Another happy RaceDynamix customer - on an ESL
.You are not aloud to make mistakes you are sub human didnt you know.
08 April 2011, 01:56 PM
#32
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As the token lunatic running >2 bar of boost on my std. STI motor... 
I agree with A.J.
Fast is good, reliable is better...
dunx
P.S. Now go and get on with the paperwork
I agree with A.J.
Fast is good, reliable is better...
dunx
P.S. Now go and get on with the paperwork
08 April 2011, 02:01 PM
#33
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08 April 2011, 02:18 PM
#36
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Like the guy who drove all the way here from Norfolk recently?
I won't say who'd been there before us.
I won't say who'd been there before us.
08 April 2011, 02:51 PM
#39
The nature of our business is that customers move around like several of your customers approaching me ... It is the way the world works but I just get on with my job and try to stay out of mud slinging contests as entertaining as they are sometimes
Just an observation with regards to power do you think engine efficiency had a negative effect on charge temps ? Surely your heads that are on the OPs car are making it better breathing both in and out and therefore able to make more power from the same charge as it will be cleaner (with no change on temp)
08 April 2011, 02:57 PM
#40
Was he unhappy with what I had done Alan ? Not to my knowledge he wasn't and was asking for my advice right uP until (and after) the point at which you convinced him to part with several thousand pound for a fully built engIne, turbo and remapping to get to 440bhp. I am not bitter about it as I know he got exactly what he wanted and it is a great car. Shame he didn't run on our dyno day up in Norwich.
The nature of our business is that customers move around like several of your customers approaching me ... It is the way the world works but I just get on with my job and try to stay out of mud slinging contests as entertaining as they are sometimes
Just an observation with regards to power do you think engine efficiency had a negative effect on charge temps ? Surely your heads that are on the OPs car are making it better breathing both in and out and therefore able to make more power from the same charge as it will be cleaner (with no change on temp)
The nature of our business is that customers move around like several of your customers approaching me ... It is the way the world works but I just get on with my job and try to stay out of mud slinging contests as entertaining as they are sometimes
Just an observation with regards to power do you think engine efficiency had a negative effect on charge temps ? Surely your heads that are on the OPs car are making it better breathing both in and out and therefore able to make more power from the same charge as it will be cleaner (with no change on temp)
08 April 2011, 03:41 PM
#42
There will always be people who go from tuner to tuner with complaints and things going wrong. There's never a need to mud sling though
Big power from a slanty mount there Duncan, if the owner buys a decent TMIC and fuel pump I imagine power wouldn't go up much but would definitely make it more reliable!
Big power from a slanty mount there Duncan, if the owner buys a decent TMIC and fuel pump I imagine power wouldn't go up much but would definitely make it more reliable!
08 April 2011, 03:44 PM
#43
Engine Specialist
Alan, Simon, the fact is you have posted a deliberately instrumented comment that undermines the work that Duncan has done and the results. I'm not saying I'm on Duncan's side here, but I quite agree that posts between competitors should be with respect regardless of your thoughts or prior dealings with those. Perhaps you were clumsy Alan as you put it, but it looked to me like a carefully instrumented comment to provoke others into critism of the work.
As the flip side of the argument, I ran my old GC8 CDB engine in a track/race/rally car with jacked open throttle and anti-lag full time on the original slanty intercooler. It was 320bhp and was quite happy all day long being beasted by my right foot and extreme temperatures. Ok IAT retard strategy had to be sound but it worked quite fine. No doubt a larger intercooler would have produced more and reduced intake temperatures, but I was limited at the time by certain rules at events.
I'm not condoning the comments made about the intercooler in this thread, but we don't know this customer isn't limited by a set of rules competition wise?
Graham
08 April 2011, 03:51 PM
#44
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Was he unhappy with what I had done Alan ? Not to my knowledge he wasn't and was asking for my advice right uP until (and after) the point at which you convinced him to part with several thousand pound for a fully built engIne, turbo and remapping to get to 440bhp. I am not bitter about it as I know he got exactly what he wanted and it is a great car. Shame he didn't run on our dyno day up in Norwich.
The nature of our business is that customers move around like several of your customers approaching me ... It is the way the world works but I just get on with my job and try to stay out of mud slinging contests as entertaining as they are sometimes
Just an observation with regards to power do you think engine efficiency had a negative effect on charge temps ? Surely your heads that are on the OPs car are making it better breathing both in and out and therefore able to make more power from the same charge as it will be cleaner (with no change on temp)
The nature of our business is that customers move around like several of your customers approaching me ... It is the way the world works but I just get on with my job and try to stay out of mud slinging contests as entertaining as they are sometimes
Just an observation with regards to power do you think engine efficiency had a negative effect on charge temps ? Surely your heads that are on the OPs car are making it better breathing both in and out and therefore able to make more power from the same charge as it will be cleaner (with no change on temp)
When you called and left a message yesterday I tried a few times to get back to you and I also left you a message to call me.
We didn't persuade anybody to do anything. I was asked to carry out work which we duly did. Very successfully. We didn't build him an engine, as we told him he didn't actually need one. He might want one eventually, but only in a moving on kind of way.
The details of any conversation I had with any customer will remain private.
It isn't possible to get on with everybody, even Mother Teresa has her knockers.. (I think that's what I meant to say!)
Re charge temps. We know from monitoring these issues that it's a big deal with tuned Imprezas. Of course you know this. We have to have some kind of rule of thumb on the basis of what has stood us in good stead previously.
On spec, we wouldn't go over 280 bhp or so, tops, if the owner has a slanty top mount. My eyebrows went up when I saw 325. I've no doubt that the car would be absolutely fine on an STi3 or similar. If he wants one, he can have one cheap, I'd rather do that than see him "happily" running about on that tenny weeny one.
My comments are NOT a critique on your mapping skills. I wouldn't presume to attempt to tell you how to map a car, as I don't do it, Martyn does. In any event, you have your customer base, and good on you. I'd say we have different demographics in any event, running completely different businesses.
It's just that we would rather have told the OP that we'd prefer to wait until he had an intercooler on his car that would be commensurate with the amount of boost/ignition/power he wanted to run before we'd mapped it. Maybe you said all that to him, I don't know?
08 April 2011, 04:01 PM
#46
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True I did, I cannot make claim to the porting on them however as I had bought them myself from another party which had told me they were done by Zero Sports in Japan!
Alan, Simon, the fact is you have posted a deliberately instrumented comment that undermines the work that Duncan has done and the results. I'm not saying I'm on Duncan's side here, but I quite agree that posts between competitors should be with respect regardless of your thoughts or prior dealings with those. Perhaps you were clumsy Alan as you put it, but it looked to me like a carefully instrumented comment to provoke others into critism of the work.
As the flip side of the argument, I ran my old GC8 CDB engine in a track/race/rally car with jacked open throttle and anti-lag full time on the original slanty intercooler. It was 320bhp and was quite happy all day long being beasted by my right foot and extreme temperatures. Ok IAT retard strategy had to be sound but it worked quite fine. No doubt a larger intercooler would have produced more and reduced intake temperatures, but I was limited at the time by certain rules at events.
I'm not condoning the comments made about the intercooler in this thread, but we don't know this customer isn't limited by a set of rules competition wise?
Graham
Alan, Simon, the fact is you have posted a deliberately instrumented comment that undermines the work that Duncan has done and the results. I'm not saying I'm on Duncan's side here, but I quite agree that posts between competitors should be with respect regardless of your thoughts or prior dealings with those. Perhaps you were clumsy Alan as you put it, but it looked to me like a carefully instrumented comment to provoke others into critism of the work.
As the flip side of the argument, I ran my old GC8 CDB engine in a track/race/rally car with jacked open throttle and anti-lag full time on the original slanty intercooler. It was 320bhp and was quite happy all day long being beasted by my right foot and extreme temperatures. Ok IAT retard strategy had to be sound but it worked quite fine. No doubt a larger intercooler would have produced more and reduced intake temperatures, but I was limited at the time by certain rules at events.
I'm not condoning the comments made about the intercooler in this thread, but we don't know this customer isn't limited by a set of rules competition wise?
Graham
OK, just for clarity, would both you and Duncan say it's ok for anybody to run around at up to 325 bhp on a slanty top mount? What does David at APi think?
Am I being over cautious? you tell me..
08 April 2011, 04:02 PM
#47
Engine Specialist
08 April 2011, 04:13 PM
#48
Engine Specialist
Of course as you know Graham, this set up doesn't have the benefit of charge temp monitored retard. Nobody said anything about competition use, but of course I'd stand corrected.
OK, just for clarity, would both you and Duncan say it's ok for anybody to run around at up to 325 bhp on a slanty top mount? What does David at APi think?
Am I being over cautious? you tell me..
OK, just for clarity, would both you and Duncan say it's ok for anybody to run around at up to 325 bhp on a slanty top mount? What does David at APi think?
Am I being over cautious? you tell me..
ESL still retains the original knock retard strategy, (ok a little 'after the event') but if necessary can be mapped for expected temps and used as a last resort correction. Not recommended of course!
You will of course know that compromises have to be made by even the wealthiest of race/rally teams dictated by rules, money or time as I know too well and a customer is no different.
Graham
08 April 2011, 04:32 PM
#49
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You're excused!
08 April 2011, 09:24 PM
#51
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Just a quick clarification - the ESL Mafless version does provide support for IAT corrections. It needs a 0-5 volt output proportional to temperature, fed into the (now redundant) MAF signal line. The mapping software is a bit cryptic on this at the moment but it is possible to do - with the imminent mapping software update this will be improved and a bit more tuner-friendly. ESL MAF version does not support IAT corrections.
As Graham correctly notes, the ESL board also retains the standard active knock control, so you can get belt and braces.
For the 97/98 question - very very close! There is no date yet, although the hardware has been running a number of cars over the last six months without issues. It should roll out with the above mapping software update, just a few wrinkles left to iron out...
As Graham correctly notes, the ESL board also retains the standard active knock control, so you can get belt and braces.
For the 97/98 question - very very close! There is no date yet, although the hardware has been running a number of cars over the last six months without issues. It should roll out with the above mapping software update, just a few wrinkles left to iron out...
08 April 2011, 10:34 PM
#52
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It seems to me that the defining problem here is that the amount of power the op has achieved is not safe for longevity on a slanty type intercooler, if the mapper is aware of this, which he surely would and should be, why has he continued to map the car to that level knowing the possible and more than likely inevitable outcome???
08 April 2011, 10:47 PM
#53
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It seems to me that the defining problem here is that the amount of power the op has achieved is not safe for longevity on a slanty type intercooler, if the mapper is aware of this, which he surely would and should be, why has he continued to map the car to that level knowing the possible and more than likely inevitable outcome???
Simon
09 April 2011, 09:34 AM
#54
Engine Specialist
I cannot disagree with this statement Simon! Mapping a failing fuel pump is kinda useless as when replaced it will be much richer up top and need to be corrected not to mention it may lean out in the mean time.
Graham
Last edited by EngineMapper @ Group B Motorsport; 09 April 2011 at 09:37 AM.
09 April 2011, 10:09 AM
#55
It seems to me that the defining problem here is that the amount of power the op has achieved is not safe for longevity on a slanty type intercooler, if the mapper is aware of this, which he surely would and should be, why has he continued to map the car to that level knowing the possible and more than likely inevitable outcome???
09 April 2011, 10:23 AM
#56
agree, as soon as the problem with the pump was found the base map or standard ecu should have been refitted until the pump was replaced. why send a car away running all that power with a weak/failing pump. i dont see the point if its gonna have to come back anyway. it just leaves the car in a state of increased risk, especially when the owner has just spent all that money on a rebuild. it only leaves the mapper open to blame if anything does go worng.
09 April 2011, 10:28 AM
#57
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Nowt wrong with what Dunc's done here in my eye's other than get a great result on what set-up would normally produce a lesser result
09 April 2011, 10:28 AM
#58
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Actually all the good tuners & mappers do care about peoples engines, if we get a car on the dyno with a worn pump it is sacked immediately or pump replaced before we proceed.
As stated by Simon, if customer cannot afford a pump or wishes to sort it at a later date he gets sent out on actuator pressure with a warning to avoid the top end of the rev range and keep off boost.
The above is not to have a dig or Knock the O.P.'s original post, just make sure the O.P. drives it carefully until the pump is dealt with as its most likely to get leaner as time goes on and trust me I have seen the worn pumps decline rapidly.
cheers
Kev