuse. Mostly be people who are supported by the system to have their kids.

If we were more comfortable financially and could afford a slightly bigger house and afford for the other half to take another 5 year break from work then I'd probably go for another.

But then I'm also one of these people that think the world is going to get far far worse and I'm not sure if theres a "before it gets better". So although I have one child who I'm concerned for their future should I inflict the **** that I suspect is on the horizon on a loved one.


As for having children to look after you and to leave something to. We in the financial advice industry see enough "love ones" packed off to the home whilst the "loving children" encash all the investments and break all the trusts we put in place to protect these people and the money is gone - usually on a couple of properties because thats where the money is. We also have people actually scared that their children won't do the right thing by them and worried about what to do with their estate.

bigsinky

you better believe it. bend over while we stick this microscope up yer ****. we got asked everything...and i mean everything, both as individuals and as a couple. it was like the Stasi version of Mr & Mrs ffs

Ant

We're going to be trying for another after Xmas, we only want two. So just want to get them out the way while we're used to having no sleep

We can travel and do the rest when they're olderand higher up in our careers to Cheif burger flipper.

We're 26

dpb

I presume you are talking in jest, just thought I'd check

stilover

I know a few people who regret having kids. At least regret having them so young.

Pregnant by 16. 2nd one a couple years later, and maybe a 3rd a couple years later still.

Ask them what they did in there late teen, and through their Twenties?

While you'd have been out either at a night club, or driving around in your car with your mates, planning a Lads Hoilday in Ibiza. What were they doing? Sitting in on a night changing nappies, and looking after children.

At the minute, I can do what I want, when I want. If I had children, I couldn't do that.

Jamescsti

It's an interesting thread,
Up until 5 years ago (and I'm 31 now) I had no interest in getting married, having kids etc I had a good job, nice cars etc and was happy living the single life, I had no interest in having kids at all.

Now I'm married, home owner, dog and a first child on the way, I can still be honest and say even when me and the wife were trying for kids I wasn't bothered either way, when I saw the baby's first scan at 12 weeks however everything changed for me, I want my child to be born more than anything else.
Money is a worry even though both me and the wife earn good money, no benefits ever for either of us.

At the end of the day it's all personal choices, but to the op, don't worry about dying alone etc, you never know what's around the corner!

hodgy0_2

well done you

you and your wife have my utmost and sincere respect

i think it is a fantastic thing to do, and I would hope I would do the same if my circumstances were different

jonc

The opposite to that is having children when you're too old where it is more risky for the woman health wise and potentially "developmental" wise for the child. I know couple who left it late. The mother is in her forties and farther in his fifties and they find it difficult trying to keep up with their 8 year old in physical activities like a kick-about with a football in the park. Their only regret was not having children earlier as they would have liked a sibling for their only child. Me, I'd like to hope that my children to be completely independent by the time I retire.

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

Ah, I see:



TX.

dpb

I think we can do without that

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

Humour?

TX.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

We didnt really plan it out, we got married and when we were sat having a coffee on the slopes at Jackson Hole she announced she felt a bit sick, I kind of guessed there and then, before I knew it she had done a test and that was that, we went round to my mums and I told them I had heard that my mates brothers missus was expecting and my mum asked when, so I said, about 2 weeks before ours is due

So the first one arrived, then we decided that having kids was like pulling plasters off, best done quickly so we had a second and not long after she started a campaign for a third, I just gave in graciously as it was just easier that way, she said that another one wouldn't cost much more as we had all the stuff, I reminded her of this fact when she turned up with private school brochures, how is nine grand a year cheaper ?

I think we would have got bored otherwise, you run out of stuff to do, see and buy, I think having kids resets your expectations, childless couples get jaded about going for meals, going to clubs, the cinema, holidays, parties etc etc, but you have kids, two hours peace is bliss, a night out for a pizza and the cinema is a big deal which is kind of good in my book, sometimes you think that it will always be like that.

I remember when the kids were all little getting a bit despondent, we were skint, the house was knackered and someone was always ill, crying, puking, crapping, had nits, the ****s or going to casualty, I remember nobody at the time prepared to give us a night off as the brother in law was living with the in-laws and they wouldnt have them and my mum and dad would only ever have one or two, was still at the Police and they specialised in Big Brother tactics for investigating every email for racist content or some ****e, was a tough time, never got a full night sleep, end of tether kind of stuff but you just get on with it and it gets easier, now they are all in there teens and they are ok, we find them amusing and they are becoming young men, gaining some independence and we can go out again without getting a baby sitter.


It isn't for everyone, I kind of blundered into it and I am basically a selfish, lazy get, I think it has made my life more interesting and full, I still get a bit annoyed at being treated as a money tree and servant but at least now I can tell them where to get off, we are a bit better off now, my main frustration for the last 15 years was being told I couldn't have or do stuff, was just my salary and it comes in, it goes out but tonight I went out and spent £300 on diy stuff and new clothes, getting sick of spending it all on them, they can f*ck off for a while, its my turn to spend some of my wages.

I never really saw myself having kids but it happened, I am not kid minded but I think I have done my bit fairly well, I am not super dad but as far as I know they dont hate me, they are well feed, well clothed, well educated, polite, healthy, funny, well spoken and normal, cant ask for more really and the last 16 years have had a lot of fantastic moments to go with the hard work, kids are funny.

Having kids is optional, dont have them if you dont want, I think sometimes, some parents are so into wrapped up in it they ram it down peoples throats, some are jealous of their childless friends and feel like they have to tell them that they are missing out when actually its just trying to drag them into it, they are envious of the free time, holidays, disposable income, normal cars, not smelling of puke or crap. I remember my mate coming round to find me changing nappies and being skint, turned up in his new Fiat Coupe, with the first digital camera I had seen and a really small Nokia phone, but now he has the small child that keeps him awake at night, hahahahahahaha.

I am hoping they all gain financial independence at a reasonable age, im 41 so I hope before I get to 50 that they are all out of my rib.

Ant

superb post jacko

pimmo2000

iTrader: (6)

Lets group people then ..

8pm on a Saturday is late for me

There are a lot of selfish single people, those that use the parent bays get drunk and shout abuse on planes, kick off in the pub because you sat on their favourite stool, stand smoking in door ways, throw litter on the floor, don't wash their hands when they go the bathroom ..

My kids don't scream, they don't run wild. I wouldn't take them to a pub, to a restaurant maybe, if it were kid friendly, but in the same way I wouldn't expect to be accepted in the local pub with my children, singles shouldn't expect not to see kids in a family place.

It's all about the person, not their decision to have kids, selfish people will be selfish either way.

P1Fanatic

I'm hoping thats tongue in cheek as how on earth do you know they are single / don’t have children? “Sorry sir, I know you’re a bit agitated (as they are led off the plane in handcuffs) but can I just check, your single right?”

For some reason single on this thread also seems to mean you can’t have had children.

Dingdongler

I must say that is a bizarre attitude. If you don't want to have kids that's your decision of course but you seem almost bitter about those that do.

You actually feel that it's a real imposition in your life that there is a pram in the walkway of your pub or baby stuff in the over head locker of a plane?? The imposition to your time in the pub seems a real issue for you, is the pub really that an important part of your life?

Just remember the next time you see a doctor, or a pilot flies your plane, you walk across a bridge, etc etc these things are only possible because parents have probably spent twenty odd years of sacrifice to nurture a child to achieve these things. They wouldn't happen if people just sat in the pub all the time

Gobsmacked by your comments tbh

P1Fanatic

I think you have hit the nail on the head here. It amazes me that almost everyone I tell that I'm getting married immediately says “so how long before you have kids”. When I say never they are like “no, really stop messing around”. We don’t push our views on friends who are parents as each to their own but flip it around and the majority say oh but you don’t know what your missing out on just after they have moaned to you about their nipper pissing & crapping in their bed whilst the the other one puked over the carpet and phrases like “I cant remember the last time we had a holiday”. My fiancée says sometimes she feels embarrassed to talk about the last foreign holiday we went on or to bring out the photo album. I’m like don’t worry about it as they have no qualms in talking about their kids latest achievement and showing photos etc.

Some do get very wrapped up in it and often use the children as an excuse not to do things but if it’s a birthday for one of their children it’s almost seen as a given you will attend.

Again not everyone is like this so I’m not painting everyone with the same brush. Just the things you tend to notice as a non parent. We have plenty of friends with 1 or 2 young children who handle it very well and keep a good balance of socialising with their friends along with family life.

Devildog

We had friends like that. Don't see them anymore for that very reason. I also know people that think we can't have kids rather than accepting we've chosen not to.

Dingledonger, I think what Beef is getting at is parents who think thy have some God given right to expect you to put up with their kids and their crap irrespective of how much of an imposition that is. Personally I don't want someones snotty nosed child running around in my face if I'm out for a meal simply because the parents want some peace or are so selfish or blinded to the fact that not everyone adores said child as they do. The worst for me is kids screaming or generally being disruptive and the parents just ignore it and carry on regardless, rather than dealing with the issue at hand. Now I know not all parents are like that, but it seems more and more are.

It's about balance. Reasonable childless people will understand that it's not always easy for those that do have kids, but those that do need to understand that those without should not just be expected to put up with a whole host of crap just because they do.

Lee247

Excellent read, people. Good thread
I have two kids and can't imagine life without them. I've enjoyed every minute with them.
They are 18 and 21 now.
My best pal has no kids and bitterly regrets it. She is a lovely lady and would have made a fantastic Mum, but she found her partner late and the chance of children just never happened. She makes so much of mine which is great. On the other hand, her and her partner have retired early as thanks to inheritances etc, they have no need to work. She has said, they will sell the house and live off that when the current money runs out, as she has no one to leave the house too.
As said, it's a balance. She is happy enough and so am I.

hodgy0_2

weird -- I would say the exact opposite

all the childless couples I know, and I admit it is not that many, bitterly regret not having children.

yes they have more cash etc, but there are only so many impromptu shopping trips to Paris, or last minute ski weekends before it all start to seem a bit pointless

I would go far as to say that (imo) they have a deep sense of sadness about them

But childless couples tend to socialise with childless couple and vica versa

P1Fanatic

So now us non-parents should be extra grateful to those who have made the sacrifice for the rest of us and raised children to fill these important roles? As if that is even a reason why anyone decides to have a child, its more a consequence. With the best will in the world you have very little control over what career they end up doing let alone if they stay on the straight & narrow. They could as easily go down the wrong paths in life and be a dole dependant layabout. Yes if everyone decided no then eventually human life could peter out but let’s face it we are at the complete opposite end of that spectrum currently with gross overpopulation causing havoc to the planet and not enough jobs to go around.

ScoobyWon't

We have no kids. We just have an expensive dog. The £1500 for the pup was just the start.

It's the price of the estate car, the tent and camping gear, the wetsuits etc, dog insurance, the bigger house/garden.

I think I'd want at least £10K in the bank before trying for a child.

P1Fanatic

This kind of opinion does make me chuckle i.e. that non-parents live some sort of rich playboy lifestyle. I suppose it can be exaggerated this way when your knee deep in nappies and baby puke most of the time. But all this stuff you describe is the kind of things most people did and chose to do before they had children. Anyone would think we sit here just thinking of new things to do to while away the time in our sad lonely lives and **** all our money up the wall

These things are all nice but so are the simple things like reading a book, playing a board game with your partner, going for a walk etc. Yes we still socialise with parents whether that be with their children or without them. You can never know 100% how you will feel in the future but I am pretty sure that in 20 years time I wont be looking back feeling sorry for myself. By that time I hope to be retired and with friends whose kids are old enough to have flown the nest so the parents are free to join us on a nice holiday