Teachers' striking
17 June 2011, 08:49 PM
#61
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Teachers do moan alot though don't they ?My pal is a teacher and he works all day instead of talking so it means he gets all his work done in school hours and does not have to take any marking home. Its a pet hate of his how much time teachers waste in the day and then they moan about marking at home. If teachers manage their time at school better they have no work to take home.
Despite that, I do think they deserve a decent salary provided they are good teachers, the crap ones should be sacked with no chance to appeal.
Despite that, I do think they deserve a decent salary provided they are good teachers, the crap ones should be sacked with no chance to appeal.
17 June 2011, 10:12 PM
#62
Scooby Regular
Almost impossible to sack a crap Teacher ...... there are **** Teachers getting paid a fortune for next to nothing in output (same as any Profession, I suppose - but these directly ruin childrens education!).
We need to take a root and branch through the profession - wipe out the 'also-rans' .... oddly, you will find the poor Teachers sat in the NUT meetings!!
We need to take a root and branch through the profession - wipe out the 'also-rans' .... oddly, you will find the poor Teachers sat in the NUT meetings!!
17 June 2011, 10:20 PM
#63
Scooby Regular
17 June 2011, 10:26 PM
#64
The public sector really needs to wake up, smell the coffee and understand that the glory days are over and it's time to roll up their sleeves and get on with some hard work like the rest of us.
I'm all cut up by the proposed increase in pension contributions. To achieve such a pension myself would require a contribution of over 27% of my salary.
I'm all cut up by the proposed increase in pension contributions. To achieve such a pension myself would require a contribution of over 27% of my salary.
17 June 2011, 10:37 PM
#65
Well, I'd say let them strike and let the strike bring the whole country to a complete standstill, hopefully this will give the Government that final incentive to bring in measures to reform union laws to prevent Unions from striking in the future and holding the country to ransom. They deserve it if they think they can stick their heads in the sand and hope that £30bn pension hole will just disappear. Talk about biting the hands that feeds them!
17 June 2011, 11:11 PM
#66
SJ Skyline
I would be a shed load better off if the Govt hived me off into the private sector , moved over to an insurance system and paid me the private sector going rate for the work that I do......
My salary would jump at least £120 grand a year meaning I could put quite a lot into a pension
Shaun
I would be a shed load better off if the Govt hived me off into the private sector , moved over to an insurance system and paid me the private sector going rate for the work that I do......
My salary would jump at least £120 grand a year meaning I could put quite a lot into a pension
Shaun
18 June 2011, 08:34 AM
#67
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 2,239
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Almost impossible to sack a crap Teacher ...... there are **** Teachers getting paid a fortune for next to nothing in output (same as any Profession, I suppose - but these directly ruin childrens education!).
We need to take a root and branch through the profession - wipe out the 'also-rans' .... oddly, you will find the poor Teachers sat in the NUT meetings!!
We need to take a root and branch through the profession - wipe out the 'also-rans' .... oddly, you will find the poor Teachers sat in the NUT meetings!!
I am surprised that your vitiolic attack on teachers hasn't suggested that they are all paedophiles, as well as lazy, unprofessional and inexperienced in the "real world" jobsworths !
I notice there has been no response to my question as to why, if its such a sinecure, that you guys who are slagging the teachers off didn't become teachers - maybe lack of patience, lack of desire to do something helpful/positive to society, lack of academic ability ?? or just that its always easier to slag other people off from a position of ignorance.
Oh dear, what a sad life you must lead to go out of your way to try to cause more negativity and upset in the world.
18 June 2011, 08:46 AM
#68
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,329
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
18 June 2011, 09:41 AM
#71
I'll let you into a secret ............. there are 50 Teachers chasing every Vacancy at the moment!!!
3 years ago it was quite the opposite - then, we were desperate to get Teachers and would have to offer TLR Payments to attract them!!
Not now, now we can pick and choose AND are only offering 12 month contracts!!
They are not wanted in Industry - they couldn't cope with the hours and lack of leave - and they can't go to many Schools as the competition is high ........ not many will be hiring NUT and ATL Members who went on strike, that's for sure.
One of the questions at interview will be, "Did you make the children in your care suffer at your hands by striking on 30th June 2011?".
I will leave you to guess whether they will be getting jobs if the answer is, "Yes, due to my own greed I abandoned the children in my care on 30th June 2011"!!!!!!
3 years ago it was quite the opposite - then, we were desperate to get Teachers and would have to offer TLR Payments to attract them!!
Not now, now we can pick and choose AND are only offering 12 month contracts!!
They are not wanted in Industry - they couldn't cope with the hours and lack of leave - and they can't go to many Schools as the competition is high ........ not many will be hiring NUT and ATL Members who went on strike, that's for sure.
One of the questions at interview will be, "Did you make the children in your care suffer at your hands by striking on 30th June 2011?".
I will leave you to guess whether they will be getting jobs if the answer is, "Yes, due to my own greed I abandoned the children in my care on 30th June 2011"!!!!!!
18 June 2011, 10:51 AM
#74
Scooby Regular
should have gone bust by now
18 June 2011, 11:14 AM
#75
Guest
Posts: n/a
I'll help you out a bit. See ... http://www.moray.gov.uk/moray_standard/page_65797.html ... it's for a Scottish council but I'm sure you're not going to tell me that any English or Welsh councils had any figures other than '0' ...?
Dave
18 June 2011, 11:22 AM
#76
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 39,877
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Les
It's as Midlife said above, "Teaching and Learning Responsibility" payments .... these are paid for the most suspect of reasons in a lot of cases.
And amazing fact about TLR's - and something the Government should stamp out - is that they are paid for 3 years beyond where the Teacher stops doing the extra task!! - another glowing example of Teachers living in some surreal universe!!
The effect of this 3 year retention of the payment is that Teacher A can be awarded a TLR PaymeThanks for the explanation Pete. I agree with your feelings if that is going on, the extra three years can only be described as a fiddle to my mind.
I think that if the truth were known ,there is a lot of this sort of thing going on if you happen to be in the right "gardening club". I cannot see any honest justification for such procedures.
The best example of course is the scandal about MP's expenses where they were quietly given the encouragement to abuse the system to make up their salaries without the rest of us knowing about it.
Grossly dishonest behaviour towards the people of this country!
Lesnt, let's say of £12,500 ...... they then stop doing the task which generated that payment ...... so, Teacher B is given the task and the £12,500 TLR payment. Teacher A gets the £12,500 for three years and doesn't have to do a thing for it!!! You and I get stung for TWO TLR Payments - this can of course repeat itself to Teacher C and Teacher D .... it's used to top Teachers £35,000 Salary up by £12,500!!
We are being taken for a ride as Taxpayers and it's about time someone stopped the noses at the trough ................. and, to top it all off, they demand a better Pension than the rest of us!!
It's a disgrace!!
It's as Midlife said above, "Teaching and Learning Responsibility" payments .... these are paid for the most suspect of reasons in a lot of cases.
And amazing fact about TLR's - and something the Government should stamp out - is that they are paid for 3 years beyond where the Teacher stops doing the extra task!! - another glowing example of Teachers living in some surreal universe!!
The effect of this 3 year retention of the payment is that Teacher A can be awarded a TLR PaymeThanks for the explanation Pete. I agree with your feelings if that is going on, the extra three years can only be described as a fiddle to my mind.
I think that if the truth were known ,there is a lot of this sort of thing going on if you happen to be in the right "gardening club". I cannot see any honest justification for such procedures.
The best example of course is the scandal about MP's expenses where they were quietly given the encouragement to abuse the system to make up their salaries without the rest of us knowing about it.
Grossly dishonest behaviour towards the people of this country!
Lesnt, let's say of £12,500 ...... they then stop doing the task which generated that payment ...... so, Teacher B is given the task and the £12,500 TLR payment. Teacher A gets the £12,500 for three years and doesn't have to do a thing for it!!! You and I get stung for TWO TLR Payments - this can of course repeat itself to Teacher C and Teacher D .... it's used to top Teachers £35,000 Salary up by £12,500!!
We are being taken for a ride as Taxpayers and it's about time someone stopped the noses at the trough ................. and, to top it all off, they demand a better Pension than the rest of us!!
It's a disgrace!!
I think that if the truth were known ,there is a lot of this sort of thing going on if you happen to be in the right "gardening club". I cannot see any honest justification for such procedures.
The best example of course is the scandal about MP's expenses where they were quietly given the encouragement to abuse the system to make up their salaries without the rest of us knowing about it.
Grossly dishonest behaviour towards the people of this country!
Les
18 June 2011, 12:21 PM
#78
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Surrey/London borders.
Posts: 8,300
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
18 June 2011, 12:40 PM
#79
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Littlehampton
Posts: 2,427
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not wanted to get dragged into all the petty and obviously uninformed arguments in here as a Secondary School teacher myself can I ask the following?
Do You want YOUR children taught by 70 year olds? - this is what will happen as retirement ages go up due to reduced pensions.
As a personal note i went into teaching with a good degree with the students in mind. I chose to teach because I enjoy working with students, I weighed up the pay/conditions of teaching vs the private sector and although pay (at the time) was lower in teaching the pension scheme balanced this out. This is what the government changes mean to me (teaching for 10 years - entered profession at 22)
Monthly contributions up by £93
Retirement age up from 60 to 67.5 before full pension payable
Total potential loss of £220,633 over 25 years of retirement
Therefore I will be paying more to retire later and get less - I actually will struggle to make ends meet with the reduced income due to the increased contributions.
If you forget the baseline figures and just look at the changes, would you be happy if your private sector boss did the same to you?
Oh and Chip I'm not about to post my P60 but My salary is iro £41,000 after 10 years with a 2.1 (hons) degree plus Ma and QTS status (PGCE plus NQT year) - responsible for a team of 5 teachers and delivery of the Curriculum to all students in the school up year 10. Take home on this after contributions is around £2200 monthly (reducing to £2100 if pension changes happen).
Do You want YOUR children taught by 70 year olds? - this is what will happen as retirement ages go up due to reduced pensions.
As a personal note i went into teaching with a good degree with the students in mind. I chose to teach because I enjoy working with students, I weighed up the pay/conditions of teaching vs the private sector and although pay (at the time) was lower in teaching the pension scheme balanced this out. This is what the government changes mean to me (teaching for 10 years - entered profession at 22)
Monthly contributions up by £93
Retirement age up from 60 to 67.5 before full pension payable
Total potential loss of £220,633 over 25 years of retirement
Therefore I will be paying more to retire later and get less - I actually will struggle to make ends meet with the reduced income due to the increased contributions.
If you forget the baseline figures and just look at the changes, would you be happy if your private sector boss did the same to you?
Oh and Chip I'm not about to post my P60 but My salary is iro £41,000 after 10 years with a 2.1 (hons) degree plus Ma and QTS status (PGCE plus NQT year) - responsible for a team of 5 teachers and delivery of the Curriculum to all students in the school up year 10. Take home on this after contributions is around £2200 monthly (reducing to £2100 if pension changes happen).
Last edited by BlueBugEye; 18 June 2011 at 12:44 PM.
18 June 2011, 01:10 PM
#81
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Therefore I will be paying more to retire later and get less - I actually will struggle to make ends meet with the reduced income due to the increased contributions.
If you forget the baseline figures and just look at the changes, would you be happy if your private sector boss did the same to you?
I feel for you, but this is precisely what has been happening in the private sector for years. Where I work we had our final pension scheme closed entirely and punted into a defined contribution scheme which will pay only a fraction of what the final salary scheme would have, whilst having to put in a lot more. It's called the real world - was I happy about it? Of course not, but I'm glad I have a job and do a lot longer hours than an teachers I know.
I have no sympathy for the public sector now having to tighten their belts as well. However, it would be cheaper for starters to remove the 1m excess public sector workers hired through the last government's tenure and implementing pension changes more gradually.
Gordo
18 June 2011, 01:13 PM
#82
Scooby Regular
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Here, There, Everywhere
Posts: 10,619
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Being serious. Why should the public sector get to retire many years before the private sector workers can? And be on far more money too.
Watched the news this morning, and got annoyed at this bl00dy woman complaining that women are now being asked to retire at 65 instead of 60.
This will come into effect in 7 years time. According to this women, 7 years is not enough time to plan for retirement. So lets just keep it at 60 then.
18 June 2011, 01:14 PM
#83
Scooby Regular
18 June 2011, 01:20 PM
#84
Bluebugeye.......lets take a crude example. Opposite me in my office is a senior dental officer / clinical lead on a salary of about £60k He will have to work for 40 years to get his pension of £30k (50% salary). A headteacher on the same £60k only has to work for 30 years for a pension of £40k (75% salary).
So the NHS worker has to work for 10 years longer for £10k less pension a year and have to pay more in contributions........
I'm afraid that's why there is little sympathy around our gaff for striking teahers...
Shaun
So the NHS worker has to work for 10 years longer for £10k less pension a year and have to pay more in contributions........
I'm afraid that's why there is little sympathy around our gaff for striking teahers...
Shaun
18 June 2011, 01:50 PM
#85
Scooby Regular
Can you explain this?
You have to pay a bit more pension, you have to retire a bit later and you're losing £220K? I don't understand.
Let me put it this way.
You are guaranteed some sort of pension.
You know when you will be retiring with no concern over having to work well into your 70s like the growing majority of others.
If you become sick you are well looked after.
If you have a breakdown from not being able to cope with children you're well looked after.
Frankly, working in the public sector may not be what the best it could be but it's by far a more secure career than almost any private sector career.
As for the age issue - I'd rather my child taught by someone who has a reasonable idea of what the real world is like as apposed to someone who has always been in the education system either taught or teaching and seemingly slightly detached from reality.
You have to pay a bit more pension, you have to retire a bit later and you're losing £220K? I don't understand.
Let me put it this way.
You are guaranteed some sort of pension.
You know when you will be retiring with no concern over having to work well into your 70s like the growing majority of others.
If you become sick you are well looked after.
If you have a breakdown from not being able to cope with children you're well looked after.
Frankly, working in the public sector may not be what the best it could be but it's by far a more secure career than almost any private sector career.
As for the age issue - I'd rather my child taught by someone who has a reasonable idea of what the real world is like as apposed to someone who has always been in the education system either taught or teaching and seemingly slightly detached from reality.
18 June 2011, 01:56 PM
#86
Scooby Regular
This is the single most annoying thing about Teachers!!
For your information, 4 years ago I was told that I had to pay an EXTRA 6% into my Pension or it would close!!!
FFS when will you Teachers learn that you have had it so good for so long that you have lost all touch with reality!!
The fact is, those who have to work outside Education have been hit hard by this Pension issue MANY years ago!!
You have got off lightly, only asked to pay an extra 3% phased in over many years!!
Wake up.
Smell the coffee.
Do NOT let the children of this country down on 30th June 2011.
Stop being greedy - think of those paying your wages, and your Pensions!! YES, WE pay your pensions!! You don't think your pathetic contributions buy what you retire on - do you???
For your information, 4 years ago I was told that I had to pay an EXTRA 6% into my Pension or it would close!!!
FFS when will you Teachers learn that you have had it so good for so long that you have lost all touch with reality!!
The fact is, those who have to work outside Education have been hit hard by this Pension issue MANY years ago!!
You have got off lightly, only asked to pay an extra 3% phased in over many years!!
Wake up.
Smell the coffee.
Do NOT let the children of this country down on 30th June 2011.
Stop being greedy - think of those paying your wages, and your Pensions!! YES, WE pay your pensions!! You don't think your pathetic contributions buy what you retire on - do you???
18 June 2011, 02:02 PM
#87
Scooby Regular
Could you pm me the School name as this is unheard of ..... last year I was told that 12 Teachers had been dismissed, in total, for poor performance in 30 years!! YES, 30 years!!
So, you have had 4 in your school alone in 3 years? You are the stand out shining example and I would like to congratulate the school concerned, what was the name of it again?
The Teacher redundancies are voluntary! So, hardly count - as the Teacher WANTED to leave on a handsome package!
18 June 2011, 02:09 PM
#88
Scooby Regular
Oh and Chip I'm not about to post my P60 but My salary is iro £41,000 after 10 years with a 2.1 (hons) degree plus Ma and QTS status (PGCE plus NQT year) - responsible for a team of 5 teachers and delivery of the Curriculum to all students in the school up year 10. Take home on this after contributions is around £2200 monthly (reducing to £2100 if pension changes happen).
Your Line Management Responsibilities would warrant a TLR Band 1 maximum of £12,393.
You are, therefore, on £50,188 ...... it can be nothing else, in all honesty.
If you are getting £41,000 then you are being fleeced - we would be paying you £50,188.
Now, either we pay extremely highly - or you are being shafted!!
18 June 2011, 03:26 PM
#89
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 2,239
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The teachers in independant schools are working in a business and if there are not enough pupils, everyone takes a pay cut. I had one in the 1990 recession.
There is a huge amount of incorrect info on here - people are believing everything they read in papers !
Still it helps maintain the wind up effect.
Still no answer as to why you wingers did not go into teaching as its obviously such an easy job, with loads of money and benefits.
There is a huge amount of incorrect info on here - people are believing everything they read in papers !
Still it helps maintain the wind up effect.
Still no answer as to why you wingers did not go into teaching as its obviously such an easy job, with loads of money and benefits.