dynamix

iTrader: (3)

Indeed and especially so given the state of what you had to work with block wise and the hour it was put together

andyscoobym3

iTrader: (11)

err you said in an earlier post that you run around 450hp in ta all year with the exception of knockhill, how can this be at 2 bar, anyway its irrelivant. i think your idea of wieght saving is a very good one, less weight = less strain on engine,box,drivetrain,brakes ect ect, also less wieght= later breaking point and better handling,
imo boost and revs and power/torque kills subaru engines, i tried on mine to run big power with low boost and cap revs at 7700, and as you know this didnt work for me, as soon as i hit the 600hp wall, my liner cracked,
imo regarding your application, i would run your turbo at its most efficiant on compressor map, and i would run race fuel, as you know it is far far safer and healthier for your engine, you could in theary drop boost slightly to its most efficiant on comp map and run more power ( providing your engine will consume it ) that is just my opinion,

andy h

wrighty338

iTrader: (33)

andy iv never forgot what you told me about big HP imprezas and big ***** when i got that simtek off ya and imo your right you dont need all the hp in the world to go fast

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

I dont recall saying that Andy - oulton and knochill were way down on power (dying and almost dead engine) but the rest were over 500 bhp (short shifting at 6300ish at brands though). Full on for silverstone and snetterton.

The recent dyno sheet was an objective of getting a good dyno result and set up for the marham day. I would run a different map/s for track.

Colin Chapman had it right re weight.

andyscoobym3

iTrader: (11)

very true mate, my mate does oulton park full curcuit in 1 min 48 sec in a car with 400hp per ton, imo that would be around 1 min 29 secs on ta oulton curcuit, with that time he would of done very very well indeed in ta

andy h

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

Steve - evertything has to come out to weld a cage in. The cage needs to go behind the dash (for the regs) and tie into the shell/pillars/roof if making it a worthwhile chassis/shell stiffening use of the extra weight of the cage rather than just carry it as a penalty. It is a shame and I would much rather the interior all stayed in but if I am to do TA I have to do it to be eligible for the club pro class - I have no choice to run in club challenge which is where i feel the car spec sits.

Admittedly TA is a choice but I dont think I can go back to just track days now as the car is too quick for normal track day traffic as I found out at Cadwell.

The car has not gone an uber diet though - there is a bundle more that could be done as you say with things like props and lightweight wheels / hole saw work / components - the doors are being changed because I don't want to gut the standard doors or cut the door panels as I want to put them back on when the car returns to road duties at the end of the season. Still while it is empty it is hard not to strip out some unneeded stuff and make it lighter.

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

I didn't realise the lighter car helped on the braking? but you do realise your on a much heavier car so you can't class pauls old car as a benchmark as you can't compete weight wise. All I meant was for the expense of this extreme weight loss surely a turbo upgrade would of been easier??? You can't say rotated is worse spool as the cars you say you are chasing with more power they have to have a rotated system so if they can do well why can't you?? I know the "V" is good for you but it must be on a limit for you now ??

andyscoobym3

iTrader: (11)

is this the same engine as last june ?
has i been apart since june and now ?

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

Same engine built with the same shocking block as seen in the pictures, put together in a very short period of time including 3 allnighters using new bearings, crank and rods from lateral and some second hand pistons that Paul had.

It has not been out of the car since it fired up 2 days before silverstone.

Steve - the fast cars in this class have more power and less weight than me. It is a lot cheaper to remove some easy weight like i am to try and close this gap a bit while it is all apart anyway having the cage done.

It costs nothing to:
- remove sound proofing
- grind some bolts off
- remove interior trim
- remove airbags that are disabled anyway
- remove wiring that isnt used

This is not extreme weight loss at all just common sense and free performance.

andyscoobym3

iTrader: (11)

an absolute credit to paul and who else was involved in this engine.

did paul map your car on that graph that he posted up when it made 540 ?

andy h

MartynJ

Couldn't agree more Paul, budget is of course a factor, but it is the only one I could see for not going rotated on Time Attack car. Like for like the V will spool faster, but I bet if we trawled through Duncans logs he would rarely be below 4500rpm on the hot laps by which time the 35R has caught and passed the V.
Below is a graph from one of our recent efforts on a 35R with Cosworth heads, cams etc. VPower only, mapping on Sunoco race fuel this week.




Martyn

andyscoobym3

iTrader: (11)

i think this is very unfare,

duncan you have said that the engine has not been out of the car since 2 days before silverstone last year.
you have not answered my question about who mapped your car when you achieved 540hp and 600lbs ft running 2.4 bar ( your words )
i can believe the power figure and the torque figure as andy f got 600lbs ft at 2.4 bar mid range.
the thing i cant believe is that, you have suddenly found another 60hp on same engine, same turbo, and supposidly the same fuel,running slightly less boost, i am no fool, the only answer to this extra power to me is, you have used vp import race fuel (highly likely) or you have all of a sudden turned into the best mapper in the world, (highly unlikely)
the main reason for my post is to try to put some sence into the deluded people that think that they can go out and buy a 321v and get 600hp on some fuel that you buy from morrisons, THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN the turbo is a very good stock mount turbo but it will never flow 600hp on morrisons fuel, period.

sorry duncan i just cant stand bu11 sh1t3rs

Granby

iTrader: (5)

Now where's my popcorn.....................found it

ZEN Performance

Duncan mapped the car himself to 540hp on the graphs I posted, I realised that was from a rolling road day in 2008 (on the old bottom end) where I think he used only 40% E85. I think it was then pushed to as much as 560hp on 100% e85 as it was run in TA for 2009.

I believe Duncan may be using a larger exhaust housing that I had kicking about from Mark to use on a 321v during initial testing.

I wouldn't assume that every 321v install can work as well as Duncan's, I tried the actual turbo that is on Duncan's car first before anyone even knew the 321v existed and struggled to go past 450hp on v-power. However I think I have a good understanding on why we struggled on the other car and I will revisit it with hopefully better results. But I would never try and sell a 321v on the basis of a single result otherwise there will surely be a few people that feel they come up short.

Everything is impossible until someone goes and does it, I never expected 600hp on v-power with the GT35R rotated setup!

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

Andy - chill chap - sorry I have been busy today over in stoke so havent been able to answer your wild and quite honestly insulting accusation immediately.

I mapped the car to 540.9bhp & 603 lb/ft graph as posted before on the original ecu on 40% E85. This was at a PEAK of 2.4 bar - to get the 600 lb/ft. It tailed off at the top end to around 1.7-1.8 bar. I am surprised you dont understand this.

Since then it has gone onto the Solaris/Syvecs (also mapped by me) and with a lot more time getting the map right and the finer tuning available within Syvecs the power has improved mainly due to running more boost at the top but also much better control over fueling. It now runs 2.1 bar flat - hence why lower torque but also hence why more power.

Can I say once again because you seem have a real problem in believing it - I have never run race fuel, I have never run race E85. Mostly Tesco 99 when on normal fuel (or Vpower if passing one) and Morrisons for E85. Why do you feel that I am not telling the truth ? What do I have to gain from bull****ting you ? Seriously, I cannot understand why ...

While some guys are busy spending fortunes on rotated set ups, race fuel at £3 a litre, ported heads, cams, and all kinds of exotica I am very happy running £1.08 for Morrisons E85 on a stock position turbo that has never let me down and takes whatever abuse I throw at it and yet still makes awesome power. I may go down the road of rotated at some point in the future or decide to get my heads ported and polished or fit cams or all three - I dont know yet. 600bhp is just fine for the moment.

Paul - There has been no change of exhaust housing (yet) - it is still exactly the same second hand MD321V as fitted nearly two years ago apart from replacing an actuator. It hasn't been off the car since that engine went in that early morning in June.

A.D.Edmundson

Andy runs a stock mount turbo, no twisted setup and will be running vpower only at time attack, and believe me it runs awsome power.....

I think we should let the times do the talking.

Ant

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

Ant - I wasnt referring to Andy running rotated - just everyone wanting me to spend fortunes on changing a set up I am VERY happy with.

It seems to me that he thinks I am running some kind of wonder fuel or hidden set up or something. Similar to rumours that were around last year that I was running NOS which were just laughable.

A.D.Edmundson

I think the point andy is trying to get across is 600 bhp is a big task and is not a easy one to achieve , espcially with a 321 v.

Tbh I couldn't care less who has what power , it's all about how it drives and how the driver can drive.

For me the track times count nothing else, I map one of the fastest vws in Europe up the strip and it only has 550bhp

good luck to you all, instead of bitchin all the scoobies should stick together!

ant

dazdavies

iTrader: (22)

There's only one person stirring the broth here.

Duncan has been fairly candid about his engine setup if you read his original project thread it's there for all to see. Infact the only thing I have ever seen Duncan be secretive about is his geometry settings. So why Andy is making these ridiculous uncalled for veiled accusations is beyond me. It seems like he's trying to find a fight for the hell of it. First questioning the fuel, then the engine setup and now the mapping?

As they say the bullsh*t stops when the flag drops, roll on round 1 it's going to be an interesting year I think.

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

Agreed - that is why it has taken me a while to get there (or 1.7 bhp away) - i dont think a stock position turbo has done more than mine.

Agreed.

Well done on that one - very impressive.

Agreed

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

Anyone that has ever been to my house and ventured into my garage has seen these - they are up on the wall Daz You'll have to head down if you want to know

I did refuse to state the mods that Paul made to the suspension because it isnt my place to give away Paul's secrets.

Things like tyre pressures and other set up things that Paul and I have worked on over the past year or two on my car are a different matter - that information has taken a lot to get and is pretty closely guarded.

A.D.Edmundson

dazdavies

iTrader: (22)

Wasn't knocking you for it mate. I can fully appreciate the hours of working and the amount of track/road time required to get them right. Was making the point that they are the only thing you've been secretive about that's all.

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

I know you weren't Daz. Thanks btw mate.

dazdavies

iTrader: (22)

Just saying it how I see it, you know me

andyscoobym3

iTrader: (11)

thats my issue, if this map was done on e85 from the pump, then 650 is achievable with vp import without a dout, show me a graph of duncans car doing 650 on vp import, and i will buy the fuel for him and dyno time, thats how confident i am,

terry buckley got 620 if i remember rightly on race fuel, on the bigger turbo MD555

dazdavies

iTrader: (22)

I think you need to chill out and worry about your own car instead of the 2009 Club Class Time Attack champion's LOL

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

Why are you still using the word 'if' Andy ?



Terry's wasnt a standard position turbo fitted in the standard location.

It would be pointless dyno'ing it on VP import as I have absolutely no intention of running it on £10 a litre fuel for the sake of 50bhp which I do not believe it would make anyway.

MartynJ

Not tried E85 myself Andy, but all the info I have seen from other tuners here and abroad seems to rate 100% E85 as highly as any race fuel you can buy, so the gap between the fuels may not be as big as you think.

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

I've never used the stuff Martyn but as you know from our conversations if I can go past MBT with oxygenated E85 then I would be unsure as to whether any further gains could be made with a different fuel. CFM is already The equivalent of 877 (61lb/min of air) on that dyno run albeit a proprtion of this oygen is within the fuel itself.