Ok-so I think I've made a bit of a mistake
03 May 2011, 08:28 PM
#122
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I was also disappointed with the M3 - exactly as you found, Ding.
I think the C63 would be better for you but having seen a black XFR at Malton the other week - have to say it looks fantastic.
Another car that sounds the dogs dooberries, at least
I think the C63 would be better for you but having seen a black XFR at Malton the other week - have to say it looks fantastic.
Another car that sounds the dogs dooberries, at least
03 May 2011, 08:48 PM
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Ding - The back end kept coming out when coming out of junctions from a standstill. It was dry but was early in the morning and may have Been a bit of dew on the road. He does comment negatively about the grip but like I said he may just be giving it too much throttle. He used to have an RS4 which probably doesn't help.
04 May 2011, 02:56 PM
#124
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I think there are two things going on there Jim.
1) The amg has miles more torque than a M car, this relative lack of torque in M cars means they are less likely to let slip.
2) Stupidly enough the amg does not have a lsd as standard, it is an optional extra. From what I can tell not many people specced this.
I'd be interested to know whether your friend's car has the lsd.
Cheers
1) The amg has miles more torque than a M car, this relative lack of torque in M cars means they are less likely to let slip.
2) Stupidly enough the amg does not have a lsd as standard, it is an optional extra. From what I can tell not many people specced this.
I'd be interested to know whether your friend's car has the lsd.
Cheers
04 May 2011, 03:06 PM
#125
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The xfr will be interesting as I haven't driven a jag for about 10 years. I test drove a xjr back then and found it had terrible traction. The ground was damp and I was running a Scoob at the time and so was used to 4wd.
The xfr is meant to be marginally faster than a M5 in a straight line.
It only has a 6 speed box though, whether that actually makes any difference in the real world I don't know.
If I end up buying the Jag that'll mean I will have owned an AMG, M car, Audi RS and Jag R!
The xfr is meant to be marginally faster than a M5 in a straight line.
It only has a 6 speed box though, whether that actually makes any difference in the real world I don't know.
If I end up buying the Jag that'll mean I will have owned an AMG, M car, Audi RS and Jag R!
04 May 2011, 06:09 PM
#127
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Insane how these don't come with an LSD from the factory, with such a short options list this must stick out like a sore thumb and has to be a no brainer!
07 May 2011, 07:07 PM
#128
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Ok, it was the XFR today.
Perhaps a lot of things in life are about expectation. I had read a few reviews that basically had the XFR as a better car than the M5. Not surprising as the M5 was getting old and the XFR had just come out.
So I drove the car expecting something better than my old M5 and I don't think it was.
It has a better gearbox (SMG is way out dated now) and the ride was a tad better but the steering was way soft. The engine has loads of shove but seems to lack 'character'.
Brakes are excellent btw.
Anyway I should be comparing it to the current contenders rather than my old car. My over all feeling of the car was that it was very competent but seemed to lack that X factor. Difficult to put my finger on what it was but after about 15 minutes I was a bit bored of driving it, even though I had a very long drive.
Other minor gripes were that some of the switch gear is really cheap plastic not in keeping with a £65k car and for some reason I couldn't get properly comfortable in the seats.
I don't think it is for me.
Something in the back of my mind keeps thinking about the C63 AMG, it just seemed a bit bonkers and fun. I think there is also something very special about a powerful NA engine, I never really understood when people went on about this before. I thought they were just old fashioned and blinkered in their adversity to turbo/sc.
Since powerful NA engines will very very soon be a thing of the past (new M3 will be turbo as is new M5) due to emissions etc maybe I should take this last chance to own a 450 BHP (485 if I can find one with a performance pack
) NA car.
I will be going back to drive the C63 AMG again soon and then make a decision.
Perhaps a lot of things in life are about expectation. I had read a few reviews that basically had the XFR as a better car than the M5. Not surprising as the M5 was getting old and the XFR had just come out.
So I drove the car expecting something better than my old M5 and I don't think it was.
It has a better gearbox (SMG is way out dated now) and the ride was a tad better but the steering was way soft. The engine has loads of shove but seems to lack 'character'.
Brakes are excellent btw.
Anyway I should be comparing it to the current contenders rather than my old car. My over all feeling of the car was that it was very competent but seemed to lack that X factor. Difficult to put my finger on what it was but after about 15 minutes I was a bit bored of driving it, even though I had a very long drive.
Other minor gripes were that some of the switch gear is really cheap plastic not in keeping with a £65k car and for some reason I couldn't get properly comfortable in the seats.
I don't think it is for me.
Something in the back of my mind keeps thinking about the C63 AMG, it just seemed a bit bonkers and fun. I think there is also something very special about a powerful NA engine, I never really understood when people went on about this before. I thought they were just old fashioned and blinkered in their adversity to turbo/sc.
Since powerful NA engines will very very soon be a thing of the past (new M3 will be turbo as is new M5) due to emissions etc maybe I should take this last chance to own a 450 BHP (485 if I can find one with a performance pack
) NA car.I will be going back to drive the C63 AMG again soon and then make a decision.
Last edited by Dingdongler; 07 May 2011 at 07:09 PM.
07 May 2011, 07:32 PM
#129
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I think you need to stop being silly and do the sensible thing - get a lightweight 2 seater AND a family car.
You know you want to, and you also now know what 'man-math' is...
You know you want to, and you also now know what 'man-math' is...
07 May 2011, 08:35 PM
#130
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Zip, I've been over this in my mind over and over gain over many years. The thing is some people are happy to drive a £10k diesel for 75% of the time to have the odd blast in something really special now and again.
That doesn't do it for me, I want to be driving something nice all the time. I don't want to ever be in a crappy car.
To be able to have a top quality family car and something mental for the weekends would mean £100k+, and I don't have that amount of money to spend on a car.
Anyway, your new car looks mental and I reckon you are going to love every minute of it
07 May 2011, 10:01 PM
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Interesting thread. Did something similar a few years ago and sold a performance petrol for a sensible diesel (yes , I have the same father of two hat 
) I felt exactly the same way and was`nt happy until I got a performance petrol car again, to cap it all the money i saved in fuel with the diesel went out the window when the bosch injectors went 
) Although 535D is an awesome motor in its own right.
In the words of James May "diesels are strong, but petrols are somehow fitter" lol
) I felt exactly the same way and was`nt happy until I got a performance petrol car again, to cap it all the money i saved in fuel with the diesel went out the window when the bosch injectors went ) Although 535D is an awesome motor in its own right. In the words of James May "diesels are strong, but petrols are somehow fitter" lol
14 May 2011, 12:07 PM
#133
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Ok a quick update. I think I 've eventually come to a decision. I've decided to hang onto the 535 for now.
My two biggest issues with the car were
1) Steering feedback. Having driven the c and e63 amg and xfr and m3 now my conclusion is they are no better. I think I didn't realise just how good the steering feel on the M5 was, no other car in its class gets anywhere near it.
2) The ride/composure over certain road surfaces. Many people are saying that the run flats are to blame so perhaps I should get rid of these and see how I get on.
So I'll keep the 535d until the new M5 becomes affordable. BMW have hinted quite strongly that there will be a 4wd version, we'll see if it makes it to the UK!
Thanks and have a good weekeend.
My two biggest issues with the car were
1) Steering feedback. Having driven the c and e63 amg and xfr and m3 now my conclusion is they are no better. I think I didn't realise just how good the steering feel on the M5 was, no other car in its class gets anywhere near it.
2) The ride/composure over certain road surfaces. Many people are saying that the run flats are to blame so perhaps I should get rid of these and see how I get on.
So I'll keep the 535d until the new M5 becomes affordable. BMW have hinted quite strongly that there will be a 4wd version, we'll see if it makes it to the UK!
Thanks and have a good weekeend.
14 May 2011, 03:42 PM
#135
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John, post 102, if you can call that a review.
They were both good cars but the c63 was more fun, not surprising given that its a lot smaller and lighter than the e63. The 63amg engine is a peach, really enjoyable with a linear pull to the redline.
It was more fun than the m3 mainly due to the extra power. The m3 whas quick but the c63 felt a little ballistic. What I didn't get to do was test tge handling at the extremes (or anywhere near). With just spirited driving the c63 felt as good as the m3 but given that any review you read/see says the m3 betters the amg on track, I wonder if it is actually as good when driving harder.
All in all I still think the M5 betters all of them. It has many flaws, and the gearbox in all the other cars, jag included, is better than the m5. But as an all round package especially when driving hard the M5 has it.
Thats pretty good going considering all the other cars are a lot newer.
The car that was the most fun was the c63, it seems like the kind of car you would always look forward to driving. There are some with a performance pack that have near on 490 bhp, that must be mental.
The car which I'll watch with interest (apart from the new m5) is the c63 amg coupe. It will have an all new interior and the dct gearbox. If it is 15% better than the saloon then it is going to be one heck of a car, one I'll seriously think about buying.
They were both good cars but the c63 was more fun, not surprising given that its a lot smaller and lighter than the e63. The 63amg engine is a peach, really enjoyable with a linear pull to the redline.
It was more fun than the m3 mainly due to the extra power. The m3 whas quick but the c63 felt a little ballistic. What I didn't get to do was test tge handling at the extremes (or anywhere near). With just spirited driving the c63 felt as good as the m3 but given that any review you read/see says the m3 betters the amg on track, I wonder if it is actually as good when driving harder.
All in all I still think the M5 betters all of them. It has many flaws, and the gearbox in all the other cars, jag included, is better than the m5. But as an all round package especially when driving hard the M5 has it.
Thats pretty good going considering all the other cars are a lot newer.
The car that was the most fun was the c63, it seems like the kind of car you would always look forward to driving. There are some with a performance pack that have near on 490 bhp, that must be mental.
The car which I'll watch with interest (apart from the new m5) is the c63 amg coupe. It will have an all new interior and the dct gearbox. If it is 15% better than the saloon then it is going to be one heck of a car, one I'll seriously think about buying.
14 May 2011, 07:02 PM
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There were a few C63 AMG's at VMax at Bruntingthorpe today - sounded and went very well indeed, but they only had to go round one corner.
Last edited by zip106; 14 May 2011 at 07:04 PM.
14 May 2011, 07:12 PM
#137
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John, post 102, if you can call that a review.
They were both good cars but the c63 was more fun, not surprising given that its a lot smaller and lighter than the e63. The 63amg engine is a peach, really enjoyable with a linear pull to the redline.
It was more fun than the m3 mainly due to the extra power. The m3 whas quick but the c63 felt a little ballistic. What I didn't get to do was test tge handling at the extremes (or anywhere near). With just spirited driving the c63 felt as good as the m3 but given that any review you read/see says the m3 betters the amg on track, I wonder if it is actually as good when driving harder.
All in all I still think the M5 betters all of them. It has many flaws, and the gearbox in all the other cars, jag included, is better than the m5. But as an all round package especially when driving hard the M5 has it.
Thats pretty good going considering all the other cars are a lot newer.
The car that was the most fun was the c63, it seems like the kind of car you would always look forward to driving. There are some with a performance pack that have near on 490 bhp, that must be mental.
The car which I'll watch with interest (apart from the new m5) is the c63 amg coupe. It will have an all new interior and the dct gearbox. If it is 15% better than the saloon then it is going to be one heck of a car, one I'll seriously think about buying.
They were both good cars but the c63 was more fun, not surprising given that its a lot smaller and lighter than the e63. The 63amg engine is a peach, really enjoyable with a linear pull to the redline.
It was more fun than the m3 mainly due to the extra power. The m3 whas quick but the c63 felt a little ballistic. What I didn't get to do was test tge handling at the extremes (or anywhere near). With just spirited driving the c63 felt as good as the m3 but given that any review you read/see says the m3 betters the amg on track, I wonder if it is actually as good when driving harder.
All in all I still think the M5 betters all of them. It has many flaws, and the gearbox in all the other cars, jag included, is better than the m5. But as an all round package especially when driving hard the M5 has it.
Thats pretty good going considering all the other cars are a lot newer.
The car that was the most fun was the c63, it seems like the kind of car you would always look forward to driving. There are some with a performance pack that have near on 490 bhp, that must be mental.
The car which I'll watch with interest (apart from the new m5) is the c63 amg coupe. It will have an all new interior and the dct gearbox. If it is 15% better than the saloon then it is going to be one heck of a car, one I'll seriously think about buying.
do you think you were to quick to judge the 535?, surely the wallet is seeing the benefit
and by the sounds of it, no car would have totaly matched your expectations (set by the M5), and you could have got a 16mpg dissapointment, instead of a 30mpg dissapointment.
Takes sensible hat off
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 14 May 2011 at 07:13 PM.
14 May 2011, 07:57 PM
#138
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Zip, they do sound gorgeous!
Hodgy, I think you are about right. I think I was too quick to judge, my biggest gripe may well be down to the run flats and so can be resolved.
None of the other cars are as nice a place to be in as the 535 by a large margin.
Cheers
Hodgy, I think you are about right. I think I was too quick to judge, my biggest gripe may well be down to the run flats and so can be resolved.
None of the other cars are as nice a place to be in as the 535 by a large margin.
Cheers
14 May 2011, 09:15 PM
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Was walking my son earlier around a few side streets and a black saloon AMG Merc came burbling past and gave it the beans when turning off.
OH MY GOD - it sounded like God standing on a plug... what an awesome sound it had!!
OH MY GOD - it sounded like God standing on a plug... what an awesome sound it had!!
15 May 2011, 07:40 AM
#142
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Maybe Hodgy. The second set of school fees start in September, income seems to be static now and god knows how much fuel and insurance will be by then
15 May 2011, 09:12 AM
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Not sure what you think of the CLS, but strangely one AMG version passed me yesterday and it looked very special.
Not sure what their usual prices are mind you...
BTW this was the new not yet relised version.
Not sure what their usual prices are mind you...
BTW this was the new not yet relised version.
15 May 2011, 12:09 PM
#144
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I'd love one mate, price is £80k though so way off budget
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=va8RFux4kGY
Last edited by Dingdongler; 15 May 2011 at 12:12 PM.
15 May 2011, 12:15 PM
#145
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15 May 2011, 01:02 PM
#146
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I would love a super car eating saloon – but it would have to sit in a long list, behind my wife (who does not want to get a job just yet, she still want to be around for the kids) and the kids, and with all the add-ons’ like horse riding/piano/saxophone/violin/singing/swimming/dance/Tang soo do lessons plus the foreign school trips, mobile phones (and I do not have to worry about school fees thank fvck)
Notwithstanding holidays – with 5 kids even the budget airlines get expensive, and when we arrive somewhere we have to take 2 taxis to get to the villa etc
Then come the house etc and it is never ending
and thats without my passion for windsurfing
You could we ask why I bother on theses sorts of threads – but I find the sheer enthusiasm of all you guys re cars quite uplifting tbh
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 15 May 2011 at 05:30 PM.
15 May 2011, 04:26 PM
#147
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That's about it Hodgy.
The add ons are just beginning to start for my kids ie extra curricular stuff. On top of all the expenses you've mentioned above I'm scared of not having enough when I retire so provision needs to be made for that.
I was meant to have a 'gold plated' final salary public sector pension but it doesn't look like that's going to be the case anymore. Rather than cry and shout about it I just accept it and realise I'll have to make the extra provision myself.
However like you I have a passion for fast/exotic cars that will never go away, so I'll still hand around on various car forums even if I'm driving a family diesel.
You and me are beginning to sound like a bunch of sad old gits
The add ons are just beginning to start for my kids ie extra curricular stuff. On top of all the expenses you've mentioned above I'm scared of not having enough when I retire so provision needs to be made for that.
I was meant to have a 'gold plated' final salary public sector pension but it doesn't look like that's going to be the case anymore. Rather than cry and shout about it I just accept it and realise I'll have to make the extra provision myself.
However like you I have a passion for fast/exotic cars that will never go away, so I'll still hand around on various car forums even if I'm driving a family diesel.
You and me are beginning to sound like a bunch of sad old gits
15 May 2011, 05:44 PM
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That's about it Hodgy.
The add ons are just beginning to start for my kids ie extra curricular stuff. On top of all the expenses you've mentioned above I'm scared of not having enough when I retire so provision needs to be made for that.
I was meant to have a 'gold plated' final salary public sector pension but it doesn't look like that's going to be the case anymore. Rather than cry and shout about it I just accept it and realise I'll have to make the extra provision myself.
However like you I have a passion for fast/exotic cars that will never go away, so I'll still hand around on various car forums even if I'm driving a family diesel.
You and me are beginning to sound like a bunch of sad old gits
The add ons are just beginning to start for my kids ie extra curricular stuff. On top of all the expenses you've mentioned above I'm scared of not having enough when I retire so provision needs to be made for that.
I was meant to have a 'gold plated' final salary public sector pension but it doesn't look like that's going to be the case anymore. Rather than cry and shout about it I just accept it and realise I'll have to make the extra provision myself.
However like you I have a passion for fast/exotic cars that will never go away, so I'll still hand around on various car forums even if I'm driving a family diesel.
You and me are beginning to sound like a bunch of sad old gits
I'm kinda glad now that I pay a chunk of my wages into the British Steel pension scheme for when I'm all old and **** too
15 May 2011, 08:41 PM
#150
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That's about it Hodgy.
The add ons are just beginning to start for my kids ie extra curricular stuff. On top of all the expenses you've mentioned above I'm scared of not having enough when I retire so provision needs to be made for that.
I was meant to have a 'gold plated' final salary public sector pension but it doesn't look like that's going to be the case anymore. Rather than cry and shout about it I just accept it and realise I'll have to make the extra provision myself.
However like you I have a passion for fast/exotic cars that will never go away, so I'll still hand around on various car forums even if I'm driving a family diesel.
You and me are beginning to sound like a bunch of sad old gits
The add ons are just beginning to start for my kids ie extra curricular stuff. On top of all the expenses you've mentioned above I'm scared of not having enough when I retire so provision needs to be made for that.
I was meant to have a 'gold plated' final salary public sector pension but it doesn't look like that's going to be the case anymore. Rather than cry and shout about it I just accept it and realise I'll have to make the extra provision myself.
However like you I have a passion for fast/exotic cars that will never go away, so I'll still hand around on various car forums even if I'm driving a family diesel.
You and me are beginning to sound like a bunch of sad old gits
anyway, joking aside Ding, I think you have made the right decision, keep the 535 and see if you want to upgrade to the new M5 when available, and meanwhile look at all the AMG's and thank them for helping to pay off the national debt
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