Judaism
16 January 2011, 11:21 PM
#61
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Im afraid the 'partitioning' was as much strategic as anything , only partly orchestrated by a rather ineffectual foreign minister ( one of my forbears )
16 January 2011, 11:28 PM
#62
Sharon's action withdrawing from Gaza was admirable (I guess he developed a conscience in later life with all the blood on his hands), but otherwise Israel's actions against illegal settlements have been extremely half-hearted and usually the result of the American's holding their hand to the fire. Recent settlement activity around Jerusalem seems designed to thwart any hopes of peace - it's difficult to see it having any legitimate purpose.
16 January 2011, 11:29 PM
#63
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I never said America doesn't do wrong. Please...
I've admitted that the settler issue is a real one. Israel are not perfect.
As to why Israel has more land than it should have had under the British plan then ask the Arab states why they went to war with Israel and in doing so displaced the refugees?
Many are still in refugee camps with the Arab countries refusing to let them out or be resettled etc. Why is that?
BTW the 'Palestinians' never had 'their' land as a state anyway. In fact there is no such thing as a discrete Palestinian people. The Ottomans never even called it Palestine! It was just a part of their Empire.
I've admitted that the settler issue is a real one. Israel are not perfect.
As to why Israel has more land than it should have had under the British plan then ask the Arab states why they went to war with Israel and in doing so displaced the refugees?
Many are still in refugee camps with the Arab countries refusing to let them out or be resettled etc. Why is that?
BTW the 'Palestinians' never had 'their' land as a state anyway. In fact there is no such thing as a discrete Palestinian people. The Ottomans never even called it Palestine! It was just a part of their Empire.
why should other Arabs let then settle when it's not there country, but to be fair there is a lot of palistinians living and SETTELED in other Arab countries. I'm aware of the palistinain refugees in lebanon. but lebanon isn't that far ahead in terms of the government, benefits ect. so they can't offer much tothe palistinain people.
they wasnt recognised by you but in the Arab world it's still recognised as palistine.
the utter rubbish the politicians speak makes me sick the truth is right there in your face yet the politians still lie. politicians are simply salesmen.
look at Cyprus for instance me and you can fly direct to the Greek side but not Turkish side. and the Greek cypriot currency is stronger than the pound. I've been Cyprus three times, nothing there but donkeys and small villages afew clubs and that's it. they export nothing more than Greek yoghurt and water melons and the occasional halomi cheese lovely place. yet there currency is stronger than the pound.
this world is messes up cause people like you don't ask the question they believe what ever they fed in the media. sorry if i sound harsh just in a bad mood after watching Gordon ramseys shark bate
16 January 2011, 11:45 PM
#64
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Both Shas and Jewish Home are part of the current coalition government in Israel. Shas has recently joined the World Zionist Organisation and while they do not support settlements in the West Bank they believe all of Jerusalem should be part of the Israeli state. Jewish Home are an ultra right-wing religious party who believe all Palestistians should be removed to Jordan.
Sharon's action withdrawing from Gaza was admirable (I guess he developed a conscience in later life with all the blood on his hands), but otherwise Israel's actions against illegal settlements have been extremely half-hearted and usually the result of the American's holding their hand to the fire. Recent settlement activity around Jerusalem seems designed to thwart any hopes of peace - it's difficult to see it having any legitimate purpose.
Sharon's action withdrawing from Gaza was admirable (I guess he developed a conscience in later life with all the blood on his hands), but otherwise Israel's actions against illegal settlements have been extremely half-hearted and usually the result of the American's holding their hand to the fire. Recent settlement activity around Jerusalem seems designed to thwart any hopes of peace - it's difficult to see it having any legitimate purpose.
Agreeing to the two state solution would have put massive pressure, domestic and international - on the settlers and the extreme right. As it is you have one half of the Palies (Hamas preaching full ethnic cleansing) so you may ask why should the extreme settlers not go ahead and do what they want?
16 January 2011, 11:49 PM
#65
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Are you going to leave the UK?
How about the Albanians in Kosova? They have their own nation now at the expense of the Serbs.
True yet you seem to support the Politicians of Hezzbollah, Iran etc. They are even bigger liars.
So how do you justify the Turkish invasion? Where is the protest?
How about the Albanians in Kosova? They have their own nation now at the expense of the Serbs.
look at Cyprus for instance me and you can fly direct to the Greek side but not Turkish side. and the Greek cypriot currency is stronger than the pound. I've been Cyprus three times, nothing there but donkeys and small villages afew clubs and that's it. they export nothing more than Greek yoghurt and water melons and the occasional halomi cheese lovely place. yet there currency is stronger than the pound.
17 January 2011, 12:07 AM
#66
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I knew i should of edited the first comment or event elaborated a bit more, the Arabs are next door neighbours of palistine and most of the countries around there are strigling anyway so how can they support the palistinians too.
lebanon doesnt even have nhs out there? Syria is has no money they are broke there currency is worthless. the Turks speak a different language. would you live under sadam in Iraq when he was around??
hizzballah aren't politicians there a group of people who are fighting against the oppression. I don't agree with a lot of things they do but I'm sure they wouldn't e around If palistine wasn't oppressed.
me leave the uk You crazy this is my country now as I contribute to it and I built my life here. but to be fair I've thought about leaving yes with government taking **** with prices rising for everything.
how do you justify they bigger liars when they sat inter own homes and some **** sucker went there and accused them of having weapons of mass destructions. wheres the weapons that bush went in to Iraq for. bush clearly went in for oil so who's the lied now????????!!!??????
lebanon doesnt even have nhs out there? Syria is has no money they are broke there currency is worthless. the Turks speak a different language. would you live under sadam in Iraq when he was around??
hizzballah aren't politicians there a group of people who are fighting against the oppression. I don't agree with a lot of things they do but I'm sure they wouldn't e around If palistine wasn't oppressed.
me leave the uk You crazy this is my country now as I contribute to it and I built my life here. but to be fair I've thought about leaving yes with government taking **** with prices rising for everything.
how do you justify they bigger liars when they sat inter own homes and some **** sucker went there and accused them of having weapons of mass destructions. wheres the weapons that bush went in to Iraq for. bush clearly went in for oil so who's the lied now????????!!!??????
17 January 2011, 12:50 AM
#68
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You don't believe America 'liberated' the Iraqis for selfless/altruistic reasons, so why do you believe Hezzbollah?
Hezzbollah like any new organisation with a political elite want power. They use the Palestinians as a reason to sieze power, the take control of South Lebanon on the basis they are 'defending against Israel'. Without Israel they would have no way to convince people that they were necessary...no reason for being in the Lebanese. They tell the Lebanese that Israel is a danger and by the way we will sieze power and push our political ideology through which just happens to mean our Leadership acquire massive local POLITICAL POWER.
They have to keep the conflict going or the Lebanese would realise they have no use for them, why else kidnap IDF soldiers and start a war? Only point is to keep the conflict going....it was entirely POLITICAL which is why I say the are politicians.
Last edited by tony de wonderful; 17 January 2011 at 12:53 AM.
17 January 2011, 05:27 PM
#69
So Arafat rejecting the 95% offer was not an obstacle to peace and same for the current Palies not even knowing what they want (Hamas wants full conquest!).
Agreeing to the two state solution would have put massive pressure, domestic and international - on the settlers and the extreme right. As it is you have one half of the Palies (Hamas preaching full ethnic cleansing) so you may ask why should the extreme settlers not go ahead and do what they want?
Agreeing to the two state solution would have put massive pressure, domestic and international - on the settlers and the extreme right. As it is you have one half of the Palies (Hamas preaching full ethnic cleansing) so you may ask why should the extreme settlers not go ahead and do what they want?
If Hamas and Fatah both agreed to recognise the existence of the Israeli state according to the pre-1967 boundaries would this be enough to get Israel's agreement to a Palestinian state with the reciprocal boundaries? It should be if Israeli rhetoric is to be believed, but it will never happen because Netanyahu is reliant on Zionist parties to hold his coalition together. Even Sharon couldn't force through the total settlement freeze which was a pre-condition of the first phase of the 2002 peace plan.
17 January 2011, 05:44 PM
#70
Fair enough but I notice we you and Mus this is that standard reply when you run out of arguments in the debate.
You cling to this view of the conflict because it is what you WANT to see. You want to imagine it's this good vs evil....Palies are eternal victims and oppressed...Israel the cartoon bad guy. Black and white. It's just a piece of theater to you.
You cling to this view of the conflict because it is what you WANT to see. You want to imagine it's this good vs evil....Palies are eternal victims and oppressed...Israel the cartoon bad guy. Black and white. It's just a piece of theater to you.
17 January 2011, 05:53 PM
#71
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Hey Tony instead of telling everyone else what they think why not answer my question so we know what and how you think?
I am thinking the multiple choice answers are going to have to be given to you soon.
I am thinking the multiple choice answers are going to have to be given to you soon.
17 January 2011, 06:21 PM
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17 January 2011, 06:27 PM
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17 January 2011, 07:23 PM
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17 January 2011, 08:21 PM
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Just saying.
17 January 2011, 08:45 PM
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I can't refute that because you are not referring to specifics.
17 January 2011, 09:12 PM
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Look you have taken some historical half truths (Jewish people owned 7% prior to 1948), and then projected your own idea of 'justice' onto the conflict on behalf of the Palestinians.
A conflict which is nothing to do with you and never asked you to stick your oar in.
A conflict which is nothing to do with you and never asked you to stick your oar in.
17 January 2011, 09:25 PM
#85
Look you have taken some historical half truths (Jewish people owned 7% prior to 1948), and then projected your own idea of 'justice' onto the conflict on behalf of the Palestinians.
A conflict which is nothing to do with you and never asked you to stick your oar in.
A conflict which is nothing to do with you and never asked you to stick your oar in.
17 January 2011, 09:49 PM
#87
BANNED
F*ck me!!! Mods,'regardless of the mong being a payd member
, please ban the cunt. Tony please **** off with your drivel. I'm sick and tired of seeing your user name and crap posts/threads!!
, please ban the cunt. Tony please **** off with your drivel. I'm sick and tired of seeing your user name and crap posts/threads!!
17 January 2011, 10:02 PM
#89
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Look you have taken some historical half truths (Jewish people owned 7% prior to 1948), and then projected your own idea of 'justice' onto the conflict on behalf of the Palestinians.
A conflict which is nothing to do with you and never asked you to stick your oar in.
A conflict which is nothing to do with you and never asked you to stick your oar in.
They have no more right to settle in the region than I have to claim a part of kazakhstan as my own
17 January 2011, 10:17 PM
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