johnnybon

iTrader: (70)

Fit for purpose is the saving fraze over here the car has to be fit for purpose for 6 months i no it sounds a long time but its true all the dealers around here got a letter from trading standards stating that he might try to wrigle out of it but tell him that you will go to court and ill bet he will fix or return you cash as the courts hate car dealer and you will win

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

'Planned obsolescence' has been around for donkeys years! The Japs were well known for it with their motorbikes, cameras etc A new model every 6 months in some cases. However, this was a ploy to those who must have the 'latest model' and not necessarily early failure or poor quality policy. All things considered, cars are Sooo much better than they used to be.

JohnD

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Bad advice; The dealer has to be given the chance to put it right themselves first. Unless they agree otherwise in advance of work being done in accordance to the quotes given to rectify it (in writing...of course ).

Also to be covered by sales and goods act you need proof (written confirmation from a qualified mechanic) that the items that have failed are not wear and tear or something that is associated with the age/mileage of the vehicle. There is exemption in S&G act for failure of items based on the age/mileage/condition of the vehicle; unless the advertised description of the vehicle says otherwise (i.e "drives like new" on a car with knackered shocks is obviously misleading).

i.e Seeing shocks are wear and tear item; Its safe to say they should last 40K as a bare minimum so if the car has less than that you have a case, but say, beyond 80K miles they can easily be classified as worn, and therefore it would be expected they may need to be replaced in the near future.

Description, presented condition, and mileage is key here.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Rover K-series head gasket is a good example. It was never intended to last or be durable for anything longer than its warranty period.

Funny that as soon as MG-Rover went bump, the OEM manufacturers replaced the head gasket kit with the updated version of the gasket (multi layered - like most other modern cars ) along with a stronger lower oil feed ladder.

This is what is now fitted to every K-series that now has a HG failure. Where before, the kit was just the cheapo single layer gasket. Why were they not available when Rover was still producing cars? And why were they not fitted to brand new engines? We know why - to keep turnover in the dealership's workshops and parts suppliers.

Still they proven to be very good for business for workshops across the country. At it's peak we'd do a K series head gasket every day of the week (be it in a Rover, MG, Lotus or Land Rover)...and thats the crux, the original probably was only intended to last 5 years tops (ignoring overheating issues from air locks or dodgy o-rings). Current design? Don't known, never seen one come back with another HG failure (yet...plenty return with other stuff going wrong though )

The replacement for the loss of K-series work is the BMW Mini gearbox (both midland and 5 speed getrag)...Minis + women drivers = good business for gearbox repairs!

Pink_Floyd

Fair points made. However the advice I was given by trading standards is that the car must be roadworthy. Granted a car with 80k on the clock will likely have stone chips, worn shocks and interior. That's to be expected. Likewise a £20k car at 10 years old should be in better order than a £250 car at 10 years old.

Ultimately wear and tear doesn't come into it if the part is faulty regardless of how that fault occurred. Just because a car has travelled 80k doesn't allow a dealer to sell it with knackered shocks! Even if they have failed through wear and tear. If that was legal car dealers the length and breadth of the UK would be knocking out cars with faults quite legally.

The difference is complaining the parts are worn and not faulty. You'd have to be a lunatic to demand all parts had little or no wear on a second hand car. You'd be perfectly entitled however to expect a second hand car to be fault free for a reasonable amount of time.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Agreed, i phone being the perfect example, along with many other "gadgets".

But failure is a totally different thing, manufactures test every component to destruction, and as such manufacture in faults washing machines being the perfect example, the rubber seals are manufactured using compounds that degrade over a period of 5/6yrs and i suspect the same is true of many seals across many industries, ie aforementioned rover head gasket.

Audi are an industry leader in this field with all their new cars since around 02 and possibly before.

So many cars these days have these and other service items manufactured into their design.

Even changing a headlight bulb on some new cars means a trip to the dealers and 1 or 2 hours labour , £120 to change a headlight bulb, that is designed to fail every 100hrs or so, thats good business for manufacturers and dealers.

Maybe cars are better than they used to be but i'm not so sure it's to the benefit of the customer..

zayd

iTrader: (1)

Well said that man. A friend of mine was a BMW Master Technician and he told me the same thing about their cars. Many parts are made with shelf lives, so you can imagine how many trips back to the dealer this involves.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Yes a dealer can quite easily sell a car with knackered shocks: Define a knackered shock absorber: If its knocking (yet still secure) or a 'bit' sloppy in damping control, the car in legal terms is still roadworthy, to expand:

Oil leakage or next to zero damping = MOT fail, not roadworthy. No car should be sold like this.

Knocking or sloppy shock on a 80k mile or 5+ year old car = Car is still roadworthy (MOT pass) and defined as worn. Yes, a dealer can sell it like this (and most do).

Knocking or sloppy shock on a 20K mile 2 year old car = Car is still roadworthy (MOT pass) and the shock can be considered as faulty or put through extreme operating conditions (i.e driven on rough terrains ). No a dealer should not sell it like this, unless the car is priced according to its condition and description (very grey area that).

RS_Matt

Warranties don't cover that much and some only up to £250. If a cars unfit for purpose then they have to take it back.

I took a dealers to court over an unfit EVO IV they sold me and I won £12500.

The car people sheffield sold me a wrx that needed an engine rebuild, they said no way and pointed to faulty electrics in the car, I know I could win if I pressed it again, but the EVO case was drawn out and very costly.

Car dealers/firms are scum basically.