Teachers' striking
15 June 2011, 06:36 PM
#31
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As a teacher there are a few things people need to be aware of.
1) The responsibility - we have YOUR children in OUR care, that is a lot of responsibility, especially when arranging enrichment/trips etc. This multiplies ten fold when abroad.
2) We do not get a single penny for extra work. On top of working extra nearly every weekend, this is includes parents evenings, open evenings, trips, after school activities.
Neither do I. I'll be working all this weekend unpaid.
3) We get about 8 weeks holiday a year. Don't get me wrong, it's great. But not too much more than the average Joe.
So about double what most people get.
4) You never stop being a teacher. At the weekend, during a walk, on holiday - you have to aware of who you are and role model you play. Kids are everywhere.
It's been called a decent person. Most people are.
5) If teaching is easy and we're not entitled to fight for our rights then why aren't YOU a teacher? Come on in, the waters nice and warm. It's dead easy this lark...
6) 30k really that great?
It's more than most people get. So yes, it's a pretty good wage. Plus, what will your yearly final salary pension be? £20k pa? More?
My current pension is look at around £4-6K pa.
...oh, the maintenance of 30 kids all day who shout, swear and threaten to hurt you or send you to jail putting you off? Shame.
1) The responsibility - we have YOUR children in OUR care, that is a lot of responsibility, especially when arranging enrichment/trips etc. This multiplies ten fold when abroad.
2) We do not get a single penny for extra work. On top of working extra nearly every weekend, this is includes parents evenings, open evenings, trips, after school activities.
Neither do I. I'll be working all this weekend unpaid.
3) We get about 8 weeks holiday a year. Don't get me wrong, it's great. But not too much more than the average Joe.
So about double what most people get.
4) You never stop being a teacher. At the weekend, during a walk, on holiday - you have to aware of who you are and role model you play. Kids are everywhere.
It's been called a decent person. Most people are.
5) If teaching is easy and we're not entitled to fight for our rights then why aren't YOU a teacher? Come on in, the waters nice and warm. It's dead easy this lark...
6) 30k really that great?
It's more than most people get. So yes, it's a pretty good wage. Plus, what will your yearly final salary pension be? £20k pa? More?
My current pension is look at around £4-6K pa.
...oh, the maintenance of 30 kids all day who shout, swear and threaten to hurt you or send you to jail putting you off? Shame.
I haven't had a pay rise in years. Had a pay cut 2 years ago, and if business doesn't pick up shortly I may very well be asked to take between 25-40% pay cut.
2 of our rivals have gone bust in the last few months.
15 June 2011, 10:14 PM
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Inflation high
Interest rates looking set to rise
Massive budget deficit
Only one in five newly qualified teachers getting a job http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-13773708
I'd tell anyone that doesn't like it to clear off. Los of people out there who will be glad to take their place it seems.
Lets not forget, only about a third of those who are actual members of the unions voted for strike action. How democratic.
5t.
15 June 2011, 10:36 PM
#36
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If you didn't vote to go on strike, you don't have to.
But we're stuck with this tragic Government.
How democratic...
16 June 2011, 12:54 AM
#37
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jealousy get you no where! how is it you think its just the private sector thats suffering? people in the public sector are suffering just the same as any1 else. fair enough public sector gets paid more in some cases but they work hard for it so if they feel they need to strike for what they believe they are entitled to so be it.
16 June 2011, 10:20 AM
#39
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jealousy get you no where! how is it you think its just the private sector thats suffering? people in the public sector are suffering just the same as any1 else. fair enough public sector gets paid more in some cases but they work hard for it so if they feel they need to strike for what they believe they are entitled to so be it.
It's not a question of jealousy but value to the tax payer (me and you) and economic reality.
Everyone thinks they should earn more BTW just not many in the private sector are members of strong unions. The weakest and poorest PRIVATE sector workers cannot strike. Should they work more years so that Teachers can work less? Answer me that!
What get's me is the absolute dishonesty of the union spokepeople on TV. They say they are striking to 'stop all Teachers leaving', to 'save the welfare state', 'for the children'. It's disgusting, when all they are really doing is exercising a form of economic gangsterism.
16 June 2011, 10:45 AM
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Early retirement? Where do you get this non sense from Tony? My wife had her pension stuff through and it said 65 for retirement I wouldn't say that was early would you?
16 June 2011, 11:56 AM
#41
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Teachers have a fair salary and pension rights. The Issue is that large parts of the private sector have been screwed over with crap salary and pensions. It is an inevitable fact that in a country run by capitalist bankers the workers will get screwed over by those at he top. While it is galling that our taxes pay for teachers to get pensions that most of the private sector can only dream of it, does not change that the issue lies with prvate sector getting screwed more than it does with the public sector being overpaid.
16 June 2011, 12:21 PM
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As a qualified instructor in my job I did a lot of classroom teaching one way and another and I found it interesting and very satisfying. Did not get the long holidays though and my salary was not much to write home about.
I will say though, that I would find it very frustrating to teach in many of our schools these days with the threat of violence and no effective way to impose discipline on the wayward children that we see these days.
Until the pc plonkers get their heads out of that nasty place, we shall always have trouble with children who have feckless parents and the teachers are not in a position to protect themselves from attack or to teach such young thugs the right way to behave in society.
Les
I will say though, that I would find it very frustrating to teach in many of our schools these days with the threat of violence and no effective way to impose discipline on the wayward children that we see these days.
Until the pc plonkers get their heads out of that nasty place, we shall always have trouble with children who have feckless parents and the teachers are not in a position to protect themselves from attack or to teach such young thugs the right way to behave in society.
Les
16 June 2011, 12:43 PM
#43
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As a teacher there are a few things people need to be aware of.
1) The responsibility - we have YOUR children in OUR care, that is a lot of responsibility, especially when arranging enrichment/trips etc. This multiplies ten fold when abroad.
2) We do not get a single penny for extra work. On top of working extra nearly every weekend, this is includes parents evenings, open evenings, trips, after school activities.
3) We get about 8 weeks holiday a year. Don't get me wrong, it's great. But not too much more than the average Joe.
4) You never stop being a teacher. At the weekend, during a walk, on holiday - you have to aware of who you are and role model you play. Kids are everywhere.
5) If teaching is easy and we're not entitled to fight for our rights then why aren't YOU a teacher? Come on in, the waters nice and warm. It's dead easy this lark...
6) 30k really that great?
...oh, the maintenance of 30 kids all day who shout, swear and threaten to hurt you or send you to jail putting you off? Shame.
1) The responsibility - we have YOUR children in OUR care, that is a lot of responsibility, especially when arranging enrichment/trips etc. This multiplies ten fold when abroad.
2) We do not get a single penny for extra work. On top of working extra nearly every weekend, this is includes parents evenings, open evenings, trips, after school activities.
3) We get about 8 weeks holiday a year. Don't get me wrong, it's great. But not too much more than the average Joe.
4) You never stop being a teacher. At the weekend, during a walk, on holiday - you have to aware of who you are and role model you play. Kids are everywhere.
5) If teaching is easy and we're not entitled to fight for our rights then why aren't YOU a teacher? Come on in, the waters nice and warm. It's dead easy this lark...
6) 30k really that great?
...oh, the maintenance of 30 kids all day who shout, swear and threaten to hurt you or send you to jail putting you off? Shame.
Taking your points:-
1. Quite true - you are educating our children ... but, that IS your single task is it not? And when we talk about 'enrichment trips' - who is it enriching? Yes, the children - but, is it not also enriching YOU, and your partner, who get a FREE holday paid for by the childrens parents!? Hmmmmmmmm, strange how we NEVER have any trouble getting Teachers to 'escort' the pupils to Spain, Germany, France and the USA - but, all of a sudden, they don't want to take them to the local Museum as it's too much hassle!!
2. You only have to work a 'directed' time of 26 hours a week! If you are directed to work 4 hours in the evening for the children - you take 4 hours off somewhere else!! So don't come that old chestnut!
3. 8 Weeks? Do me a favour!! 6 Weeks in the summer, 2 weeks half term, 2 weeks easter and 2 weeks Xmas ...... I've probably missed a few others - thats 12 weeks NOT 8!! You aren't a Maths Teacher - hopefully?
4. We are ALL role models to children .... !!!
5. Not everyone is cut out to be a Teacher - well done that you are. You couldn't do my job - BUT, the point is that Teachers are moaning about being asked to join the 'Real' world in some small way - we have ALL had our Pensions eroded, we have ALL suffered!!
6. £30k - for 26 hours a week and 12 weeks holiday? I'd say that was VERY well paid!!! Don't forget your £12k TLR Payment for looking after the bike shed will you!?
Wake up, smell the coffee, stop damned moaning!
16 June 2011, 01:05 PM
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16 June 2011, 02:03 PM
#48
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Problem with a lot of Teachers is that many have never had real world jobs, and there is a lefty core which has thus never had to grow up and still wants to keep the red flag flying.
16 June 2011, 08:39 PM
#49
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It's true - the majority of Teachers have never, ever, been out of Education .......... certainly they haven't a clue about the real world out there.
26 hours ARE the only hours we can direct a Teacher to work .... if they choose to, they can work an extra 11 hours - taking them to 37 hours, which is STILL less than any other worker in the land!!
And then they have to suffer 12 weeks holiday and an average salary of £35,000 + a TLR Payment of up to £12,500!!
£47,500 is the average pay in a Senior School ..................... the HeadTeachers £150,000 obviously has an effect, as does the £70,000 paid to the Deputy HeadTeachers ..... yes, there are more than one these days!!
Then you have a large team of Assistant Heads on around £55,000 ...... followed by the Heads of Departments on £50,000+
It's very, very rare these days to find a Teacher being paid less than £42,500.
26 hours ARE the only hours we can direct a Teacher to work .... if they choose to, they can work an extra 11 hours - taking them to 37 hours, which is STILL less than any other worker in the land!!
And then they have to suffer 12 weeks holiday and an average salary of £35,000 + a TLR Payment of up to £12,500!!
£47,500 is the average pay in a Senior School ..................... the HeadTeachers £150,000 obviously has an effect, as does the £70,000 paid to the Deputy HeadTeachers ..... yes, there are more than one these days!!
Then you have a large team of Assistant Heads on around £55,000 ...... followed by the Heads of Departments on £50,000+
It's very, very rare these days to find a Teacher being paid less than £42,500.
16 June 2011, 08:47 PM
#50
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It's true - the majority of Teachers have never, ever, been out of Education .......... certainly they haven't a clue about the real world out there.
26 hours ARE the only hours we can direct a Teacher to work .... if they choose to, they can work an extra 11 hours - taking them to 37 hours, which is STILL less than any other worker in the land!!
And then they have to suffer 12 weeks holiday and an average salary of £35,000 + a TLR Payment of up to £12,500!!
£47,500 is the average pay in a Senior School ..................... the HeadTeachers £150,000 obviously has an effect, as does the £70,000 paid to the Deputy HeadTeachers ..... yes, there are more than one these days!!
Then you have a large team of Assistant Heads on around £55,000 ...... followed by the Heads of Departments on £50,000+
It's very, very rare these days to find a Teacher being paid less than £42,500.
26 hours ARE the only hours we can direct a Teacher to work .... if they choose to, they can work an extra 11 hours - taking them to 37 hours, which is STILL less than any other worker in the land!!
And then they have to suffer 12 weeks holiday and an average salary of £35,000 + a TLR Payment of up to £12,500!!
£47,500 is the average pay in a Senior School ..................... the HeadTeachers £150,000 obviously has an effect, as does the £70,000 paid to the Deputy HeadTeachers ..... yes, there are more than one these days!!
Then you have a large team of Assistant Heads on around £55,000 ...... followed by the Heads of Departments on £50,000+
It's very, very rare these days to find a Teacher being paid less than £42,500.
I'm not sure where they would go though?
It's decent money for an almost 100% secure job to be fair, where you are spared the rigors and trials of private sector competition.
16 June 2011, 08:52 PM
#51
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I'll let you into a secret ............. there are 50 Teachers chasing every Vacancy at the moment!!!
3 years ago it was quite the opposite - then, we were desperate to get Teachers and would have to offer TLR Payments to attract them!!
Not now, now we can pick and choose AND are only offering 12 month contracts!!
They are not wanted in Industry - they couldn't cope with the hours and lack of leave - and they can't go to many Schools as the competition is high ........ not many will be hiring NUT and ATL Members who went on strike, that's for sure.
One of the questions at interview will be, "Did you make the children in your care suffer at your hands by striking on 30th June 2011?".
I will leave you to guess whether they will be getting jobs if the answer is, "Yes, due to my own greed I abandoned the children in my care on 30th June 2011"!!!!!!
3 years ago it was quite the opposite - then, we were desperate to get Teachers and would have to offer TLR Payments to attract them!!
Not now, now we can pick and choose AND are only offering 12 month contracts!!
They are not wanted in Industry - they couldn't cope with the hours and lack of leave - and they can't go to many Schools as the competition is high ........ not many will be hiring NUT and ATL Members who went on strike, that's for sure.
One of the questions at interview will be, "Did you make the children in your care suffer at your hands by striking on 30th June 2011?".
I will leave you to guess whether they will be getting jobs if the answer is, "Yes, due to my own greed I abandoned the children in my care on 30th June 2011"!!!!!!
Last edited by pslewis; 16 June 2011 at 08:54 PM.
17 June 2011, 06:19 PM
#54
I have to say that teachers are pretty well paid now and they cannot expect us to work until were 65 whilst they take early retirement .We have had this conversation on here before and even a teachers spouse said his wife was on a cushy number .
Time to feel the pain like the rest of us Im afraid,or come and join us in the real world !!
Time to feel the pain like the rest of us Im afraid,or come and join us in the real world !!
17 June 2011, 06:20 PM
#55
42k?! - you are kidding. No way. Management, maybe. Not regular payscale teachers
17 June 2011, 06:24 PM
#56
Hmmmmmm, lets put things into perspective, shall we?
Taking your points:-
1. Quite true - you are educating our children ... but, that IS your single task is it not? And when we talk about 'enrichment trips' - who is it enriching? Yes, the children - but, is it not also enriching YOU, and your partner, who get a FREE holday paid for by the childrens parents!? Hmmmmmmmm, strange how we NEVER have any trouble getting Teachers to 'escort' the pupils to Spain, Germany, France and the USA - but, all of a sudden, they don't want to take them to the local Museum as it's too much hassle!!
2. You only have to work a 'directed' time of 26 hours a week! If you are directed to work 4 hours in the evening for the children - you take 4 hours off somewhere else!! So don't come that old chestnut!
3. 8 Weeks? Do me a favour!! 6 Weeks in the summer, 2 weeks half term, 2 weeks easter and 2 weeks Xmas ...... I've probably missed a few others - thats 12 weeks NOT 8!! You aren't a Maths Teacher - hopefully?
4. We are ALL role models to children .... !!!
5. Not everyone is cut out to be a Teacher - well done that you are. You couldn't do my job - BUT, the point is that Teachers are moaning about being asked to join the 'Real' world in some small way - we have ALL had our Pensions eroded, we have ALL suffered!!
6. £30k - for 26 hours a week and 12 weeks holiday? I'd say that was VERY well paid!!! Don't forget your £12k TLR Payment for looking after the bike shed will you!?
Wake up, smell the coffee, stop damned moaning!
Taking your points:-
1. Quite true - you are educating our children ... but, that IS your single task is it not? And when we talk about 'enrichment trips' - who is it enriching? Yes, the children - but, is it not also enriching YOU, and your partner, who get a FREE holday paid for by the childrens parents!? Hmmmmmmmm, strange how we NEVER have any trouble getting Teachers to 'escort' the pupils to Spain, Germany, France and the USA - but, all of a sudden, they don't want to take them to the local Museum as it's too much hassle!!
2. You only have to work a 'directed' time of 26 hours a week! If you are directed to work 4 hours in the evening for the children - you take 4 hours off somewhere else!! So don't come that old chestnut!
3. 8 Weeks? Do me a favour!! 6 Weeks in the summer, 2 weeks half term, 2 weeks easter and 2 weeks Xmas ...... I've probably missed a few others - thats 12 weeks NOT 8!! You aren't a Maths Teacher - hopefully?
4. We are ALL role models to children .... !!!
5. Not everyone is cut out to be a Teacher - well done that you are. You couldn't do my job - BUT, the point is that Teachers are moaning about being asked to join the 'Real' world in some small way - we have ALL had our Pensions eroded, we have ALL suffered!!
6. £30k - for 26 hours a week and 12 weeks holiday? I'd say that was VERY well paid!!! Don't forget your £12k TLR Payment for looking after the bike shed will you!?
Wake up, smell the coffee, stop damned moaning!
17 June 2011, 07:26 PM
#57
Scooby Regular
That would seem more than reasonable ..... that's 37 hours - you may not know this, but most people work at least 40 hours!!
And, you mention Exams - what exactly do you do regards Exams? The Learning Support Assistants on £8500 a year monitor those, others mark the Exams ....... some Teachers turn up to watch, but they actually do absolutely zero whilst sat watching.
17 June 2011, 07:34 PM
#58
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Les
It's as Midlife said above, "Teaching and Learning Responsibility" payments .... these are paid for the most suspect of reasons in a lot of cases.
And amazing fact about TLR's - and something the Government should stamp out - is that they are paid for 3 years beyond where the Teacher stops doing the extra task!! - another glowing example of Teachers living in some surreal universe!!
The effect of this 3 year retention of the payment is that Teacher A can be awarded a TLR Payment, let's say of £12,500 ...... they then stop doing the task which generated that payment ...... so, Teacher B is given the task and the £12,500 TLR payment. Teacher A gets the £12,500 for three years and doesn't have to do a thing for it!!! You and I get stung for TWO TLR Payments - this can of course repeat itself to Teacher C and Teacher D .... it's used to top Teachers £35,000 Salary up by £12,500!!
We are being taken for a ride as Taxpayers and it's about time someone stopped the noses at the trough ................. and, to top it all off, they demand a better Pension than the rest of us!!
It's a disgrace!!
It's as Midlife said above, "Teaching and Learning Responsibility" payments .... these are paid for the most suspect of reasons in a lot of cases.
And amazing fact about TLR's - and something the Government should stamp out - is that they are paid for 3 years beyond where the Teacher stops doing the extra task!! - another glowing example of Teachers living in some surreal universe!!
The effect of this 3 year retention of the payment is that Teacher A can be awarded a TLR Payment, let's say of £12,500 ...... they then stop doing the task which generated that payment ...... so, Teacher B is given the task and the £12,500 TLR payment. Teacher A gets the £12,500 for three years and doesn't have to do a thing for it!!! You and I get stung for TWO TLR Payments - this can of course repeat itself to Teacher C and Teacher D .... it's used to top Teachers £35,000 Salary up by £12,500!!
We are being taken for a ride as Taxpayers and it's about time someone stopped the noses at the trough ................. and, to top it all off, they demand a better Pension than the rest of us!!
It's a disgrace!!
Last edited by pslewis; 17 June 2011 at 07:38 PM.
17 June 2011, 07:50 PM
#59
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Once again its ONLY those who have done the job properly for at least 5 years who have ANY idea what the job involves, especially at secondary level.
Everybody has been to school so everybody is an expert on teaching.
If it was such a sinecure why didn't you slaggers become teachers ? (looking forward to the answers to that one)
One interesting fact a few years ago regarding life expectancy after doing the job FT is retire at 65 average life expectancy a further 7 years, retire at 60, average life expectancy 15 years. So not too many years of pension to pay !
Keep up the interesting, ignorant posts slagging teachers and the job - its so funny !
Just read the last post - and just stopped laughing !
There is so much money in education that it is being thrown at teachers for doing nothing extra ???
Yet another wonderfully ignorant comment ! You obviously have no idea of budget constraints in education
Everybody has been to school so everybody is an expert on teaching.
If it was such a sinecure why didn't you slaggers become teachers ? (looking forward to the answers to that one)
One interesting fact a few years ago regarding life expectancy after doing the job FT is retire at 65 average life expectancy a further 7 years, retire at 60, average life expectancy 15 years. So not too many years of pension to pay !
Keep up the interesting, ignorant posts slagging teachers and the job - its so funny !
Just read the last post - and just stopped laughing !
There is so much money in education that it is being thrown at teachers for doing nothing extra ???
Yet another wonderfully ignorant comment ! You obviously have no idea of budget constraints in education
Last edited by StanS; 17 June 2011 at 07:55 PM.
17 June 2011, 07:52 PM
#60
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U3 on the Teachers PaySpine - where all Teachers get to after about 7 years - is £37,795 .... it's MUCH higher in London, of course.
This £37,795 is a BASIC Salary - to this you add a TLR Payment. If that is £12,500 then, clearly, that Teachers Salary is £50,295.
Yes, £52,295!
Of course, some Teachers may only get a TLR Payment of £9000 .... but, that's STILL £46,795.
My £42,000 average takes into account the NQT's just starting out on £26,203.
No Teacher in the land gets paid less than £22,626 .... not bad for a starting pay - I'm sure everyone will agree.
The old claim that Teachers are poorly paid has been a myth for at least 15 years .... but, some still wish you to believe it!! DON'T!! They do VERY well thanks to yours and my taxes!!