chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

Deep, shame about the Bimmer thing but if you can afford the hit of trading it back in then why put yourself through the misery?

Also as a decent earner (must be if your neighbours have exotica ), have you spoken with any of them with regards their choice of car and reasons for it?

Even driving my cheap luxo-barge Merc, there's something about it's build quality and ride which ooozes class and build quality

Jimpreza

+1. They don't look too bad either.

Stryder

I love these.

Might not have the balance or steering feedback of an M5, but it makes a dirty noise and will be more than a match for the M5 in a straight line

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2542657.htm

& something for the weekend if you can sneak away from the wife and kids

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2708660.htm

If not, get rid of the run flats and go see DMS!!

Matteeboy

The Alpine B10 is out in the F10 shape - well over 500bhp, looks pretty subtle.

They even do a Touring version - my ideal car!

Dingdongler

Thanks COB

I see your point about not putting myself through the misery but I just feel like such a plank for making such an expensive mistake. I should know better.

How is the baby btw? Keeping you up all night I hope

Dingdongler

To be honest Mattee/Stryder I think its time to take a break from BMWs.

I've got to make up my mind very soon in terms of whether to keep the car or not. I might take less of a hit if I get rid of the car now ie the M Sport only came out in October.
If I wait another 6months the financial impact could be worse.

I just can't see myself living with this thing long term.

Anyway, next week I'll test drive the E63 AMG and RS6 and see how I get on.

Thanks to everybody for their patience with my ramblings and poor decision making skills!

alanbell

iTrader: (6)

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Do you not think you are just being a bit fussy ?

Borrow my Saab for a week and I will use your BMW and you will appreciate it all the more when you get it back, think you have just been a bit spoilt by the M5 and need your expectations resetting a little as the 535 to most people is a really nice car, just get on and drive it !

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Oh no - not an Audi

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

Well foruntatley you're in the position where the financial hit won't exactly bankrupt you, so rub yourself off and go get what you really want - it really is quite that simple.

Isaac is fine, colic most evenings but apart from that he's a 13lb bruiser (not bad for 5 weeks)

Matteeboy

Ding - if you get an Audi, I will never speak to you again

However you are test driving both - looking forward to seeing pics of the new Merc

Dingdongler

Ok, so I rang the MB dealer today to say further to my little visit a few weeks ago I'd like to take his offer of a test drive. ''Why don't you come down right now?'' he says

First up was the E63 AMG.

This is a really nice car. Handles well and the MCT gearbox works well. Suspension can feel quite hard, especially in sport+ mode. Steering though direct, and the car reacts to inputs quickly, is a little light, not as good as the M5.

Though it's really fast, it doesn't feel as manic as my M5 at the top end, however has more low end pull. It does make me realise though that even though this engine is fantastic the M5 V10 had real character.

Next up the C63 AMG.

This felt really nice. Very light and responsive and felt really fast. Steering still a little light but seemed a little better than the E63 AMG. It also felt as though it had a better ride.
This car has a conventional auto with manual flappy paddles as opposed to the MCT in the E63 but it works really really well. The auto box is almost telepathic and always seems to be in the right gear.

I had a C AMG many years ago and this car has come on in leaps. My car was all soft and middle aged, this car is a bit of an animal and a hoot to drive.

Downsides are that it is smaller than I'm used to, being a C class the interior is ok rather than luxurious. The seats also don't allow for the sort of adjustment that I'm used to.

Upsides are that there are loads to choose from which means I could buy a 2009 well specced car for £45k.

I'm sure I'd like to be in with a shot at buying the new M5 when its a year old in 2013 and I'll probably lose less money on this than an 18 month old E63.

I'm going to go back and drive both next week again.


Btw, based on my drive of the c63 amg I reckon the c63 amg coupe with mct gearbox is going to be a really sorted car.

zip106

Glad you've found something that may possibly fit the bill!

I wanted to say though - not sure if the 'box in the E63 is the same auto as in the E350d.

I only mention it as we had an E350 as a courtesy car for a week and I found the box almost dangerous.

When trying to pull out of junctions a few times it appeared that it was trying to find 1st gear but took far too long.
I'd put my foot down to go and the car would creep forwards slowly - sometimes too slowly and traffic that you'd normally miss was suddenly upon you.

I also recall reading this in a magazine long term test.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

It's because Mercs are usually driven by very old people and they don't want to shock them with sudden acceleration so it has a built in 'Old Dears' pause.

Jimpreza

Ding - is there many extras on the c63 amg or are most things standard? I ask as a friend has one and I am sure he only paid 54k brand new. If so 45k for a 2009 model doesn't seem cheap.

Dingdongler

Thanks.

Zip, the gearbox on the AMG is completely different.

Jim, I thought they were about £50k basic. Lots of things standard but still a few extras that can be added. I've been trying to get onto the MB configurator for the C AMG to figure out whats standard and what is extra but the C AMG seems to be missing at the moment, maybe because the revised one is out soon?


The other car I will go and have a try of is the M3 saloon. Jim, I think you suggested this to me way back but I dismissed it at the time as I felt it was a step down and wouldn't have as many toys (and space) as a 5 series. Obviously I realise now these things are no replacement for driving fun

The M3 saloon may also be my best financial bet ie I may well get the best deal on my 535d from my supplying dealer if I tell him the ownership has not met my expectations and I want a used M3 saloon as a stop gap until the new M5 is affordable. I can play the whole life long BMW customer card (not true though!) and insist they do something to help me.

I notice though that there are hardly any M3 saloons on the used market, far less than C63 AMGs. Why is this??

fatscoobfella1

iTrader: (1)

I think that in M3 guise the coupe is the one that everyone goes for.It goes in hand with its sporty credentials..

DD how did you find the trim levels in the Merc ? Everyone i have sat in or driven feels cheaply built,with poor plastics and questionable seat material..My friend has a CLS 55 AMG and its a stormer of a car,but the interior is vomit inducing

Dingdongler

There are literally a handful of M3 saloons out there and since I want the DCT gearbox the choice gets even smaller.

The interior was ok, at the end of the day it's based on a C class benz so will never set the world on fire. It is not vomit inducing like the outgoing CLS, which I have seen and agree with you. The c class interior though nothing special doesn't have that old man feel that the cls had.

The material quality I'll have a better look at again when I go back for a second drive.

The thing is I've realised that a nice interior doesn't make up for raw thrills. My 535d has what must be the very best interior in this sort of car, it really is so amazingly well put together. With the right trim it is a beautiful and modern place to be, I'd urge you to have a sit in a decent specced one next time you are passing the dealer, just to know where the benchmark is now. The E63 can't touch it in this respect either.

I'll miss it for sure, but hopefully I'll see it again in M5 guise in the future.



On line reviews seem to place the M3 saloon as the better drivers car over the C63, it is meant to be just that bit more precise and rides better, though slower.
The problem is though there are hardly any out there!

fatscoobfella1

iTrader: (1)

I have been in a couple of F10's now and the interior is so much better than the E60 that it stuns..

I agree that an interior isnt "everything",its just another component that makes a complete package.And with the kinda money your spending there shouldnt be any downsides at all.
From my point of view,a great drivers car with a poor interior would infuriate the hell out of me..I know that i would be constantly looking,feeling and picking at the parts i didnt like.Because one things for certain,you cant hide from the interior when your driving the car.. A compromise it should not be.

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

Ah generalisation, I must be Scoobynets exception to the rule at a spritely 26

john banks

Look out for M3 depreciation. Evo magazine say their long termer has lost a few pounds shy of 20k in 11 months, and if like previous ones, buying a year old still exposes you to brutal depreciation.

Dingdongler

I think you are right John. Looking through the used prices it seems like the depreciation is huge with these cars. Kind of surprising as they are generally sought after cars that are reviewed positively.

A brand new car with decent spec £60k (rrp)

A nearly new car £55k

A one year old car £40k

A two year old car £30k

The above are all main dealer prices so trade in will be less.

The problem is I can't see the solution for me ie I don't think there is a performance saloon out there that doesn't depreciate at a minimum of £10k/year for at least the first three years, and often longer

john banks

Consider a 2 year old M3 saloon then? Don't get caught up about minor aspects of specification when you're buying it for half new price, but buy sensibly on condition? When I looked at the older M3 though, most of the BMW approved used ones looked trashed by 10000 miles and a year old, so you might have to hunt for a while.

I look after my cars well (but they are not concours), but seriously some of these one year olds that were said to be immaculate and unmarked were in far worse condition than our cars are after 5 years from new.

Not only that but some supposedly BMW approved used had delayed or missed services including one I agreed to buy from York with no service record available when I did the deal and when I went to collect after they took ages to get the plates change, I found it hadn't had a running in service when I finally got to check the service book just before I was about to pay for it. It couldn't be sold as an AUC and I got the train home (again)...

Many had tyres that were around 3mm, discs and pads that looked worn, asking top book for something shoddy.

Dingdongler

Thanks John, I was thinking along the same lines. No point shelling out a large amount ie £45k+ in getting a newish car, I might as well get a slightly older car for £35k.

What I can't figure out is will there be a difference in the residuals of a 2008/2009 M3 saloon vs 2008/2009 C63 AMG

drb5

iTrader: (4)

Doesn't BMW M-cars tend to hold value better than an AMG?

I get the impression an M car appeals to more of the masses, than an old fuddy-duddy Merc.

Dingdongler

I think that may well have been true some
years ago but the desirability of AMGs has increased as they have finally made cars that handle.

Also don't forget AMG make some really massive cars for mega money ie the S65 AMG and CL65 AMG which I think cost about £165k! They will of course depreciate massively.

But it would be interesting to know how the c63 compares to the M3 saloon. Judging from the numbers available, for those that wanted a 4 door option, many many more went for the c63 than the M3

Jimpreza

Ding - I spoke to my mate and he got a brand new c63 AMG for £52k. Don't think there's many, if any optional extras on it though. His thoughts were the M3 handled better but the Merc was quicker in a straight line, so no shock there. I like his AMG but the back end doesn't seem to grip that well, or he hasn't got used to the throttle yet.

I've just done a national search on autotrader and there are only 20 new shape M3 saloons. I have hardly seen any M3 saloons on the road they do all tend to be coupe's or a few convertibles.

Matteeboy

M3 saloons are uber cool.

Dingdongler

(Thanks Jim, have you found the back end slippy even in the dry? )


Well can I bore you guys a bit more with my antics?

I test drove the M3 Coupe today (I've read the saloon feels near identical), it was a demo car with the 'Competition Pack'. Nice car, rides well ie firm but not uncomfortable, interior plain but well screwed together, the new DCT gearbox works well.

One thing though was the steering which again felt too soft, it felt more over assisted than my old M5.

The engine note is lovely, the high revving V8 is really nice. However like all high revving cars it often feels slightly slow at lower revs. And you aren't always in the mood to rev the **** off your car.

Strangely I think the C63 was more fun, I think the extra 30 BHP and 100+ torques just gives it that slightly more scary/ make your heart beat faster appeal. The steering iirc also felt better.

After driving the M3 I tried to drive the C63 AMG straight after (the two dealers are opposite each other!) to do a back to back comparison. Unfortunately the car was out.

I'll be driving the XFR on Saturday

Matteeboy

Reckon the AMG would suit you better Ding - I know a few who have gone from 335d/335i to M3 and been a little annoyed at how hard the M3 needs stoking to get it going properly quickly. Only 295lbs-ft - the Merc has MUCH more.

XFR should be very nice but the Merc sounds and looks better.

New XJ SuperSport getting belting write ups in Evo.