Petrol: ARE we being ripped off?
27 April 2011, 10:25 AM
#31
And they DON'T seem to realise, or don't CARE that rising fuel prices MUST put ALL delivery prices up, so inflation rises.
27 April 2011, 11:04 AM
#32
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The problem with the government lowering tax is that they, by definition, lower their spending at the same time, or increase our collective debt on our behalf. Those are the only options. Now, if they lower spending, that also affects living standards in the same way that higher tax on fuel prices would have. Either way, there is no more or no less 'money' in the economy, but, since the goal of government spending is to spread it around a bit, in such a situation there would probably be more noise from the people who currently benefit the most from spending than there was previously from the whole when there was slightly higher fuel tax.
So the only way to fill the gap is then by borrowing, i.e. present consumption at the expense of future consumption.
So the only way to fill the gap is then by borrowing, i.e. present consumption at the expense of future consumption.
27 April 2011, 11:09 AM
#33
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The problem with the government lowering tax is that they, by definition, lower their spending at the same time, or increase our collective debt on our behalf. Those are the only options. Now, if they lower spending, that also affects living standards in the same way that higher tax on fuel prices would have. Either way, there is no more or no less 'money' in the economy, but, since the goal of government spending is to spread it around a bit, in such a situation there would probably be more noise from the people who currently benefit the most from spending than there was previously from the whole when there was slightly higher fuel tax.
So the only way to fill the gap is then by borrowing, i.e. present consumption at the expense of future consumption.
So the only way to fill the gap is then by borrowing, i.e. present consumption at the expense of future consumption.
.......
27 April 2011, 11:21 AM
#34
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In a nutshell, yes. The only way to get lower taxes is lower spending, but we're in a situation where a lot of people currently rely on the government due to the way things have been set up over the long-term. Even people not directly relying on the state for their income would suffer temporarily as spending falls. There's no way to cut it and keep living standards unaffected in any way, which is what seems to be expected.
Last edited by GlesgaKiss; 27 April 2011 at 11:24 AM.
27 April 2011, 01:28 PM
#36
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The trouble is petrol is in such high demand. More than ever before. Of course they are gonna keep the price high when everyone keeps paying it.
The only time it will change is when people reduce the demand. Buy more economical cars, move closer to work, walk or ride a bike more often etc.
The price would drop pretty quickly if demand halved.
The only time it will change is when people reduce the demand. Buy more economical cars, move closer to work, walk or ride a bike more often etc.
The price would drop pretty quickly if demand halved.
27 April 2011, 01:29 PM
#37
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Could they not just use income tax to cover any deficit in the government budget - it's what taxes are all about. They could combine NI and income tax while they were about it too. That would save having 2 government departments NICO and HMRC.
Is it possible to work out how much income tax would have to rise if petrol was brought down to £1 a litre?
I walk or ride to work pretty much every day. I can make a full tank of petrol last 5 weeks - and thats from a 4.0 auto Jeep that does 14.1mpg!
Is it possible to work out how much income tax would have to rise if petrol was brought down to £1 a litre?
I walk or ride to work pretty much every day. I can make a full tank of petrol last 5 weeks - and thats from a 4.0 auto Jeep that does 14.1mpg!
Last edited by EddScott; 27 April 2011 at 01:30 PM.
27 April 2011, 01:34 PM
#38
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@ Alcazar - With the exchange rates taken into account, we're very close to the highest pound price in oil anyway. And then you've the added tax since '08 and other costs associated with production and transportation, of which tax in other areas will play a part!
Last edited by GlesgaKiss; 27 April 2011 at 01:41 PM.
27 April 2011, 01:41 PM
#40
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Could they not just use income tax to cover any deficit in the government budget - it's what taxes are all about. They could combine NI and income tax while they were about it too. That would save having 2 government departments NICO and HMRC.
Is it possible to work out how much income tax would have to rise if petrol was brought down to £1 a litre?
I walk or ride to work pretty much every day. I can make a full tank of petrol last 5 weeks - and thats from a 4.0 auto Jeep that does 14.1mpg!
Is it possible to work out how much income tax would have to rise if petrol was brought down to £1 a litre?
I walk or ride to work pretty much every day. I can make a full tank of petrol last 5 weeks - and thats from a 4.0 auto Jeep that does 14.1mpg!
Well done on making the most of your situation btw, cycling or walking has to be the way to go if you can.
Last edited by GlesgaKiss; 27 April 2011 at 01:42 PM.
27 April 2011, 03:57 PM
#42
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did read a good article the other day that said its actually about the same, or a bit cheaper to fill yr car up than it was in the 70's, due to them being pound for pound much more efficient:
i.e a mgb roadster, compared to a mazda mx 5
rover 2 l petrol, v any 2 lt diesel rep car and so on.
its a valid point !!!!
i;d add to that that motoring is surely much cheaper as cars are so much more reliable:
i.e tyres last, there is no welding these days to get a car through an MOT and so on.
who remembers needing to do wheel arches, cills, spare wheel wells each yr for the test ? !!!!
you could barely get 100k out of a car before it had rotted into the ground !
i.e a mgb roadster, compared to a mazda mx 5
rover 2 l petrol, v any 2 lt diesel rep car and so on.
its a valid point !!!!
i;d add to that that motoring is surely much cheaper as cars are so much more reliable:
i.e tyres last, there is no welding these days to get a car through an MOT and so on.
who remembers needing to do wheel arches, cills, spare wheel wells each yr for the test ? !!!!
you could barely get 100k out of a car before it had rotted into the ground !
27 April 2011, 05:57 PM
#44
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I am quite ready to accept that we are indeed being ripped off in many ways as well as the price we are paying for fuel these days.
I personally think that once any politicians get into power, regardless of their politics, they will suddenly change their outlook to that of looking after No1 at all costs from their salaries to the obscene expenses that they are still claiming even after the exposure of their grubby tricks.
They certainly forget their promise to get themselves elected and also appear to get complete loss of vision when it comes to running this country for its own sake and also for its people.
I think we are very unlucky with the characters of most politicians these days as well as the greed which seems to pervade from the bankers onwards.
Les
I personally think that once any politicians get into power, regardless of their politics, they will suddenly change their outlook to that of looking after No1 at all costs from their salaries to the obscene expenses that they are still claiming even after the exposure of their grubby tricks.
They certainly forget their promise to get themselves elected and also appear to get complete loss of vision when it comes to running this country for its own sake and also for its people.
I think we are very unlucky with the characters of most politicians these days as well as the greed which seems to pervade from the bankers onwards.
Les
27 April 2011, 06:29 PM
#45
Trouble is, it's becoming hard to know when we are being shafted, and when it's the world economics
And we are used to being shafted in this country, PLUS we hardly EVER do owt about it............
27 April 2011, 06:30 PM
#46
did read a good article the other day that said its actually about the same, or a bit cheaper to fill yr car up than it was in the 70's, due to them being pound for pound much more efficient:
i.e a mgb roadster, compared to a mazda mx 5
rover 2 l petrol, v any 2 lt diesel rep car and so on.
its a valid point !!!!
i;d add to that that motoring is surely much cheaper as cars are so much more reliable:
i.e tyres last, there is no welding these days to get a car through an MOT and so on.
who remembers needing to do wheel arches, cills, spare wheel wells each yr for the test ? !!!!
you could barely get 100k out of a car before it had rotted into the ground !
i.e a mgb roadster, compared to a mazda mx 5
rover 2 l petrol, v any 2 lt diesel rep car and so on.
its a valid point !!!!
i;d add to that that motoring is surely much cheaper as cars are so much more reliable:
i.e tyres last, there is no welding these days to get a car through an MOT and so on.
who remembers needing to do wheel arches, cills, spare wheel wells each yr for the test ? !!!!
you could barely get 100k out of a car before it had rotted into the ground !
28 April 2011, 08:11 AM
#47
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my impreza has been 100%. but it was a subaru bought car (I bought it when it was two years old I htink) and I have it serviced there.
and I haven't chav'd it up and stuck bits on it !
I'm very impressed with it: in fact it is seriously the most reliable car I've ever had.
and I haven't chav'd it up and stuck bits on it !
I'm very impressed with it: in fact it is seriously the most reliable car I've ever had.
28 April 2011, 11:30 AM
#49
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There's more to it than meets the eye, hence my post on here asking for guidance.
Trouble is, it's becoming hard to know when we are being shafted, and when it's the world economics
And we are used to being shafted in this country, PLUS we hardly EVER do owt about it............
Trouble is, it's becoming hard to know when we are being shafted, and when it's the world economics
And we are used to being shafted in this country, PLUS we hardly EVER do owt about it............
Mind, it isn't like the companies themselves even try too hard to hide the fact. Case in point: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13213742
Profits up 41% so all things being equal, the hike at the pumps should just be to cover costs, clearly it isn't.
5t.
28 April 2011, 10:11 PM
#51
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There's more to it than meets the eye, hence my post on here asking for guidance.
Trouble is, it's becoming hard to know when we are being shafted, and when it's the world economics
And we are used to being shafted in this country, PLUS we hardly EVER do owt about it............
Trouble is, it's becoming hard to know when we are being shafted, and when it's the world economics
And we are used to being shafted in this country, PLUS we hardly EVER do owt about it............
If I remember correctly, you travel to France regularly. I am there for around two months each year and have been since 2005.
As you know back when the exchange rate was 1.5 it made our pump prices look outrageously expensive, particularly diesel where theirs is artificially low in relation to petrol and ours is the reverse.
I was there for the last two weeks after last being over in November and the prices over there have skyrocketed since that November visit.
The diesel was 1.45 ish/litre so very close to us, but the 95 was 1.55 ish and the 98 1.65 ish so both are crazy expensive. And bear in mind when you change your money you pretty much get 1:1 now.
I used to fill up on the way back near Calais, this time I filled up on the M20.
29 April 2011, 05:24 PM
#52
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The Tories aren't about to help the ordinary 'man-in-the-street' ... the rich get their fuel paid for them from their companies, they don't care one jot.
And why should you care if you have a personal inherited fortune in the £15 million area like Cameron and Osbourne. They haven't worked an hour for their vast wealth, they have no idea.
In answer to your fuel question, I believe that the Oil Companies are pushing the price until something snaps .... it is the usual Retail way of doing things - charge what the customer will pay (not what it actually can be sold for). Look at the Impreza STi for example ..... £33,450 for a plastic Hatchback? Come on, they are taking the mickey and will do until people stop buying.
So, we all should cut our consumption of fuel to drive the price down - I've done my bit, I'm now getting 55mpg ...... how about you lot doing likewise?
And why should you care if you have a personal inherited fortune in the £15 million area like Cameron and Osbourne. They haven't worked an hour for their vast wealth, they have no idea.
In answer to your fuel question, I believe that the Oil Companies are pushing the price until something snaps .... it is the usual Retail way of doing things - charge what the customer will pay (not what it actually can be sold for). Look at the Impreza STi for example ..... £33,450 for a plastic Hatchback? Come on, they are taking the mickey and will do until people stop buying.
So, we all should cut our consumption of fuel to drive the price down - I've done my bit, I'm now getting 55mpg ...... how about you lot doing likewise?
Les
30 April 2011, 12:46 AM
#55
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Wages in the states are minimal....as in next to nothing, so it hits them harder.
There a 25k job here = $40k+ (or whatever the exchange rate allows)
$40k+ is big money in the US of A..
a job with the New York fire Dept earns 38k - 89k $$$
$38k = £21k.......not great for one of the most dangerous cities in the USA>? particularly when 10,000+ apply for the role.
30 April 2011, 01:34 AM
#56
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Wages in the states are minimal....as in next to nothing, so it hits them harder.
There a 25k job here = $40k+ (or whatever the exchange rate allows)
$40k+ is big money in the US of A..
a job with the New York fire Dept earns 38k - 89k $$$
$38k = £21k.......not great for one of the most dangerous cities in the USA>? particularly when 10,000+ apply for the role.
There a 25k job here = $40k+ (or whatever the exchange rate allows)
$40k+ is big money in the US of A..
a job with the New York fire Dept earns 38k - 89k $$$
$38k = £21k.......not great for one of the most dangerous cities in the USA>? particularly when 10,000+ apply for the role.
They get taxed less too, but don't have same joke benefit state that we have. Their public service workers only have to do a 20 year stint to get a decent pension too.
30 April 2011, 12:54 PM
#58
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Les
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