Another happy RaceDynamix customer - on an ESL
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#64
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As it happens, I've spoken to Duncan and he can see exactly where I'm coming from, and so can everybody else it seems.
Duncan doesn't need you riding to his rescue. Let's face it, he'd have to be pretty shallow to rely on you wouldn't he?
Why would I want to undermine Duncan? I own a garage in Devon, I don't run around with a laptop. Please explain your thinking.
Assuming you're actually thinking that is.
Please read it all again without blowing a blood vessel.
When you have, consider this.
My view, now backed up by several other tuners, is that a slanty top mount is basically inadequate for that application. I'd be willing to bet that if somebody else read that first post, then assumed it was ok to run at 325 bhp with a slanty one, they'd come unstuck, engine wise. People tend to see what they read in here as gospel, instead of it all being subject to detail.
I agree I should have just come out and said all that to start with, but at the time I was sat with a laptop on my lap, eating cornflakes and I was late already. My eyebrows went up at the idea of it being ok to run that much power on a skinny top mount. That's why I said "sweepstake anyone"?
Now go sit down with a cuppa, and you'll feel much better.
#65
Change the record Alan If only i had a pound for everytime ive read those words in a post of yours.
Scoobynet is getting worse and worse for Tuners trying to score points against one another....is work really that tight?
Scoobynet is getting worse and worse for Tuners trying to score points against one another....is work really that tight?
#66
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Nowhere have I passed comment on the mapping..
Going back to the point, does anybody else think that it's ok to run a slanty top mount at the level?
Last edited by Alan Jeffery; 09 April 2011 at 01:39 PM. Reason: clarity
#67
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I think we are all missing the main point on this.
Was the OP told of the potential risks to his car by running with a suspect fuel pump and a slanty top mount?? He should of also been told that it was potentialy damagaing to his car. I'm sure Duncan would of told him, and if he was happy to run the map on the car with those defects in place and risk it, then that's his choice.
I don't think anybody would disagree with Alan that a slanty top mount and dodgy fuel pump would be something that would leave a tuning company (such as his) as was, and then be mapped to 325Bhp. Duncan is afterall a mapper who wouldn't have a fuel pump with him or even the tools to change it.
Was the OP told of the potential risks to his car by running with a suspect fuel pump and a slanty top mount?? He should of also been told that it was potentialy damagaing to his car. I'm sure Duncan would of told him, and if he was happy to run the map on the car with those defects in place and risk it, then that's his choice.
I don't think anybody would disagree with Alan that a slanty top mount and dodgy fuel pump would be something that would leave a tuning company (such as his) as was, and then be mapped to 325Bhp. Duncan is afterall a mapper who wouldn't have a fuel pump with him or even the tools to change it.
#68
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I assume you also believe the Royals killed Diana?
As it happens, I've spoken to Duncan and he can see exactly where I'm coming from, and so can everybody else it seems.
Duncan doesn't need you riding to his rescue. Let's face it, he'd have to be pretty shallow to rely on you wouldn't he?
Why would I want to undermine Duncan? I own a garage in Devon, I don't run around with a laptop. Please explain your thinking.
Assuming you're actually thinking that is.
Please read it all again without blowing a blood vessel.
When you have, consider this.
My view, now backed up by several other tuners, is that a slanty top mount is basically inadequate for that application. I'd be willing to bet that if somebody else read that first post, then assumed it was ok to run at 325 bhp with a slanty one, they'd come unstuck, engine wise. People tend to see what they read in here as gospel, instead of it all being subject to detail.
I agree I should have just come out and said all that to start with, but at the time I was sat with a laptop on my lap, eating cornflakes and I was late already. My eyebrows went up at the idea of it being ok to run that much power on a skinny top mount. That's why I said "sweepstake anyone"?
Now go sit down with a cuppa, and you'll feel much better.
As it happens, I've spoken to Duncan and he can see exactly where I'm coming from, and so can everybody else it seems.
Duncan doesn't need you riding to his rescue. Let's face it, he'd have to be pretty shallow to rely on you wouldn't he?
Why would I want to undermine Duncan? I own a garage in Devon, I don't run around with a laptop. Please explain your thinking.
Assuming you're actually thinking that is.
Please read it all again without blowing a blood vessel.
When you have, consider this.
My view, now backed up by several other tuners, is that a slanty top mount is basically inadequate for that application. I'd be willing to bet that if somebody else read that first post, then assumed it was ok to run at 325 bhp with a slanty one, they'd come unstuck, engine wise. People tend to see what they read in here as gospel, instead of it all being subject to detail.
I agree I should have just come out and said all that to start with, but at the time I was sat with a laptop on my lap, eating cornflakes and I was late already. My eyebrows went up at the idea of it being ok to run that much power on a skinny top mount. That's why I said "sweepstake anyone"?
Now go sit down with a cuppa, and you'll feel much better.
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Alan, you seem to have forgotten the other half of our conversation
Maybe it is the lovely Devon sun ..
Take your average 16yr old engine with 16yr heads and 16yr old pitted valve seats and map that to 280bhp. Run that same boost profile and ignition through a nicely built engine and add in some lovely worked heads. Please can you explain how the charge temps will alter ? But yet we would both agree that the built engine and fancy heads would be more efficient and thus produce more power.
All would agree that heads and valves would make it more efficient - same as on mine where it will produce more power but we never get to see the benefit of this kind of head work on dare I say it lower power builds. Maybe we just have ?
Maybe it is the lovely Devon sun ..
Take your average 16yr old engine with 16yr heads and 16yr old pitted valve seats and map that to 280bhp. Run that same boost profile and ignition through a nicely built engine and add in some lovely worked heads. Please can you explain how the charge temps will alter ? But yet we would both agree that the built engine and fancy heads would be more efficient and thus produce more power.
All would agree that heads and valves would make it more efficient - same as on mine where it will produce more power but we never get to see the benefit of this kind of head work on dare I say it lower power builds. Maybe we just have ?
#73
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Tut.
It isn't about the power output as such. In any event, the boost is generated between the compressor outlet and the intake valve at WOT. A leaky valve could reduce boost, but only by an amount you'd find hard to measure. The direct effect on charge temps would be minimal. Charge temps are about compressor output and the effect of compressing air. (Heat)
More output from a compressor equals more heat.
Inlet valve seating is more important on a normally aspirated car than a turbo when it comes to power output. Bear in mind it's a big vac pump!
Improving head flow only really works on a turbo if you have a large enough turbine to allow the free passage of exhaust gas. It's why our 2.1/GT35/42 with stock heads produces 530 bhp on V Power, and our gas flowed version puts out 630 bhp on V Power.
I asked if you'd checked the charge temps out of that crappy little intercooler and you said you hadn't. That makes me feel you just don't know either way.
Of course, if you'd advised him to fit a larger intercooler, just to be on the safe side and he decided not to, that's his choice!
As I said on the 'phone, he can have an STi one cheap. I have several!
My message is the same, don't run a slanty at 325.
It isn't about the power output as such. In any event, the boost is generated between the compressor outlet and the intake valve at WOT. A leaky valve could reduce boost, but only by an amount you'd find hard to measure. The direct effect on charge temps would be minimal. Charge temps are about compressor output and the effect of compressing air. (Heat)
More output from a compressor equals more heat.
Inlet valve seating is more important on a normally aspirated car than a turbo when it comes to power output. Bear in mind it's a big vac pump!
Improving head flow only really works on a turbo if you have a large enough turbine to allow the free passage of exhaust gas. It's why our 2.1/GT35/42 with stock heads produces 530 bhp on V Power, and our gas flowed version puts out 630 bhp on V Power.
I asked if you'd checked the charge temps out of that crappy little intercooler and you said you hadn't. That makes me feel you just don't know either way.
Of course, if you'd advised him to fit a larger intercooler, just to be on the safe side and he decided not to, that's his choice!
As I said on the 'phone, he can have an STi one cheap. I have several!
My message is the same, don't run a slanty at 325.
#74
Christ what a hornets nest i stuck my hand in!!
To clarify a couple of points,
I told Duncan quite specifically that i dont go tearing around on full boost all the while, in fact since the engine was rebuilt it hasnt seen above 4500 rpm and 0.5 bar boost until the re map.
I am quite aware of the issues involved with small intercoolers, especially having read some of alcazar's posts, and yes i'd love a bigger intercooler, but without going to a front mount as i dont want to spoil the look of the front of the car. Sadly having decided to rescue this genuine original V2 STI 555 and spending horrendouslyl over my budget to date, its not something i can afford at the moment. There should be a law against wallet rape???
I am quite suprised however that Subaru would sell a car with 276hp out of the box when the intercooler is only capable of 280?? given that most engine manufacturers will give a power figure of plus or minus 5%- 10% surely this would cause some problems?
With regard to the fuel pump issue, Duncan actually adjusted the map following the dyno print out i showed, and a new date has been arranged for the guy to sort that out for me, unfortunately Weston/RevIt didn't have a replacement pump in stock at the time of the remap.
With regard to air intake temperatures and fuelling parameters i am out of my depth, however, i will comment that the turbo blanket does a very good job of reducing underbonnet temps, therefore i would say increasing the efficiency of any cold air in/around the pissy little slanty intercooler, even after the dyno run you can put your hand on the blanket (carefully) and yes its hot but not too hot to touch.
I also forgot to mention in my spec that the up pipe is heat wrapped also.
So, i have to re-iterate my original post that my personal experience with Duncan is that he is a very good mapper, very easy to get along with, and for me he has gone out of his way to map my car for me.
Lets not forget this is an early classic and not exactly bread and butter mapping with ecutek/simtek etc, there cant be too many people asking for an ESL to be fitted these days.
I would also like to take this opportunity to thank David at API for helping me out and doing a cracking job of my engine re-build.
Thank you to Graham, AKA-Enginemapper for supplying me a great set of heads, incidently he is also a very knowledgeable guy and easy to get along with, he took the time to show me his workshop and some of the stuff he had going on at the time.
Thanks to Mark, Chris and the young guy (can't remember his name) at Thwaites Developments who stayed late and sorted a couple of issues, including replacing the up pipe.
Some interesting reading in this thread!!!
Andy
To clarify a couple of points,
I told Duncan quite specifically that i dont go tearing around on full boost all the while, in fact since the engine was rebuilt it hasnt seen above 4500 rpm and 0.5 bar boost until the re map.
I am quite aware of the issues involved with small intercoolers, especially having read some of alcazar's posts, and yes i'd love a bigger intercooler, but without going to a front mount as i dont want to spoil the look of the front of the car. Sadly having decided to rescue this genuine original V2 STI 555 and spending horrendouslyl over my budget to date, its not something i can afford at the moment. There should be a law against wallet rape???
I am quite suprised however that Subaru would sell a car with 276hp out of the box when the intercooler is only capable of 280?? given that most engine manufacturers will give a power figure of plus or minus 5%- 10% surely this would cause some problems?
With regard to the fuel pump issue, Duncan actually adjusted the map following the dyno print out i showed, and a new date has been arranged for the guy to sort that out for me, unfortunately Weston/RevIt didn't have a replacement pump in stock at the time of the remap.
With regard to air intake temperatures and fuelling parameters i am out of my depth, however, i will comment that the turbo blanket does a very good job of reducing underbonnet temps, therefore i would say increasing the efficiency of any cold air in/around the pissy little slanty intercooler, even after the dyno run you can put your hand on the blanket (carefully) and yes its hot but not too hot to touch.
I also forgot to mention in my spec that the up pipe is heat wrapped also.
So, i have to re-iterate my original post that my personal experience with Duncan is that he is a very good mapper, very easy to get along with, and for me he has gone out of his way to map my car for me.
Lets not forget this is an early classic and not exactly bread and butter mapping with ecutek/simtek etc, there cant be too many people asking for an ESL to be fitted these days.
I would also like to take this opportunity to thank David at API for helping me out and doing a cracking job of my engine re-build.
Thank you to Graham, AKA-Enginemapper for supplying me a great set of heads, incidently he is also a very knowledgeable guy and easy to get along with, he took the time to show me his workshop and some of the stuff he had going on at the time.
Thanks to Mark, Chris and the young guy (can't remember his name) at Thwaites Developments who stayed late and sorted a couple of issues, including replacing the up pipe.
Some interesting reading in this thread!!!
Andy
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Tuners, more like a bunch of fecking big girls.... I've never cringed so much as I have reading the point scoring attempts on here.... business can't be that great if they spend so much time slagging each other off on here
#76
I have an air charge temperature gauge fitted to my classic STI top mount and I am so
glad I have it to keep an eye on things, I can't comment on anything else as I don't
know enough
glad I have it to keep an eye on things, I can't comment on anything else as I don't
know enough
#77
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Christ what a hornets nest i stuck my hand in!!
To clarify a couple of points,
I told Duncan quite specifically that i dont go tearing around on full boost all the while, in fact since the engine was rebuilt it hasnt seen above 4500 rpm and 0.5 bar boost until the re map.
I am quite aware of the issues involved with small intercoolers, especially having read some of alcazar's posts, and yes i'd love a bigger intercooler, but without going to a front mount as i dont want to spoil the look of the front of the car. Sadly having decided to rescue this genuine original V2 STI 555 and spending horrendouslyl over my budget to date, its not something i can afford at the moment. There should be a law against wallet rape???
I am quite suprised however that Subaru would sell a car with 276hp out of the box when the intercooler is only capable of 280?? given that most engine manufacturers will give a power figure of plus or minus 5%- 10% surely this would cause some problems?
With regard to the fuel pump issue, Duncan actually adjusted the map following the dyno print out i showed, and a new date has been arranged for the guy to sort that out for me, unfortunately Weston/RevIt didn't have a replacement pump in stock at the time of the remap.
With regard to air intake temperatures and fuelling parameters i am out of my depth, however, i will comment that the turbo blanket does a very good job of reducing underbonnet temps, therefore i would say increasing the efficiency of any cold air in/around the pissy little slanty intercooler, even after the dyno run you can put your hand on the blanket (carefully) and yes its hot but not too hot to touch.
I also forgot to mention in my spec that the up pipe is heat wrapped also.
So, i have to re-iterate my original post that my personal experience with Duncan is that he is a very good mapper, very easy to get along with, and for me he has gone out of his way to map my car for me.
Lets not forget this is an early classic and not exactly bread and butter mapping with ecutek/simtek etc, there cant be too many people asking for an ESL to be fitted these days.
I would also like to take this opportunity to thank David at API for helping me out and doing a cracking job of my engine re-build.
Thank you to Graham, AKA-Enginemapper for supplying me a great set of heads, incidently he is also a very knowledgeable guy and easy to get along with, he took the time to show me his workshop and some of the stuff he had going on at the time.
Thanks to Mark, Chris and the young guy (can't remember his name) at Thwaites Developments who stayed late and sorted a couple of issues, including replacing the up pipe.
Some interesting reading in this thread!!!
Andy
To clarify a couple of points,
I told Duncan quite specifically that i dont go tearing around on full boost all the while, in fact since the engine was rebuilt it hasnt seen above 4500 rpm and 0.5 bar boost until the re map.
I am quite aware of the issues involved with small intercoolers, especially having read some of alcazar's posts, and yes i'd love a bigger intercooler, but without going to a front mount as i dont want to spoil the look of the front of the car. Sadly having decided to rescue this genuine original V2 STI 555 and spending horrendouslyl over my budget to date, its not something i can afford at the moment. There should be a law against wallet rape???
I am quite suprised however that Subaru would sell a car with 276hp out of the box when the intercooler is only capable of 280?? given that most engine manufacturers will give a power figure of plus or minus 5%- 10% surely this would cause some problems?
With regard to the fuel pump issue, Duncan actually adjusted the map following the dyno print out i showed, and a new date has been arranged for the guy to sort that out for me, unfortunately Weston/RevIt didn't have a replacement pump in stock at the time of the remap.
With regard to air intake temperatures and fuelling parameters i am out of my depth, however, i will comment that the turbo blanket does a very good job of reducing underbonnet temps, therefore i would say increasing the efficiency of any cold air in/around the pissy little slanty intercooler, even after the dyno run you can put your hand on the blanket (carefully) and yes its hot but not too hot to touch.
I also forgot to mention in my spec that the up pipe is heat wrapped also.
So, i have to re-iterate my original post that my personal experience with Duncan is that he is a very good mapper, very easy to get along with, and for me he has gone out of his way to map my car for me.
Lets not forget this is an early classic and not exactly bread and butter mapping with ecutek/simtek etc, there cant be too many people asking for an ESL to be fitted these days.
I would also like to take this opportunity to thank David at API for helping me out and doing a cracking job of my engine re-build.
Thank you to Graham, AKA-Enginemapper for supplying me a great set of heads, incidently he is also a very knowledgeable guy and easy to get along with, he took the time to show me his workshop and some of the stuff he had going on at the time.
Thanks to Mark, Chris and the young guy (can't remember his name) at Thwaites Developments who stayed late and sorted a couple of issues, including replacing the up pipe.
Some interesting reading in this thread!!!
Andy
I have several STi intercoolers that would suit you perfectly. If you'd like one, just give me a PM. It'll be cheap!
#78
Unbelievable! i think some of the other tuners in regards to Duncan's mapping are all rather underhand and unnecessary -the op was extremely happy with his car and the results! and the 'bet' comment was rather petty as we all realise that with tuning cars you are undertaking a risk.
#79
i have a temperature gauge on my top mount too. quiet interesting to read of the temps in different scenarios, like at my last dyno run where it measured 50 celcius!
even after sat been at the lights for 3 mins it doesnt get that high.
the op is almost right about the slanty top mount and the oe max power. oe max power used in conjunction with a slanty top mount was 275ps, as used in the sti versions.
even after sat been at the lights for 3 mins it doesnt get that high.
the op is almost right about the slanty top mount and the oe max power. oe max power used in conjunction with a slanty top mount was 275ps, as used in the sti versions.
#80
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I've just had a cup of tea plonked down in front of me, so I'll expand on the thinking here.
Going back a couple of decades ago I had a guy come in with an RS Turbo Escort.
I popped it on the dyno and ran it up. 1.9 bar boost from a standard turbo and intercooler, pi$$ weak! Jesus.. I sorted that one out pronto, dealt with his boost control issues, set up timing and fuelling. 1 bar boost on his bog standard Superchip. 160 bhp. Lovely jubbly.
Was he pleased? was he heck. He came back moaning like mad about how it was "faster" before I worked on it. Couldn't see where I was coming from no matter how carefully I attempted to explain it in plain English.
Whatever, I stuck to my guns knowing damn well he'd be all over me like a rash when his engine blew up.
Sometimes, the message you have to give a customer isn't what they want to hear, but it's my job to just spell it out regardless.
Going back a couple of decades ago I had a guy come in with an RS Turbo Escort.
I popped it on the dyno and ran it up. 1.9 bar boost from a standard turbo and intercooler, pi$$ weak! Jesus.. I sorted that one out pronto, dealt with his boost control issues, set up timing and fuelling. 1 bar boost on his bog standard Superchip. 160 bhp. Lovely jubbly.
Was he pleased? was he heck. He came back moaning like mad about how it was "faster" before I worked on it. Couldn't see where I was coming from no matter how carefully I attempted to explain it in plain English.
Whatever, I stuck to my guns knowing damn well he'd be all over me like a rash when his engine blew up.
Sometimes, the message you have to give a customer isn't what they want to hear, but it's my job to just spell it out regardless.
But on the other hand im sure Duncan has explained things to the OP as he does know his stuff, I was happy with what he did for me and he did explain things and corrected me where i was wrong etc pointed out what i needed next and was generally knowlegable and helpfull.
This thread has turned into a slanging match lol. There is no need really. This is only my opinion but i would stay clear of any company which uses slating another as a sales tactic. Concentrate on your own companies posatives instead of others negatives that way your stuff sells itself.
At the same time issues raised are legitamate i just think "its not what you say its how you say it"
Last edited by JAutos; 09 April 2011 at 11:39 PM.
#81
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Tut.
It isn't about the power output as such. In any event, the boost is generated between the compressor outlet and the intake valve at WOT. A leaky valve could reduce boost, but only by an amount you'd find hard to measure. The direct effect on charge temps would be minimal. Charge temps are about compressor output and the effect of compressing air. (Heat)
More output from a compressor equals more heat.
It isn't about the power output as such. In any event, the boost is generated between the compressor outlet and the intake valve at WOT. A leaky valve could reduce boost, but only by an amount you'd find hard to measure. The direct effect on charge temps would be minimal. Charge temps are about compressor output and the effect of compressing air. (Heat)
More output from a compressor equals more heat.
#82
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I totally agree on this particular statement. YOU CANT EDUCATE PORK LOL.
But on the other hand im sure Duncan has explained things to the OP as he does know his stuff, I was happy with what he did for me and he did explain things and corrected me where i was wrong etc pointed out what i needed next and was generally knowlegable and helpfull.
This thread has turned into a slanging match lol. There is no need really. This is only my opinion but i would stay clear of any company which uses slating another as a sales tactic. Concentrate on your own companies posatives instead of others negatives that way your stuff sells itself.
At the same time issues raised are legitamate i just think "its not what you say its how you say it"
But on the other hand im sure Duncan has explained things to the OP as he does know his stuff, I was happy with what he did for me and he did explain things and corrected me where i was wrong etc pointed out what i needed next and was generally knowlegable and helpfull.
This thread has turned into a slanging match lol. There is no need really. This is only my opinion but i would stay clear of any company which uses slating another as a sales tactic. Concentrate on your own companies posatives instead of others negatives that way your stuff sells itself.
At the same time issues raised are legitamate i just think "its not what you say its how you say it"
I haven't made a single statement that is either incorrect, or slagging off anybody's work. I think the OP should have a better intercooler, and privately, we're dealing with that one.
By the way, Duncan and I are not "slanging" each other. Go read it all again.
#83
Its the way comments have come across tho isnt it-one person has stayed dignified through this topic and others havent-its shown me who's got more 'feel' for their customers.
#84
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I totally agree on this particular statement. YOU CANT EDUCATE PORK LOL.
But on the other hand im sure Duncan has explained things to the OP as he does know his stuff, I was happy with what he did for me and he did explain things and corrected me where i was wrong etc pointed out what i needed next and was generally knowlegable and helpfull.
This thread has turned into a slanging match lol. There is no need really. This is only my opinion but i would stay clear of any company which uses slating another as a sales tactic. Concentrate on your own companies posatives instead of others negatives that way your stuff sells itself.
At the same time issues raised are legitamate i just think "its not what you say its how you say it"
But on the other hand im sure Duncan has explained things to the OP as he does know his stuff, I was happy with what he did for me and he did explain things and corrected me where i was wrong etc pointed out what i needed next and was generally knowlegable and helpfull.
This thread has turned into a slanging match lol. There is no need really. This is only my opinion but i would stay clear of any company which uses slating another as a sales tactic. Concentrate on your own companies posatives instead of others negatives that way your stuff sells itself.
At the same time issues raised are legitamate i just think "its not what you say its how you say it"
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There is no slagging or bitching going on here i can see! I have had dealings, weather it be work carried out, supplying parts, advice or just general banter with all of the mappers/tuners mentioned in this thread and i can honestly say ALL of them are very professional, helpful and bend over backwards to make sure you are getting the best service possible
Scott.
Scott.
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Please give me your opinion on that statement.
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There is nothing at all wrong in being forthright or even blunt in your posts if you have the knowledge and experience to back them up.
I would rather have a blunt but correct response than one that ***** foots around is ultimately flawed, this post is not aimed at this thread and no individual who has posted on this thread either.
I would rather have a blunt but correct response than one that ***** foots around is ultimately flawed, this post is not aimed at this thread and no individual who has posted on this thread either.
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I'll try one last time to explain my position on this post.
I read a line that said that the OP was pleased that his car made 325 bhp despite only running a slanty.
My reaction was the same as hearing that somebody was chuffed that they were able to go absailing over a 100 foot cliff using a washing line rope and got away with it.
I haven't heard from anybody yet who thinks it's ok to use a slanty for a 325 bhp car, given the choice of an alternative. Graham said "no, of course not" We would veto mapping a car in that condition to that level. That's our choice.
During my early telephone conversation with Duncan, who I get on fine with, I offered a cheap intercooler to rectify that situation. I've since discussed the matter with the OP via PM.
Facts are facts.
I'm sure Duncan will back up what I just said, and why I said it.
I read a line that said that the OP was pleased that his car made 325 bhp despite only running a slanty.
My reaction was the same as hearing that somebody was chuffed that they were able to go absailing over a 100 foot cliff using a washing line rope and got away with it.
I haven't heard from anybody yet who thinks it's ok to use a slanty for a 325 bhp car, given the choice of an alternative. Graham said "no, of course not" We would veto mapping a car in that condition to that level. That's our choice.
During my early telephone conversation with Duncan, who I get on fine with, I offered a cheap intercooler to rectify that situation. I've since discussed the matter with the OP via PM.
Facts are facts.
I'm sure Duncan will back up what I just said, and why I said it.
#90