I like manual boxes, but in terms of how capable these new dual clutch boxes are, there is no question.

Isn't the new 997 C4/2s (?) almost just as quick as a 996 GT3? Flamesuit zipped

 

You are only four years behind the times

The non-PDK Gen I 997 S was as quick around the 'Ring as the 996 GT3. Better chassis control made a lot of difference.

 

Blimey

 

Why would I want to down shift when I'm already at the redline? Blow my bespoke F1 derived V10 507 BHP M sport engine?

 

But I thought you could select any gear you want, anytime?

 

Correct. I can select any gear I want. I would not want to downshift at a red line, therefore as I said, I can select any gear I want.

 

Interesting thread.

E60 M5 engine, bespoke - what does that mean?

 

Sonu, not sure if bespoke is exactly the right word. What I mean is that the E60 M5 engine is unique to the M5, it is not used in any other car. It is not a derivation or altered version of any other engine, it was made specifically for the M5 and now will never be seen again (due to emissions regs)

MB for example use a form of the same engine in many of their AMG range, ie at one point the C63, E63, S63 and CL63 AMGs all had more or less the same engine, tuned or detuned accordingly.

Others do the same across different makes under the same umbrella, ie you'll see versions of the same engine in Lambo's and Audis.

The next M5 engine may not be able to boast the same credentials. The rumours are that it will be a version of the twin turbo V8 found in the X6M and X5M. If this is true many die hard M enthusiasts will be disappointed because it makes it less special.
I'm not sure it would bother me that much as that engine in the X5M produces 550 BHP, 500 torques. It would probably be tuned for the M5 to produce a bit more, I'm sure M division will want it to have 600 BHP so it has a clear head and shoulders above the rest of it's range

 

Just got back from the Ring in the E60 M5.
It always surprises me how this car does not feel big on the track...

 

Don't get all these n/a geeks (regds new m5 turbo debate) V8 twin turbo? Imagine the tuning potential for that! Awesome.

 

Does the GTR not have a boot

got a GTR driving day for my birthday and really looking forward to it

 

Except the M6

 

BMW designers have over the years been going on about the smooth drivability of NA engines, so it is a fair turn-around to switch to turbos. Think the V10 will become a classic..

Would not want to mess about trying to tune what would probably a highly tuned turbo //M engine.

 

Why not?

Most engines are not anywhere near there limits. You can buy a 335i or 135i (same Turbo engine) and have it remapped.

Can't see an M Turbo'd engine being any different.

 

yep the GTR has a big boot and I can fit kids in mine - so its more user friendly than some other fast(ish) cars

Trout - the way the GTR drives its not 4WD - its rear wheel drive

One point on the GTR - the gearbox is amazing. I just cannot believe still that the GTR can accelerate as fast as my Subaru from about 90-150, which has slightly more power and is 500kg's lighter. 0-100 my Scoob is much quicker but from about 90 onwards the GTR catches up and is faster than the Subaru

I should have taken them both to Castle Coombe - on the long straight I can Max out the speed in the Subaru - then again the GTR would probably have driven past the Scoob given its terminal speed is much higher

 

I can also fit a small child in the front boot of the Porsche, but I let them travel in the back seats usually.

 

I have a tiny boot as the front is designed for the racing 90l fuel tank - although the UK cars are fitted with a 50l fuel tank. Go figure.

I can certainly fit two small children in it though, or two medium sized ones if I break their legs and arms.

 

Ho-ho very funny
I must make sure my use of the English language is not subject to such abuse in future

It has a big boot and I can fit the kids in the back seats...............

 

Or do you mean on the seats?

Still waiting for the pics to prove it

 

Read something the other day about two new versions of the GTR, a M version (comfort) and a Cup version. I think they have turned the power up to 530 BHP to keep up with/beat the 997ttS

 

Its very cheap and easy to get 600bhp out of these cars and changing the injectors and transmission/engine oil coolers puts the car in a whole different league......

 

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/m...7x10/GTRI3.jpg

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm39/Z07x10/GTRI.jpg

I believe it runs twin modified vf34s....

 

Renault owns Nissan right?
Well if I was the boss I wouldnt want to drive a Renault either as they dont do sports cars - they do small crappy cars for girls and Hairdressers.... some even as much as 200bhp or so... still small crappy cars for girls and Hairdressers

 

If you are talking about the smg in the e60 m5 then you are wrong. You can not upshift at the red line and equally you can not move up through the gears at slow speed.

Try going 1,2,3,4,on a steady throttle up to say 30 mph and the gearbox will refuse to give you the higher gears.

The smg is fun on s6 full throttle changes but is just about useless as a full auto and almost impossible to drive smoothly in very slow traffic - you cant dip the clutch.....

S

 

Not quite sure what the point of this statement is? So are you saying that I can't choose a completely inappropriate gear? So I can't try and change up to 7th gear at 15mph? What do you think would happen in a manual car if you tried to do that? It would stall right?

So what you are saying is that I can't select a gear that would stall the car or blow the engine. Thanks, I knew that already It's called engineering!

As for the full auto function, I never mentioned it, I've never used it. I drive it smoothly in traffic everyday as I've owned the car for almost four years. Maybe you mean that you[B][/B] can't drive it smoothly in traffic

 

The point I was trying to make is that you do not have full control, the computer assess what you ask for and the IT decides if you can have it.

And maybe it was me, and pretty much every other owner on most forums around the UK who complain about slow speed smoothness. That is why BMW no longer offers SMG on its cars. I doff my cap to you, if you can drive it slowly on a trailing type throttle at slow speed in traffic.

The other point about control, the car changes down when it wants not when you want. Many the time when I pulled up to a junction in second, saw a gap, hit the throttle only to find the car decided to change to first and leave you with no drive for a worrying second. Has this never happened to you?

The best balance I found was s3 manual for normal driving, and s6 in M mode, but still a jerky beast.

Incidentally, I drove one in the USA which had a manual 6 speed box, and this really didnt suit the car at all. Like I said, full throttle upchanges at s6 are fun and what the car is all about.

S

 

Mate, we must be talking about two different cars.

1) The car does not really change down when it wants. It will only change down when at such low revs that the car would have stalled otherwise. For example I'm in 4th gear at 70mph and brake all the way down towards a stop and then at some point towards 20mph it will change down. This never happens to me because I drive it as though it was a manual ie match the gears to speed, so at 50mph would have changed down to 3rd and at 20mph changed to 2nd. Its no different to any other car, you have to understand how the gearbox works.
I have NEVER had to fight with the gearbox because it's trying to do something that I don't want it to do.

2) Your second statement makes no sense. There is NO S3 setting in manual mode, the S1-6 settings apply to fully automatic mode only. In manual mode the driver decides when to change up, whether at 2krpm or all the way at the very redline

They no longer offer SMG because BMW (and others) have moved on. SMG was far from perfect, but not for any of the reasons you mentioned.

All the M3s and M5s from that era have SMG gearboxes. Do you see them all jerking around on the road? Like everything in life it takes a bit of effort to get it right.

 

that must give a truly pathetic range -- 2 hours driving before you have to refill?

 

Just checked - it is 63l - it's just that I am using even more fuel than I thought

Range is about 300 miles as it does 22mpg on average (except when I am on track when it falls to 7mpg which is better than my Scoob was!)

 

Invalidates the warranty don't forget.