Looks Like Brown for another 5 Years Then?
01 March 2010, 07:22 PM
#61
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as much as it pains me to say it Dave is correct :-)
(labour initially followed the spending plan laid down by the Tories)
and TB & GB took a lot of flack for it from the labour old guard, public spending only ramped up after a few more years into the parliament
(labour initially followed the spending plan laid down by the Tories)
and TB & GB took a lot of flack for it from the labour old guard, public spending only ramped up after a few more years into the parliament
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 01 March 2010 at 07:25 PM.
01 March 2010, 07:46 PM
#62
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The mistake is assuming that significant swathes of the electorate have the ability to make a rational decision at the ballot box.
Given the utter imbecility, ignorance and downright stupidity of people these days nothing would surprise me come polling day.
Hence of course, this ridiculous government, which merely mirrors the idiots who voted for it last time around, and which is further demonstrated on an almost daily basis by the author of this puerile thread.
A vote for UKIP is simply a vote for Labour. There is only one party with the capability to prevent another "five years of Brown"
Given the utter imbecility, ignorance and downright stupidity of people these days nothing would surprise me come polling day.
Hence of course, this ridiculous government, which merely mirrors the idiots who voted for it last time around, and which is further demonstrated on an almost daily basis by the author of this puerile thread.
A vote for UKIP is simply a vote for Labour. There is only one party with the capability to prevent another "five years of Brown"
01 March 2010, 10:53 PM
#68
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I'm not re-writing history. The last Tory governments spending plans were so *catastrophic* that New Labour pledged to stick to them! See ... BBC NEWS | Special Reports | 629 | 629 | Blair's Cabinet of '97 - where are they now? ...
"... He initially gained a reputation for fiscal prudence, sticking to Conservative spending plans for the first two years in government in the teeth of left wing opposition ..."
If you can't remember that as being one of the central planks of their manifesto, one of the *bribes* to get middle England to vote for them, then you must be younger than I thought. Your username isn't your DOB is it .... ?
Dave
"... He initially gained a reputation for fiscal prudence, sticking to Conservative spending plans for the first two years in government in the teeth of left wing opposition ..."
If you can't remember that as being one of the central planks of their manifesto, one of the *bribes* to get middle England to vote for them, then you must be younger than I thought. Your username isn't your DOB is it .... ?
Dave
An NHS on it's knees was what the last Tory government left behind, hence their desperate NHS pledges today, people simply do not trust them with the NHS (or didn't at least).
The last Tory government nearly destroyed the economy, or don't you remember the ERM catastrophe...some plan that was!!!!
So why don't you go read up on the the 1990's before attempting to patronise me?
01 March 2010, 11:06 PM
#69
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That is utter garbage and you know it. Labour poured money into our under funded public services, or have you forgotten the rest of NL 1997 pledges?
An NHS on it's knees was what the last Tory government left behind, hence their desperate NHS pledges today, people simply do not trust them with the NHS (or didn't at least).
The last Tory government nearly destroyed the economy, or don't you remember the ERM catastrophe...some plan that was!!!!
So why don't you go read up on the the 1990's before attempting to patronise me?
An NHS on it's knees was what the last Tory government left behind, hence their desperate NHS pledges today, people simply do not trust them with the NHS (or didn't at least).
The last Tory government nearly destroyed the economy, or don't you remember the ERM catastrophe...some plan that was!!!!
So why don't you go read up on the the 1990's before attempting to patronise me?
As for spending on the NHS etc, that's not disputed. They have spent shed loads on the NHS, to good effect or not is another issue. But what is also NOT disputed is their initial sticking to Tory plans.
As for the *ERM debacle*. That was the decision that was backed by ALL 3 parties, the unions and businesses at the time. So it's a little disingenuous to blame the Tories solely for that. And that was how long ago now? Nearly 20 years?
Dave
01 March 2010, 11:12 PM
#70
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Fact of the matter is this:-
Tories will cut and cut and cut .... they will cut the state education system in favour of private education, they will run down the NHS and make everyone take out Medical Insurance, they will create unrest and strikes, they will destroy the country as they very nearly did under Thatcher and Major!!
Hague is a master politician ... as is Mandleson - what a fight it would be if those two were the leaders of their respective parties!!!
Tories will cut and cut and cut .... they will cut the state education system in favour of private education, they will run down the NHS and make everyone take out Medical Insurance, they will create unrest and strikes, they will destroy the country as they very nearly did under Thatcher and Major!!
Hague is a master politician ... as is Mandleson - what a fight it would be if those two were the leaders of their respective parties!!!
01 March 2010, 11:14 PM
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You really are an ****! You said
I then pointed you to an article (and it was the BBC so it must be true!) that backed up my earlier post. That New Labour stuck to Tory spending plans for the first two years of their government. That is a fact.
As for spending on the NHS etc, that's not disputed. They have spent shed loads on the NHS, to good effect or not is another issue. But what is also NOT disputed is their initial sticking to Tory plans.
As for the *ERM debacle*. That was the decision that was backed by ALL 3 parties, the unions and businesses at the time. So it's a little disingenuous to blame the Tories solely for that. And that was how long ago now? Nearly 20 years?
Dave
I then pointed you to an article (and it was the BBC so it must be true!) that backed up my earlier post. That New Labour stuck to Tory spending plans for the first two years of their government. That is a fact.
As for spending on the NHS etc, that's not disputed. They have spent shed loads on the NHS, to good effect or not is another issue. But what is also NOT disputed is their initial sticking to Tory plans.
As for the *ERM debacle*. That was the decision that was backed by ALL 3 parties, the unions and businesses at the time. So it's a little disingenuous to blame the Tories solely for that. And that was how long ago now? Nearly 20 years?
Dave
Our % of GDP on healthcare was lamentable under the previous government..or are you trying to tell me it hasn't gone up under Labour?
% of GDP spend on Schools gone up or down under this government???
I don't remember the Tories giving the BOE independence, or did I miss that? They did that on about day 1 of coming into power.
So please tell me how this government has followed the 'Tory economic plan'???
And ERM is central to the myth that the Tories have a great track record of running the economy is it not??
02 March 2010, 08:14 AM
#73
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1997 Labour Party Manifesto -
"... Stick to planned public spending allocations for the first two years of office Our decisions have not been taken lightly. They are a recognition of Conservative mismanagement of the public finances. For the next two years Labour will work within the departmental ceilings for spending already announced. We will resist unreasonable demands on the public purse, including any unreasonable public sector pay demands ..."
BTW: that's the Labour Party manifesto from 1997 .... in case you can't read that above ....
Dave
02 March 2010, 08:15 AM
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It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.
02 March 2010, 08:17 AM
#75
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to quote M Thatcher on winning the 1979 election
Where there is harmony, may we bring discord. Where there is truth, may we bring error. Where there is faith, may we bring doubt. And where there is hope, may we bring despair."
and she pretty much did
Where there is harmony, may we bring discord. Where there is truth, may we bring error. Where there is faith, may we bring doubt. And where there is hope, may we bring despair."
and she pretty much did
02 March 2010, 08:21 AM
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However, when it became apparent to all but the ego-maniacs in government at the time that we would need to pull out they just continued to plough the country's reserves into the market to try and prop up the ailing pound.
Everyone including all leading economists, business and opposition parties were telling them they had to pull out, but simply to avoid loss of face they frittered away billions overnight (literally) trying to stave off the inevitable.
If you remember in the course of one evening they raised interest rates to 19% and then 25% ... seems almost comical, but was one of the most pathetic and inept displays from a political party I can recall.
02 March 2010, 08:41 AM
#77
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Everyone keeps looking back, rehashing old arguments.
We know what Mr Brown stands for, we have lived it for the last 12 years.
Can anyone tell me what Mr Cameron stands for, or to put it another way, can anyone tell me what a Tory government under David Cameron would look like WITHOUT mentioning Gordon Brown or the current Labour government.
We know what Mr Brown stands for, we have lived it for the last 12 years.
Can anyone tell me what Mr Cameron stands for, or to put it another way, can anyone tell me what a Tory government under David Cameron would look like WITHOUT mentioning Gordon Brown or the current Labour government.
02 March 2010, 10:28 AM
#78
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paul - that is because the essential economic arguments have been won and to all intents and purposes settled
our country is following the American economic model (without the American protectionism)
low tax / low regulation economy
heavy reliance on the service sector, especially financial services
low wage, low skilled workforce, fully inline with the new global economy
the only debate is around the states responsibity to those that can't or don't wish to participate in it.
our country is following the American economic model (without the American protectionism)
low tax / low regulation economy
heavy reliance on the service sector, especially financial services
low wage, low skilled workforce, fully inline with the new global economy
the only debate is around the states responsibity to those that can't or don't wish to participate in it.
02 March 2010, 10:29 AM
#79
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Fact of the matter is this:-
Tories will cut and cut and cut .... they will cut the state education system in favour of private education, they will run down the NHS and make everyone take out Medical Insurance, they will create unrest and strikes, they will destroy the country as they very nearly did under Thatcher and Major!!
Hague is a master politician ... as is Mandleson - what a fight it would be if those two were the leaders of their respective parties!!!
Tories will cut and cut and cut .... they will cut the state education system in favour of private education, they will run down the NHS and make everyone take out Medical Insurance, they will create unrest and strikes, they will destroy the country as they very nearly did under Thatcher and Major!!
Hague is a master politician ... as is Mandleson - what a fight it would be if those two were the leaders of their respective parties!!!
Les
02 March 2010, 03:17 PM
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The hordes of the terminally unemployable and teenage single 'mothers'.
And of course the hundreds of thousands of recently naturalised immigrants and their vastly extended families that are now camped out in the UK.
Oh, and don't forget their terminally stupid core vote who 'always vote Labour' no matter what.
02 March 2010, 06:10 PM
#83
Aye, you're right 
Plus, of course, people like my sister who will NEVER vote tory, not even to remove the sitting Labour MP, because, "they are all the same, the conservatives would just do the same......."
OK, she may be right, but does that mean we NEVER give them a chance and these lot can continue to b*ger up the country.
Plus, of course, people like my sister who will NEVER vote tory, not even to remove the sitting Labour MP, because, "they are all the same, the conservatives would just do the same......."
OK, she may be right, but does that mean we NEVER give them a chance and these lot can continue to b*ger up the country.
02 March 2010, 07:55 PM
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02 March 2010, 08:01 PM
#85
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Dave
02 March 2010, 08:52 PM
#87
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paul - that is because the essential economic arguments have been won and to all intents and purposes settled
our country is following the American economic model (without the American protectionism)
low tax / low regulation economy
heavy reliance on the service sector, especially financial services
low wage, low skilled workforce, fully inline with the new global economy
the only debate is around the states responsibity to those that can't or don't wish to participate in it.
our country is following the American economic model (without the American protectionism)
low tax / low regulation economy
heavy reliance on the service sector, especially financial services
low wage, low skilled workforce, fully inline with the new global economy
the only debate is around the states responsibity to those that can't or don't wish to participate in it.
we live in a high tax / high regulation economy (shame the regulation is so mis-guided!)
the rest of what you say is, unfortunately, true - so much for Labour looking after the working classes.....
02 March 2010, 08:52 PM
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02 March 2010, 09:32 PM
#90
The mistake is assuming that significant swathes of the electorate have the ability to make a rational decision at the ballot box.
Given the utter imbecility, ignorance and downright stupidity of people these days nothing would surprise me come polling day.
Hence of course, this ridiculous government, which merely mirrors the idiots who voted for it last time around, and which is further demonstrated on an almost daily basis by the author of this puerile thread.
A vote for UKIP is simply a vote for Labour. There is only one party with the capability to prevent another "five years of Brown"
Given the utter imbecility, ignorance and downright stupidity of people these days nothing would surprise me come polling day.
Hence of course, this ridiculous government, which merely mirrors the idiots who voted for it last time around, and which is further demonstrated on an almost daily basis by the author of this puerile thread.
A vote for UKIP is simply a vote for Labour. There is only one party with the capability to prevent another "five years of Brown"