Cafe fan banned in case smell of bacon offends Muslims
22 October 2010, 02:04 PM
#62
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First, you've misquoted me and I'd appreciate an edit. Second, you're stating the obvious, here. It's quite clear that my issue was (and is now) with your misleading (deliberate or otherwise) use of simile and parallel in what is already a complicated broader debate, peppered with misunderstanding. The waters do not need further muddying, Steve.
22 October 2010, 02:24 PM
#63
This might give more information why Pig is not allowed http://www.questionsonislam.com/inde...how_qna&id=168
22 October 2010, 02:33 PM
#64
Implicit in the second point is that a pro-Liberal Democracy, anti-Islamist stance is comparable to National Socialist anti-semiticism. Whilst this bacon odour story is the height of absurdity, your simili trumps even it! Islam has done and is doing a good enough job of surpressing public criticism; its clerics issue fatwas, it's operatives behead journalists (and publish the act just so others may know what's coming) and murder their own kin for apostasy. It does not need you to engage in intellectually deficient and deceitful invigilation on it's behalf. As ever, a little knowledge is dangerous.
22 October 2010, 02:49 PM
#65
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Deciding to excessively consume pork could be damaging for one's health but, the notion of a celestial dictator and his representatives on Earth removing my right to decide is even more so. It is, frankly, both absurd and terrifying. Debatable health benefits for a lifetime of bondage or the option of a bacon sarnie and liberty?
22 October 2010, 03:08 PM
#66
If you understand the proper meaning of Fatwa then maybe your conclusion can be changed. However i do understand your concern about the Fatwa coming from radicals which is by no doubt incorrect & wrong.
A little introduction to what Fatwa actually is & how it should be used:
A fatwa is issued by a recognized religious authority in Islam. But since there is no hierarchical priesthood or anything of the sort in Islam, a fatwa is not necessarily "binding" on the faithful. The people who pronounce these rulings are supposed to be knowledgable, and base their rulings in knowledge and wisdom. They need to supply the evidence from Islamic sources for their opinions, and it is not uncommon for scholars to come to different conclusions regarding the same issue.
As Muslims, we look at the opinion, the reputation of the person giving it, the evidence given to support it, and then decide whether to follow it or not. When there are conflicting opinions issued by different scholars, we compare the evidence and then choose the opinion to which our God-given conscience guides us.
A little introduction to what Fatwa actually is & how it should be used:
A fatwa is issued by a recognized religious authority in Islam. But since there is no hierarchical priesthood or anything of the sort in Islam, a fatwa is not necessarily "binding" on the faithful. The people who pronounce these rulings are supposed to be knowledgable, and base their rulings in knowledge and wisdom. They need to supply the evidence from Islamic sources for their opinions, and it is not uncommon for scholars to come to different conclusions regarding the same issue.
As Muslims, we look at the opinion, the reputation of the person giving it, the evidence given to support it, and then decide whether to follow it or not. When there are conflicting opinions issued by different scholars, we compare the evidence and then choose the opinion to which our God-given conscience guides us.
22 October 2010, 03:08 PM
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First, you've misquoted me and I'd appreciate an edit. Second, you're stating the obvious, here. It's quite clear that my issue was (and is now) with your misleading (deliberate or otherwise) use of simile and parallel in what is already a complicated broader debate, peppered with misunderstanding. The waters do not need further muddying, Steve.
I appreciate the angle you are coming at this from however my sympathies lie with any group who are unfairly treated and even more so when stories appear to be manipulated to feed that hate.
My point, be it in your opinion poorly executed, is that this has happened throughout history and we are not learning those lessons.
Steve
22 October 2010, 03:10 PM
#68
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Normally nothing. If it involves one man living in fear for his life because he wrote a book some people didn't like, quite a lot.
Although he has sold more copies than expected and made an awful lot of money out of it.
This I accept but its always the same group (s) that crops up in the media. Is it some media campaign to stir up racial hatred? There are other eithnic/minority groups in the UK that you don't hear a peep out of. Is it all down to the media picking on one particular group? I honestly don't know.
Although he has sold more copies than expected and made an awful lot of money out of it.
This I accept but its always the same group (s) that crops up in the media. Is it some media campaign to stir up racial hatred? There are other eithnic/minority groups in the UK that you don't hear a peep out of. Is it all down to the media picking on one particular group? I honestly don't know.
Last edited by EddScott; 22 October 2010 at 03:15 PM.
22 October 2010, 03:28 PM
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Well, Aladdin, in the case of the death fatwa issued against Salmon Rushdie, I object to the Supreme Leader of Iran, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, calling on, and I quote, "all good Muslims to kill or help kill Rushdie and his publishers." Two of his translators were stabbed (one fatally), one of his publishers was shot. But that's just the famous 'official' one, isn't it? On the issue of cultural fatwa we have the ill fated Theo Van Gough who dared produce a film questioning the status of women within Islam and, of course, our unfortunate cartoonist from Denmark. Thank goodness the Dutch found in favour of Wilders, I just hope his security team never sleep.
What's wrong with religious edicts in a broader sense? Western laws are borne out of reason, not faith in the supernatural.
Please tell me, Alladin, would you welcome an Islamic Enlightenment?
What's wrong with religious edicts in a broader sense? Western laws are borne out of reason, not faith in the supernatural.
Please tell me, Alladin, would you welcome an Islamic Enlightenment?
Last edited by JTaylor; 22 October 2010 at 03:39 PM. Reason: Silly iPhone auto spell
22 October 2010, 03:40 PM
#71
The only enlightment i possibly can add is what you have mentioned is certainly true in regards to the wrong doings & how Fatwa has been used in a misconcepted way. Fatwa is only suppose to be used whilst implementing the best, which will favour everyone in the positive way & benefit the nation & not only the Islamic state. So as you can see this is a good set example to learn from of how the wrong people lead the right thing in the wrong direction. Its all about piece & love 
Further more about edicts, im assuming you mean sketches of prophet Mohammed (pbuh) etc? Well that is each muslim individuals choice to condem against it as some find it offensive & some dont. Its like if you were at work & some one made a image of you that looked astroshus im sure you would feel offended as there is no need for it.
Also the belief that majority of Muslims hold as they have the real & true understanding to how Mohammed (SAW) lived his life in the most righteous way therefore they fume with anger when something wrong is said about Islam or the prophet, which obviously is not the right way to go at it but thats the human mind for you.
Further more about edicts, im assuming you mean sketches of prophet Mohammed (pbuh) etc? Well that is each muslim individuals choice to condem against it as some find it offensive & some dont. Its like if you were at work & some one made a image of you that looked astroshus im sure you would feel offended as there is no need for it.
Also the belief that majority of Muslims hold as they have the real & true understanding to how Mohammed (SAW) lived his life in the most righteous way therefore they fume with anger when something wrong is said about Islam or the prophet, which obviously is not the right way to go at it but thats the human mind for you.
Last edited by KAS35RSTI; 22 October 2010 at 03:54 PM.
22 October 2010, 03:45 PM
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The only enlightment i possibly can add is what you have mentioned is certainly true in regards to the wrong doings & how Fatwa has been used in a misconcepted way. Fatwa is only suppose to be used whilst implementing the best, which will favour everyone in the positive way & benefit the nation & not only the Islamic state. So as you can see this is a good set example to learn from of how the wrong people lead the right thing in the wrong direction. Its all about piece & love
22 October 2010, 03:51 PM
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Edited as requested.
I appreciate the angle you are coming at this from however my sympathies lie with any group who are unfairly treated and even more so when stories appear to be manipulated to feed that hate.
My point, be it in your opinion poorly executed, is that this has happened throughout history and we are not learning those lessons.
Steve
I appreciate the angle you are coming at this from however my sympathies lie with any group who are unfairly treated and even more so when stories appear to be manipulated to feed that hate.
My point, be it in your opinion poorly executed, is that this has happened throughout history and we are not learning those lessons.
Steve
22 October 2010, 03:59 PM
#74
Don't think Mr Webb-Lee would be so quick to complain if they where 12" from his front door.
Peace.
The only enlightment i possibly can add is what you have mentioned is certainly true in regards to the wrong doings & how Fatwa has been used in a misconcepted way. Fatwa is only suppose to be used whilst implementing the best, which will favour everyone in the positive way & benefit the nation & not only the Islamic state. So as you can see this is a good set example to learn from of how the wrong people lead the right thing in the wrong direction. Its all about piece & love
22 October 2010, 05:18 PM
#75
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yeah, that's what it is - a wave of anti muslim bashers The area is DOMINATED by asians, to the point that you wouldn't even get out of your car if it was on fire - its a horrible place, and the white people have been bullied in to moving out! I've seen it with my own eyes over the last 10 years! didn't think it would be long before the race card was wavedI have seen it myself and it is wrong that whites are bullied out of areas the muslims claim are for them only, ive been called a dirty kuffar whislt walking gast a bunch of 14 year old boys, they didnt know i wasnt muslim they based that on my colour, if they are this indoctrinated at about 14 no wonder thet hate us all and want to blow us up in the name of some paedo called allah and the promise of 40 virgins when they blow them selves up!
22 October 2010, 05:22 PM
#76
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If you understand the proper meaning of Fatwa then maybe your conclusion can be changed. However i do understand your concern about the Fatwa coming from radicals which is by no doubt incorrect & wrong.
A little introduction to what Fatwa actually is & how it should be used:
A fatwa is issued by a recognized religious authority in Islam. But since there is no hierarchical priesthood or anything of the sort in Islam, a fatwa is not necessarily "binding" on the faithful. The people who pronounce these rulings are supposed to be knowledgable, and base their rulings in knowledge and wisdom. They need to supply the evidence from Islamic sources for their opinions, and it is not uncommon for scholars to come to different conclusions regarding the same issue.
As Muslims, we look at the opinion, the reputation of the person giving it, the evidence given to support it, and then decide whether to follow it or not. When there are conflicting opinions issued by different scholars, we compare the evidence and then choose the opinion to which our God-given conscience guides us.
A little introduction to what Fatwa actually is & how it should be used:
A fatwa is issued by a recognized religious authority in Islam. But since there is no hierarchical priesthood or anything of the sort in Islam, a fatwa is not necessarily "binding" on the faithful. The people who pronounce these rulings are supposed to be knowledgable, and base their rulings in knowledge and wisdom. They need to supply the evidence from Islamic sources for their opinions, and it is not uncommon for scholars to come to different conclusions regarding the same issue.
As Muslims, we look at the opinion, the reputation of the person giving it, the evidence given to support it, and then decide whether to follow it or not. When there are conflicting opinions issued by different scholars, we compare the evidence and then choose the opinion to which our God-given conscience guides us.
22 October 2010, 05:27 PM
#77
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Also the belief that majority of Muslims hold as they have the real & true understanding to how Mohammed (SAW) lived his life in the most righteous way therefore they fume with anger when something wrong is said about Islam or the prophet, which obviously is not the right way to go at it but thats the human mind for you.
Clearly if you or I make a cartoon picture of Mohammed it effects no Muslims in any real way and - as a non muslim - I should not be made to behave in a way which conforms to Islamic ideals.
It's all about personal boundaries.
22 October 2010, 05:29 PM
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22 October 2010, 05:44 PM
#79
the clowns that post the "immigration isnt a problem" and "all muslims are ok" sh1te have never experienced the stuff you talk about, basically ghettos where whites cant go, they ARE dominated by asians and they also seem to be the hot spots for insurance fraud, compensation fraud and vehicle crimes (thats a BIG coincidence)>
I have seen it myself and it is wrong that whites are bullied out of areas the muslims claim are for them only, ive been called a dirty kuffar whislt walking gast a bunch of 14 year old boys, they didnt know i wasnt muslim they based that on my colour, if they are this indoctrinated at about 14 no wonder thet hate us all and want to blow us up in the name of some paedo called allah and the promise of 40 virgins when they blow them selves up!
I have seen it myself and it is wrong that whites are bullied out of areas the muslims claim are for them only, ive been called a dirty kuffar whislt walking gast a bunch of 14 year old boys, they didnt know i wasnt muslim they based that on my colour, if they are this indoctrinated at about 14 no wonder thet hate us all and want to blow us up in the name of some paedo called allah and the promise of 40 virgins when they blow them selves up!
. I feel for you as you have been a victim of racial abuse but alot of us face that. I dont see why you have to be bullied out, why not just convert to Islam & mix in with the crowd. As So solid crew once said "You said you will never role with us, now you roll up & you smoke with us"
Last edited by KAS35RSTI; 22 October 2010 at 06:22 PM.
22 October 2010, 05:58 PM
#80
It's evidence that most Muslims have not accepted the main idea of secularism, that religion is a purely personal phenomenon; what I believe etc should be for me only and not imposed upon other people.
Clearly if you or I make a cartoon picture of Mohammed it effects no Muslims in any real way and - as a non muslim - I should not be made to behave in a way which conforms to Islamic ideals.
It's all about personal boundaries.
Clearly if you or I make a cartoon picture of Mohammed it effects no Muslims in any real way and - as a non muslim - I should not be made to behave in a way which conforms to Islamic ideals.
It's all about personal boundaries.
As you have mentioned its all about personal boundaries.
22 October 2010, 06:35 PM
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If Islam is only capable of advocating theocracy then it should be shunned and vilified as in can never be accommodated into liberal-democracy.
22 October 2010, 07:00 PM
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Well, you say that, but within the developed world sexual intercourse with a nine year old is, in law, the crime of peodophillia. Admittedly this law has been passed by human beings as opposed to Allah, but nevertheless, it's what we've reasoned to be just.
I understand that in Iran, the age that a female may be married (without the parents' consent) has recently been raised from nine to thirteen. Progress indeed. Of course, once married the girl can no longer be raped, which is even more good news.
I understand that in Iran, the age that a female may be married (without the parents' consent) has recently been raised from nine to thirteen. Progress indeed. Of course, once married the girl can no longer be raped, which is even more good news.
22 October 2010, 07:03 PM
#86
Well, you say that, but within the developed world sexual intercourse with a nine year old is, in law, the crime of peodophillia. Admittedly this law has been passed by human beings as opposed to Allah, but nevertheless, it's what we've reasoned to be just.
I understand that in Iran, the age that a female may be married (without the parents' consent) has recently been raised from nine to thirteen. Progress indeed. Of course, once married the girl can no longer be raped, which is even more good news.
I understand that in Iran, the age that a female may be married (without the parents' consent) has recently been raised from nine to thirteen. Progress indeed. Of course, once married the girl can no longer be raped, which is even more good news.
Last edited by KAS35RSTI; 22 October 2010 at 07:05 PM.
22 October 2010, 07:28 PM
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It is reported from Aisha that she said: The Prophet entered into marriage with me when I was a girl of six and at the time [of joining his household] I was a girl of nine years of age.
Was the man mistaken? If he wasn't I must congratulate your prophet on delaying consumation by three years; a clear testament to his benevolance.
On the subject of teenage pregnancy, we've got a lot of work to do, that's for sure. That work will consist of talking with young people and offering up reason and education. We will not kill the child and its unborn baby.
22 October 2010, 07:34 PM
#88
On topic and true according to Bukhari who compiled your Hadith:
It is reported from Aisha that she said: The Prophet entered into marriage with me when I was a girl of six and at the time [of joining his household] I was a girl of nine years of age.
Was the man mistaken? If he wasn't I must congratulate your prophet on delaying consumation by three years; a clear testament to his benevolance.
On the subject of teenage pregnancy, we've got a lot of work to do, that's for sure. That work will consist of talking with young people and offering up reason and education. We will not kill the child and its unborn baby.
It is reported from Aisha that she said: The Prophet entered into marriage with me when I was a girl of six and at the time [of joining his household] I was a girl of nine years of age.
Was the man mistaken? If he wasn't I must congratulate your prophet on delaying consumation by three years; a clear testament to his benevolance.
On the subject of teenage pregnancy, we've got a lot of work to do, that's for sure. That work will consist of talking with young people and offering up reason and education. We will not kill the child and its unborn baby.
Again your above post has incorrect facts. Wikipedia is full of crap wrong source to get your information from.
22 October 2010, 07:43 PM
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Man this is like playing the same song over & over again. You should buy a english version of the Qur'an & read the story. If i had enough time on my hands then i would have gone through it with you.
Again your above post has incorrect facts. Wikipedia is full of crap wrong source to get your information from.
Again your above post has incorrect facts. Wikipedia is full of crap wrong source to get your information from.
I wouldn't mind his inane and inaccurate rambling so much if he EVER had and constructive solutions to share...
Don't hold your breath