"Back to the future," in a JDM STI Ver-9 Widetrack
23 August 2013, 11:22 AM
#482
Will probably swop over top mount plates (to gain more castor) when I eventually have to rebuild the shocks I think. But for the moment turn in is pretty sharp with the -2.1 neg camber & I now do no more than 750 road miles per year so not too concerned with inside edge tyre wear!
23 August 2013, 11:27 AM
#483
Donington National Circuit Trackday Aug 2013
Great day at Donington with ETC & MSOC & organised through Opentrack. One of the best track days yet, perfect weather, good company, amazing flowing track, no mishaps & car performed superbly.
Great day at Donington with ETC & MSOC & organised through Opentrack. One of the best track days yet, perfect weather, good company, amazing flowing track, no mishaps & car performed superbly.
23 August 2013, 11:55 AM
#484
Donington feedback & way forward!
Donington was just the thing needed for me to figure out "the way forward" or what next. In terms of what what I want out of it all & therefore what needs changing / tweaking on the car to work towards that. What I have decided is that I definitely love doing trackdays & will now keep this car for the long run, solely for that purpose That will mean almost zero road miles (only to get to & fro trackdays & the odd show & MSOC meet) & I can go crazy & tear up the car to make it one trick pony,......sod the resale value etc!!
So with that in mind the biggest & surprisingly only real issue that came out of Donington was how inadequate the std Brembo setup is for a track. This is now the weak link.
Mainly due to poor heat dissipation of the caliper design & the one piece disks. I had to brake almost 50 meters earlier at the end of the Dunlop straight & the pit straight than most of the other sorted cars. I found this especially irritating when the car handled better than the various M3 CSL's, M3, even Cayman S & few other track prepped cars. But lose any distance I had made in these two hard braking zones, they were all over me here! Either I let them go or go in too fast into these two corners just to hold my place, slide it through these corners a a bit untidily, losing time & then try to build up a gap to repeat this all again next lap round!
The other slight thing the Instructor & I commented on, was a little softness / or slight give in handling under hard cornering. But this softness has a bit to do with the wheels/tyre combo. This was the opinion of the instructor Mark Woodhead and mine too (he also tutoured me at Cadwell a few months ago). The 45 profile, the 17"x7.5" wide only rim with small 225 section tyres all contribute to this. I think 18x8.5" wheels with a lower offset e.g. 40 to 37mm, running 245 section tyres will help. Also something like R888's, Nankang track tyres or AD08's will all help cornering grip & speed. Saying that the instructor quite liked the suppleness and forgivness in the setup & thought the 45 profile will dissipate heat a bit better than low profile tyres & much handle better in wet conditions.
The above two issues are also related as I consider what Big brake kit to buy, either to stick to 330mm brake discs/caliper or change up to 356mm? Obviously the 356mm will have a bigger clamping area & higher brake torque than the 330mm. But weighs approx 1kg more per corner & will mean buying bigger 18" wheels (this weight is unsprung & rotational weight). So I will have to buy new 18" light weight track wheels & new 18" track tyres & sell on my brand new 17" Bridgestone Re070 track tyres which can be bought at a much better price than 18" track tyres. Though upgrading to bigger, wider 18"s will reduce this slight softness in handling in my current wheel / tyre setup as described above?????
The brakes in question are below, the new 2013 design D2 6 pot calipers which are a new re design thanks to Bren & Apex/BC & John Felstead who have been testing these out with very good results. They are a big step above the old Ksport 8 pots & these are similar to AP 6 pot design & have proper dust seals too.
http://www.d2brakekits.co.uk/
Donington was just the thing needed for me to figure out "the way forward" or what next. In terms of what what I want out of it all & therefore what needs changing / tweaking on the car to work towards that. What I have decided is that I definitely love doing trackdays & will now keep this car for the long run, solely for that purpose
That will mean almost zero road miles (only to get to & fro trackdays & the odd show & MSOC meet) & I can go crazy & tear up the car to make it one trick pony,......sod the resale value etc!! So with that in mind the biggest & surprisingly only real issue that came out of Donington was how inadequate the std Brembo setup is for a track. This is now the weak link.
Mainly due to poor heat dissipation of the caliper design & the one piece disks. I had to brake almost 50 meters earlier at the end of the Dunlop straight & the pit straight than most of the other sorted cars. I found this especially irritating when the car handled better than the various M3 CSL's, M3, even Cayman S & few other track prepped cars. But lose any distance I had made in these two hard braking zones, they were all over me here! Either I let them go or go in too fast into these two corners just to hold my place, slide it through these corners a a bit untidily, losing time & then try to build up a gap to repeat this all again next lap round! The other slight thing the Instructor & I commented on, was a little softness / or slight give in handling under hard cornering. But this softness has a bit to do with the wheels/tyre combo. This was the opinion of the instructor Mark Woodhead and mine too (he also tutoured me at Cadwell a few months ago). The 45 profile, the 17"x7.5" wide only rim with small 225 section tyres all contribute to this. I think 18x8.5" wheels with a lower offset e.g. 40 to 37mm, running 245 section tyres will help. Also something like R888's, Nankang track tyres or AD08's will all help cornering grip & speed. Saying that the instructor quite liked the suppleness and forgivness in the setup & thought the 45 profile will dissipate heat a bit better than low profile tyres & much handle better in wet conditions.
The above two issues are also related as I consider what Big brake kit to buy, either to stick to 330mm brake discs/caliper or change up to 356mm? Obviously the 356mm will have a bigger clamping area & higher brake torque than the 330mm. But weighs approx 1kg more per corner & will mean buying bigger 18" wheels (this weight is unsprung & rotational weight). So I will have to buy new 18" light weight track wheels & new 18" track tyres & sell on my brand new 17" Bridgestone Re070 track tyres which can be bought at a much better price than 18" track tyres. Though upgrading to bigger, wider 18"s will reduce this slight softness in handling in my current wheel / tyre setup as described above?????
The brakes in question are below, the new 2013 design D2 6 pot calipers which are a new re design thanks to Bren & Apex/BC & John Felstead who have been testing these out with very good results. They are a big step above the old Ksport 8 pots & these are similar to AP 6 pot design & have proper dust seals too.
http://www.d2brakekits.co.uk/
Last edited by rickya; 23 August 2013 at 01:07 PM.
23 August 2013, 01:08 PM
#489
The Performace Friction 2 piece disks are becoming a bit of a non starter really, even the 2 piece Giro disks too which I can get for approx £450. This is becuase I would have to pay approx £450 for these 2 piece disks & approx £150 for some high end track pads =total £600 & use the existing Brembo Calipers.
Or buy the new D2 Calipers 6 pot kit which includes: For approx £1300 (probably get them to swop the road pads to better pads in the same price instead of haggling for a discount
)
"Pair of lightweight strong aluminium calipers
Pair of race specification rotors
Pair of lightweight aluminium bells
Pair of steel brackets
Pair of braided brake lines
Set of brake pads
Full fitting kit"
& then sell on my old Brembo Calipers, nearly new grooved Godspeed disks, worn EBC blue NDX pads & the braided lines from above kit together, all for approx £400.
So the D2 kit will actually cost me £1300 - £400 = £900, which only £300 more than buying the PF disks and pads at £600!! lol i.e the D2 calipers themselves are only costing £150 per caliper!!
Or buy the new D2 Calipers 6 pot kit which includes: For approx £1300 (probably get them to swop the road pads to better pads in the same price instead of haggling for a discount
)"Pair of lightweight strong aluminium calipers
Pair of race specification rotors
Pair of lightweight aluminium bells
Pair of steel brackets
Pair of braided brake lines
Set of brake pads
Full fitting kit"
& then sell on my old Brembo Calipers, nearly new grooved Godspeed disks, worn EBC blue NDX pads & the braided lines from above kit together, all for approx £400.
So the D2 kit will actually cost me £1300 - £400 = £900, which only £300 more than buying the PF disks and pads at £600!! lol i.e the D2 calipers themselves are only costing £150 per caliper!!
Last edited by rickya; 23 August 2013 at 01:23 PM.
23 August 2013, 01:55 PM
#490
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The Performace Friction 2 piece disks are becoming a bit of a non starter really, even the 2 piece Giro disks too which I can get for approx £450. This is becuase I would have to pay approx £450 for these 2 piece disks & approx £150 for some high end track pads =total £600 & use the existing Brembo Calipers.
Or buy the new D2 Calipers 6 pot kit which includes: For approx £1300 (probably get them to swop the road pads to better pads in the same price instead of haggling for a discount)
"Pair of lightweight strong aluminium calipers
Pair of race specification rotors
Pair of lightweight aluminium bells
Pair of steel brackets
Pair of braided brake lines
Set of brake pads
Full fitting kit"
& then sell on my old Brembo Calipers, nearly new grooved Godspeed disks, worn EBC blue NDX pads & the braided lines from above kit together, all for approx £400.
So the D2 kit will actually cost me £1300 - £400 = £900, which only £300 more than buying the PF disks and pads at £600!! lol i.e the D2 calipers themselves are only costing £150 per caliper!!
Or buy the new D2 Calipers 6 pot kit which includes: For approx £1300 (probably get them to swop the road pads to better pads in the same price instead of haggling for a discount
)"Pair of lightweight strong aluminium calipers
Pair of race specification rotors
Pair of lightweight aluminium bells
Pair of steel brackets
Pair of braided brake lines
Set of brake pads
Full fitting kit"
& then sell on my old Brembo Calipers, nearly new grooved Godspeed disks, worn EBC blue NDX pads & the braided lines from above kit together, all for approx £400.
So the D2 kit will actually cost me £1300 - £400 = £900, which only £300 more than buying the PF disks and pads at £600!! lol i.e the D2 calipers themselves are only costing £150 per caliper!!
but they are either very rare in 5 x 114 PCD and disapear very quickly or get very similar to buying new when you need a set of disks and pads.P.s i do enjoy your write ups as so they carry a lot of detail and thought provoking ideas.
23 August 2013, 03:39 PM
#491
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And don't forget the possibility of "over-powering" the front brakes compared to the back ones. If you've got too much force up front, could result in a very slippery tail...
Last edited by Shiver; 23 August 2013 at 03:45 PM.
23 August 2013, 03:42 PM
#492
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Don't forget to add fitting, brake fluid, costs to helicoil Brembo calipers after you cross-thread them and costs to helicoil the cross threaded D2 calipers
23 August 2013, 05:28 PM
#495
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Better compound pad in the rear will sort this out... I have this problem now with my AP's , but also less griper pad in the back. It tends to lift the tail up if you keep the steering wheel straight so not too bad, put to put the car equally better compound pad is needed in the back. DS2500 disappointed me a bit PF08's will be on the list when these are done.
23 August 2013, 05:43 PM
#499
Jim you must pop back in here and see my next update this week which will be thoughts on sending the car to Nickson motorsport for a Full roll cage, weight stripping from everywhere, flat boot floor, perspex windows, fixed low seats etc etc ! Lol 
Last edited by rickya; 23 August 2013 at 05:45 PM.
23 August 2013, 07:19 PM
#503
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I am interested Ricky
I am sick of seeing cars disappear in my rear view mirror, we need a bit of competition in the MSOC
Just get some nice big AP's a be done with it, you know they work
Forget the roll cage, i don't see the benefits
Learn to get the most out of the car you have before you spend out on mods, hence why mine has not been improved since I got it 6 years ago.
I am sick of seeing cars disappear in my rear view mirror, we need a bit of competition in the MSOC
Just get some nice big AP's a be done with it, you know they work
Forget the roll cage, i don't see the benefits
Learn to get the most out of the car you have before you spend out on mods, hence why mine has not been improved since I got it 6 years ago.
23 August 2013, 07:23 PM
#504
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And forget the perspex windows too - they don't generally work too well on frameless doors - get some RA front and rear screens as they are thinner and lighter
23 August 2013, 07:56 PM
#506
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A tap is the device most people around you have, it is used to clean up or rethread damaged threads. The pitch is the technical term for the size of thread, and Subaru use a fine pitch
Like this...
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item....re&dir=catalog
Like this...
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item....re&dir=catalog
Last edited by JonMc; 23 August 2013 at 07:57 PM.
23 August 2013, 08:01 PM
#507
I am interested Ricky
I am sick of seeing cars disappear in my rear view mirror, we need a bit of competition in the MSOC
Just get some nice big AP's a be done with it, you know they work
Forget the roll cage, i don't see the benefits
Learn to get the most out of the car you have before you spend out on mods, hence why mine has not been improved since I got it 6 years ago.
I am sick of seeing cars disappear in my rear view mirror, we need a bit of competition in the MSOC
Just get some nice big AP's a be done with it, you know they work
Forget the roll cage, i don't see the benefits
Learn to get the most out of the car you have before you spend out on mods, hence why mine has not been improved since I got it 6 years ago.
Yeah still not 100% decided as regards to either AP or D2 but am leaning towards the 330mm kit either way & keep existing 17" track wheels & tyres for now. Will do big brakes before Brands Hatch in Dec & going to do a lot more research on roll cages etc first & that is a plan for next year anyway.
Main thing is more track time, more tuition with what I have, as you say.
23 August 2013, 08:03 PM
#508
Scooby Regular
Ricky,
For what it's worth If I were to spend that kind of cash on brakes, I'd be going to AP's and spending a tad more for the "real deal". No need for anyone to test those.... we all know how great they are.
For what it's worth If I were to spend that kind of cash on brakes, I'd be going to AP's and spending a tad more for the "real deal". No need for anyone to test those.... we all know how great they are.
07 September 2013, 09:20 PM
#510
Following on from above Iv sold my new set of RE070 tyres in 17's and have also put up for sale my used RE070's with 17" std STI wheels.
Replaced with a used, but mint set of.......JDM Prodrive Forged Monoblock GC-05F 18x8" alloy wheels. These are manufactured in Japan by RAYS for Prodrive Japan and are one of the lightest wheels in this size on the market at 7.9 kg per corner. Specific design to aid cooling of brakes & also weight placement mainly on back of rim. Only ever seen these come up for sale once on Scoobynet before, in 2008. Ideal wheels for trackdays, once shod in some 245/40/18 Federal 595 RSR's or Dmacks etc.
http://www.prodrive-japan.com/en/products/gc_05f/
Replaced with a used, but mint set of.......JDM Prodrive Forged Monoblock GC-05F 18x8" alloy wheels. These are manufactured in Japan by RAYS for Prodrive Japan and are one of the lightest wheels in this size on the market at 7.9 kg per corner. Specific design to aid cooling of brakes & also weight placement mainly on back of rim. Only ever seen these come up for sale once on Scoobynet before, in 2008. Ideal wheels for trackdays, once shod in some 245/40/18 Federal 595 RSR's or Dmacks etc.
http://www.prodrive-japan.com/en/products/gc_05f/
Last edited by rickya; 07 September 2013 at 09:31 PM.