Drivability of a high bhp impreza
13 January 2012, 12:19 PM
#32
I think the more power you have the more difficult it becomes to get that power down, so you sacrafice the drivability/ opportunities to drive it, in my experience and it's by no means what would be considered big power, going from circa 280bhp in a standard type r to 330bhp totally changed the characteristics of the car, and i think as a package the car was actually better and more fun, more predictable and a damm site more usable at around 300bhp and dare i say it that it also handled better with the standard 16's on as well.
I think there is a good reason subaru kept them around those figures as im sure during testing they will have tried out higher boost and power variants and maybe they discovered what most that go down the more power route discover, which is that the numbers are not the be all and end all as most hark back to a past vehicle with less power that was better to drive.
I suspect there will be a resurgance to less power and more drivability as more people realise that theres no point if you cant use it, and better to have something you can use every day as opposed to 3/4 times a year on a track at the risk of life and limb as well as the car.
Which is kind of where i'm at with my new blob.
I think there is a good reason subaru kept them around those figures as im sure during testing they will have tried out higher boost and power variants and maybe they discovered what most that go down the more power route discover, which is that the numbers are not the be all and end all as most hark back to a past vehicle with less power that was better to drive.
I suspect there will be a resurgance to less power and more drivability as more people realise that theres no point if you cant use it, and better to have something you can use every day as opposed to 3/4 times a year on a track at the risk of life and limb as well as the car.
Which is kind of where i'm at with my new blob.
Last edited by ditchmyster; 13 January 2012 at 12:22 PM.
13 January 2012, 12:43 PM
#33
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: surrey/west sussex
Posts: 3,189
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think the more power you have the more difficult it becomes to get that power down, so you sacrafice the drivability/ opportunities to drive it, in my experience and it's by no means what would be considered big power, going from circa 280bhp in a standard type r to 330bhp totally changed the characteristics of the car, and i think as a package the car was actually better and more fun, more predictable and a damm site more usable at around 300bhp and dare i say it that it also handled better with the standard 16's on as well.
I think there is a good reason subaru kept them around those figures as im sure during testing they will have tried out higher boost and power variants and maybe they discovered what most that go down the more power route discover, which is that the numbers are not the be all and end all as most hark back to a past vehicle with less power that was better to drive.
I suspect there will be a resurgance to less power and more drivability as more people realise that theres no point if you cant use it, and better to have something you can use every day as opposed to 3/4 times a year on a track at the risk of life and limb as well as the car.
Which is kind of where i'm at with my new blob.
I think there is a good reason subaru kept them around those figures as im sure during testing they will have tried out higher boost and power variants and maybe they discovered what most that go down the more power route discover, which is that the numbers are not the be all and end all as most hark back to a past vehicle with less power that was better to drive.
I suspect there will be a resurgance to less power and more drivability as more people realise that theres no point if you cant use it, and better to have something you can use every day as opposed to 3/4 times a year on a track at the risk of life and limb as well as the car.
Which is kind of where i'm at with my new blob.
Last edited by craigo; 13 January 2012 at 12:47 PM. Reason: typo
13 January 2012, 12:57 PM
#34
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: nr leeds
Posts: 2,473
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i`m running about 360-380 on a classic ra, wouldnt want much more, tricky in the wet, i have to be careful on the gas coming out of bends, always kicking out and thats with the diff set forward a click. ona track though its awesome, kicked much more powerful cars asses cos i still have response, i hate lag
13 January 2012, 01:05 PM
#35
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: surrey/west sussex
Posts: 3,189
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i`m running about 360-380 on a classic ra, wouldnt want much more, tricky in the wet, i have to be careful on the gas coming out of bends, always kicking out and thats with the diff set forward a click. ona track though its awesome, kicked much more powerful cars asses cos i still have response, i hate lag
why wont it handle the right way for you though ?
13 January 2012, 01:26 PM
#36
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Reading
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My old type R with a few suspension mods - arbs, alk, poly bushes everywhere handled MUCH better than when it wasw standard. it made the car a lot more enjoyable and the power although not lacking at 330bhp, would have been good to have more for the straights.
13 January 2012, 01:34 PM
#37
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (13)
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: here, there, everywhere
Posts: 3,111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
surley you just drive a car commensurate to road conditions, as a start.
only idiots would be trying to push a car in the wet with 250bhp or more at roundbouts ect or in "twisties"
ive no intention of driving mine hard on country lanes ect.
only time to push a car with decent power is in the dry, with full peripheral vision of ANY possible other traffic, unless you want to risk an accident of some description.
as each of my imprezas has got more powerful, each has been better than the last.
only idiots would be trying to push a car in the wet with 250bhp or more at roundbouts ect or in "twisties"
ive no intention of driving mine hard on country lanes ect.
only time to push a car with decent power is in the dry, with full peripheral vision of ANY possible other traffic, unless you want to risk an accident of some description.
as each of my imprezas has got more powerful, each has been better than the last.
13 January 2012, 02:40 PM
#38
Two different animals really, the type r is a fun car but more of a weekend toy which is what it was bought for, track days and hill climbs/sprints.
The blob wagon with the ppp, is a cracking real world everyday quick car and is as i have said before quicker in a lot of situations due to the gear ratios once moving but people don't like to hear that, it will be even quicker at around 330/350 bhp with a vf34, which i recon will be spot on, you live and learn.
The problem with the classics is they are a 20yr old design and things have moved on, as have i with regards to what i want from and to do with my car, it was an itch that needed scratching but i doubt i'll go back to a classic again.
Don't get me wrong i love the type r as a raw seat of the pants driving experience it's hard to beat, but faced with the economics of having a car sat in the garage 99% of the time i'd rather it be a fast bike that stands me at 2k instead of 20k and i can still do the track days with either.
So yes same name but different cars.
The blob wagon with the ppp, is a cracking real world everyday quick car and is as i have said before quicker in a lot of situations due to the gear ratios once moving but people don't like to hear that, it will be even quicker at around 330/350 bhp with a vf34, which i recon will be spot on, you live and learn.
The problem with the classics is they are a 20yr old design and things have moved on, as have i with regards to what i want from and to do with my car, it was an itch that needed scratching but i doubt i'll go back to a classic again.
Don't get me wrong i love the type r as a raw seat of the pants driving experience it's hard to beat, but faced with the economics of having a car sat in the garage 99% of the time i'd rather it be a fast bike that stands me at 2k instead of 20k and i can still do the track days with either.
So yes same name but different cars.
13 January 2012, 02:58 PM
#39
My 331bhp Type R is ample for B-road munching
For me, a well set up chassis and big brakes are 10 times more important than big power. Then comes throttle response - which the Simtek gives as it's map based rather than MAF based, and torque. This gives pleasureable well sorted driveability
Even whilst out on an intensive hooning session, I only ever usually use 3/4 throttle, and rarely full throttle
For me, a well set up chassis and big brakes are 10 times more important than big power. Then comes throttle response - which the Simtek gives as it's map based rather than MAF based, and torque. This gives pleasureable well sorted driveability
Even whilst out on an intensive hooning session, I only ever usually use 3/4 throttle, and rarely full throttle
13 January 2012, 05:37 PM
#41
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (41)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: in the woods...........555 Wagon Sqn
Posts: 13,347
Received 55 Likes
on
42 Posts
Evening all,
I have an interesting question for you tonight.
What is the drivability like for a high bhp impreza?
I used to have a type R running ~330 bhp and on a flat corner, i felt it had just about the right amount of power. How would this change if the same car had say 400 bhp? same again, but with 500 bhp? how do these figures correlate with what you could get out of the car in the real world?
Does going for a rotated GT30 get silly, i.e. nothing nothing nothing nothing MENTAL POWER, far too much for road use and probably too much for track use too? I have no experience with silly bhp figures so this is all just an idea to me.
Lastly I assume a newage will be more refined with big bhp. Same question again, but applied to a newage.
Go.
I have an interesting question for you tonight.
What is the drivability like for a high bhp impreza?
I used to have a type R running ~330 bhp and on a flat corner, i felt it had just about the right amount of power. How would this change if the same car had say 400 bhp? same again, but with 500 bhp? how do these figures correlate with what you could get out of the car in the real world?
Does going for a rotated GT30 get silly, i.e. nothing nothing nothing nothing MENTAL POWER, far too much for road use and probably too much for track use too? I have no experience with silly bhp figures so this is all just an idea to me.
Lastly I assume a newage will be more refined with big bhp. Same question again, but applied to a newage.
Go.
13 January 2012, 11:30 PM
#42
We're running 450bhp on our bugeye wagon and must say with OE suspension and brakes we wouldn't run this bhp,when we are went with this spec we are upgraded almost everything like brakes and suspension plus other bits,how it compares to our old spec wagon with 350bhp,massively improvement i would say,just twin pate its little bit nightmare in traffic,from this is just nice to drive like to work or on B-roads,car is used everyday
Jura
Jura
14 January 2012, 10:17 AM
#43
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (41)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: in the woods...........555 Wagon Sqn
Posts: 13,347
Received 55 Likes
on
42 Posts
We're running 450bhp on our bugeye wagon and must say with OE suspension and brakes we wouldn't run this bhp,when we are went with this spec we are upgraded almost everything like brakes and suspension plus other bits,how it compares to our old spec wagon with 350bhp,massively improvement i would say,just twin pate its little bit nightmare in traffic,from this is just nice to drive like to work or on B-roads,car is used everyday
Jura
Jura
14 January 2012, 10:36 AM
#44
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 2,239
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In what way is the twin plate a nightmare ? Is it the clacking noise that's "embarassing", or is it like a paddle clutch and hardly slips ?
I was thinking of putting one in but decided the uprated organic is OK for "road" use.
I was thinking of putting one in but decided the uprated organic is OK for "road" use.
14 January 2012, 01:28 PM
#45
Moderator
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The Terry Crews of moderation. P P P P P P POWER!!
Posts: 18,687
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
it does rather depend on what you mean by a high bhp car. 
However, they can be made to be exceptionally driveable, certainly more so than the standard car. As an example, from experience, a 2.5 car with SC 46 Turbo and the appropriate supporting mods will produce 460 hp and similar (if not higher) torque, but will produce one bar of boost well before 3000 rpm and peak torque at 3500 rpm or thereabouts. At this level you can get a clutch that will feel like an OEM item to drive. This kind of setup is lovely to drive.
The higher you go, the more difficult it can become to create a car that retains drivability, predominantly because you start to need beefier transmission etc, which can make the car hard to drive smoothly in traffic. It seems that the threshold at which one can start encounter drivability problems is continuously increasing though.
However, they can be made to be exceptionally driveable, certainly more so than the standard car. As an example, from experience, a 2.5 car with SC 46 Turbo and the appropriate supporting mods will produce 460 hp and similar (if not higher) torque, but will produce one bar of boost well before 3000 rpm and peak torque at 3500 rpm or thereabouts. At this level you can get a clutch that will feel like an OEM item to drive. This kind of setup is lovely to drive.
The higher you go, the more difficult it can become to create a car that retains drivability, predominantly because you start to need beefier transmission etc, which can make the car hard to drive smoothly in traffic. It seems that the threshold at which one can start encounter drivability problems is continuously increasing though.
14 January 2012, 02:51 PM
#46
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: nr leeds
Posts: 2,473
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
most of the roads around here are very greasy in the wet and cos boost is there almost immediately it just wants to slide, ive got a stiffened rear arb that probably doesnt help but it never understeers. on a track its awesome but i`m a ***** on the roads
14 January 2012, 07:02 PM
#48
If you are comparing to clutch on other cars(Punto like we are) its low bitting point,but you must just use to it
Jura
In what way its nightmare? If you are comparing to other clutches its nightmare,but you must just use to it..Clacking noise its OK,i like it alot.
Before you are jump to Twin plate,try before you buy
Jura
Jura
Before you are jump to Twin plate,try before you buy
Jura
15 January 2012, 12:25 PM
#49
Interesting post, I have a 290ish WRX on a 16G, I have had GTR's and the lag on the WRX is there and I notice it , Compared to a pals 2004 WRX on a TD04. The TD04 is a much better drive, but so boring as need more power. I had a forged 2.0 to go in, and then stopped then and went 2.5. The plan is 18 or 20G, and max out at sat 380ish. This I think will give me the kick in the pants I need and the drivability on the road. I could go for a larger turbo and bigger figures, but I think I would be back in the lag and out of tight corners , when I am in the wrong gear and someone in a TDi is pushing me to get out of the way ! just cant get the response out of a 2.0, hence the 2.5 route.
Don’t get me wrong is I was sort of meaning to go fast as opposed to dordle then 2.0 is ok, but for me I want the best of both worlds.
Don’t get me wrong is I was sort of meaning to go fast as opposed to dordle then 2.0 is ok, but for me I want the best of both worlds.
15 January 2012, 05:46 PM
#54
My 2.5 forged bug sti is currently running 450/460 and is great as an everyday driver,the twin plate is a bit harder 2 live with but its just a case of getting used 2 something different imo
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
cjquicksilver
Wanted
0
25 September 2015 11:17 AM
