Mrs ESC isn't to happy ..
28 January 2010, 11:21 PM
#182
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Last edited by STI Mav; 28 January 2010 at 11:24 PM.
28 January 2010, 11:24 PM
#183
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is this thread still going???? brilliant...
Then when Mav's finished with yer, i'll have a go in my 14yr old WRX
haahahhaha
Then when Mav's finished with yer, i'll have a go in my 14yr old WRX
haahahhaha
28 January 2010, 11:26 PM
#184
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28 January 2010, 11:36 PM
#186
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29 January 2010, 01:06 AM
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Great thread, helps me get through nights (Watching the very dull Aussie and Jap markets)
And yet still doesn't compare to cars 10 years earlier? I'd prefer to buy said cheaper car and have something far more well rounded..not because I can't afford anything else, but purley because it's a 'no-brainer' in my eyes.
Conrod, you seem to have deviated...I thought this was a comparrison of ROAD cars between Ford and Renault? If you are comparing Subaru to Renault then i'm affraid you're behind the curve somewhat. You can't actually compare Renault vs Subaru because even though the newage Subarus may be a bit wet a Subaru from 10 years ago could quite happily push you (or maybe tow you?) down the straights and in the twisties. If you then think you are going to start quoting track times, I bought my performance cars not use on the track, but to use in real world conditions. In that aspect, i'll wave goodbye as you understeer steer into a tree However, Like I have said this is not down to a Subaru vrs Renault thread....this is down to a Focus vs Megane and if you truly believe:
a) Renault are and more importantly HAVE produced greater performance cars than Ford over their years (don't quote Renaults racing pedigree...Vauxhall Corsa's have Lotus tuned suspension but they don't exactly go around tracks like a Lotus do, do they)
and
b) Renault are good value for money at 22k
I seriously think need to open your eyes and join the real world...
As for:
It's starting...but it's not there yet...and there is no way i'll ever be convinced that the way forward will be FWD...EVER! If it's not AWD or RWD, i'm just not interested. One small observation...does FWD has greater traction than AWD?
Working class? and Renault sport is what exactly? Did I miss an Aston Martin takeover?
I'm all for a bit of banter but as you have said
and the obvious limit is, paying 22k (i'm assuming that's the cheaper OTR price) for a FWD car that when you grow into a far more accomplished driver, you'll find that limit. I just hope said limit isn't in the form of a tree
Gentlemen, the Renault Sport kit gives you that value for money and performance for the old hard earned.
Conrod, you seem to have deviated...I thought this was a comparrison of ROAD cars between Ford and Renault? If you are comparing Subaru to Renault then i'm affraid you're behind the curve somewhat. You can't actually compare Renault vs Subaru because even though the newage Subarus may be a bit wet a Subaru from 10 years ago could quite happily push you (or maybe tow you?) down the straights and in the twisties. If you then think you are going to start quoting track times, I bought my performance cars not use on the track, but to use in real world conditions. In that aspect, i'll wave goodbye as you understeer steer into a tree
However, Like I have said this is not down to a Subaru vrs Renault thread....this is down to a Focus vs Megane and if you truly believe:a) Renault are and more importantly HAVE produced greater performance cars than Ford over their years (don't quote Renaults racing pedigree...Vauxhall Corsa's have Lotus tuned suspension but they don't exactly go around tracks like a Lotus do, do they)
and
b) Renault are good value for money at 22k
I seriously think need to open your eyes and join the real world...
As for:
The new breed of FWD kit, led by Renault and even including that FRS Halfords special, are starting to make the 4WD stuff look heavy and very blunt on the handling front. No need to cue that Santa Pod (working class activity) traction and wet weather comments chaps.
Popping 300 Bhp through the front wheels in a light and balanced LSD kitted hatch is a serious threat to you fellas, particularly when it involves some road/track action with those particularly challenging bits - the bends.
Popping 300 Bhp through the front wheels in a light and balanced LSD kitted hatch is a serious threat to you fellas, particularly when it involves some road/track action with those particularly challenging bits - the bends.
Working class? and Renault sport is what exactly? Did I miss an Aston Martin takeover?
I'm all for a bit of banter but as you have said
I like 'em but there are obvious limits.
29 January 2010, 01:17 AM
#190
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as you understeer into a tree
29 January 2010, 02:24 AM
#191
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was thinking of putting torque steer originally...
I know Subaru's understeer but not as much as the other FWD's i've thrashed
I know Subaru's understeer but not as much as the other FWD's i've thrashed
29 January 2010, 10:05 AM
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Great thread, helps me get through nights (Watching the very dull Aussie and Jap markets)
And yet still doesn't compare to cars 10 years earlier? I'd prefer to buy said cheaper car and have something far more well rounded..not because I can't afford anything else, but purley because it's a 'no-brainer' in my eyes.
Conrod, you seem to have deviated...I thought this was a comparrison of ROAD cars between Ford and Renault? If you are comparing Subaru to Renault then i'm affraid you're behind the curve somewhat. You can't actually compare Renault vs Subaru because even though the newage Subarus may be a bit wet a Subaru from 10 years ago could quite happily push you (or maybe tow you?) down the straights and in the twisties. If you then think you are going to start quoting track times, I bought my performance cars not use on the track, but to use in real world conditions. In that aspect, i'll wave goodbye as you understeer steer into a tree However, Like I have said this is not down to a Subaru vrs Renault thread....this is down to a Focus vs Megane and if you truly believe:
a) Renault are and more importantly HAVE produced greater performance cars than Ford over their years (don't quote Renaults racing pedigree...Vauxhall Corsa's have Lotus tuned suspension but they don't exactly go around tracks like a Lotus do, do they)
and
b) Renault are good value for money at 22k
I seriously think need to open your eyes and join the real world...
As for:
It's starting...but it's not there yet...and there is no way i'll ever be convinced that the way forward will be FWD...EVER! If it's not AWD or RWD, i'm just not interested. One small observation...does FWD has greater traction than AWD?
Working class? and Renault sport is what exactly? Did I miss an Aston Martin takeover?
I'm all for a bit of banter but as you have said and the obvious limit is, paying 22k (i'm assuming that's the cheaper OTR price) for a FWD car that when you grow into a far more accomplished driver, you'll find that limit. I just hope said limit isn't in the form of a tree
And yet still doesn't compare to cars 10 years earlier? I'd prefer to buy said cheaper car and have something far more well rounded..not because I can't afford anything else, but purley because it's a 'no-brainer' in my eyes.
Conrod, you seem to have deviated...I thought this was a comparrison of ROAD cars between Ford and Renault? If you are comparing Subaru to Renault then i'm affraid you're behind the curve somewhat. You can't actually compare Renault vs Subaru because even though the newage Subarus may be a bit wet a Subaru from 10 years ago could quite happily push you (or maybe tow you?) down the straights and in the twisties. If you then think you are going to start quoting track times, I bought my performance cars not use on the track, but to use in real world conditions. In that aspect, i'll wave goodbye as you understeer steer into a tree
However, Like I have said this is not down to a Subaru vrs Renault thread....this is down to a Focus vs Megane and if you truly believe:a) Renault are and more importantly HAVE produced greater performance cars than Ford over their years (don't quote Renaults racing pedigree...Vauxhall Corsa's have Lotus tuned suspension but they don't exactly go around tracks like a Lotus do, do they)
and
b) Renault are good value for money at 22k
I seriously think need to open your eyes and join the real world...
As for:
It's starting...but it's not there yet...and there is no way i'll ever be convinced that the way forward will be FWD...EVER! If it's not AWD or RWD, i'm just not interested. One small observation...does FWD has greater traction than AWD?
Working class? and Renault sport is what exactly? Did I miss an Aston Martin takeover?
I'm all for a bit of banter but as you have said and the obvious limit is, paying 22k (i'm assuming that's the cheaper OTR price) for a FWD car that when you grow into a far more accomplished driver, you'll find that limit. I just hope said limit isn't in the form of a tree
Some good points Carbon. Nothing wrong with some deviation I feel. Just to clarify my input and viewpoint:
Comparing a new Megane 250 with your 10 year old Scoob is purely subjective. Personal taste, budget and choice. That sort of discussion would be endless. Comparing what is available on the market new and in the same price/performance league is very objective though, my original point.
Real world driving? Well if its road use, then pushing the cornering limits on the public highway and understeering round the leafy country lanes with my eye on that tasty tree isn’t really for me. We could also debate the AWD/FWD thing all day, but AWD is not all win/win. The advantages and boundaries between the 2 are constantly shifting. Off power, you have more AWD mass and inertia to brake and corner. Running round most of a conventional corner, your AWD only really comes into play from apex to exit under power. You still have the same tyre contact points and vehicle dynamics to deal with and you have to accelerate the extra AWD mass.
You have to play the AWD win/loss game regardless of what you think, even in the real world.
Renault racing pedigree? My point here was not some sort of historic review of individual manufacturers motorsport input over the years, but what is Ford or Subaru doing in the UK right now? Not much compared to Renault.
Regarding the accomplished driver bit. I don’t think I’m that shabby. I suspect there are not that many, even on snet, that hold a race licence and compete each year. For the last 2 years and in 2010 it will be RWD for me in the close racing environment, but I’ve also dabbled and raced extensively in FWD and AWD.
Each has their individual merits in specific scenarios and although you may personally prefer one type of drivetrain, you would be very unwise to discount FWD. A quick glance at BTCC provides some good feedback in what is a nice example of a recognisable and regulation controlled competition between RWD/FWD.
29 January 2010, 10:18 AM
#194
No AWD in allowed in BTCC now? (I don't really follow it so I'm not sure).
Remember when Audi entered their AWD A4's a few years back and wiped the floor with everything else? 
Remember when Audi entered their AWD A4's a few years back and wiped the floor with everything else?
29 January 2010, 10:51 AM
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The PPP was an expensive bit of kit in its day. What is the equivalent new bit of kit today? Tweaked Sti 330? Bit more £££ than a Megane 250.
I tell you what, I will get the same age RWD Caterham R500 and **** all over your PPP.
Your go.
29 January 2010, 10:58 AM
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29 January 2010, 11:06 AM
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Much like on the roads then.....they catch up with the performance others have had for years.....eventually!
29 January 2010, 11:10 AM
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Off we go then. A series of useless comparisons in progress.
The PPP was an expensive bit of kit in its day. What is the equivalent new bit of kit today? Tweaked Sti 330? Bit more £££ than a Megane 250.
I tell you what, I will get the same age RWD Caterham R500 and **** all over your PPP.
Your go.
The PPP was an expensive bit of kit in its day. What is the equivalent new bit of kit today? Tweaked Sti 330? Bit more £££ than a Megane 250.
I tell you what, I will get the same age RWD Caterham R500 and **** all over your PPP.
Your go.
29 January 2010, 11:11 AM
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But not when the AWD Audi's first appeared on the scene. None of the FWD or RWD could touch them. So Renault did some work to "catch-up" and did so eventually.
Much like on the roads then.....they catch up with the performance others have had for years.....eventually!
Much like on the roads then.....they catch up with the performance others have had for years.....eventually!
So then, AWD is not all its cracked up to be then.
29 January 2010, 11:18 AM
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29 January 2010, 11:23 AM
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29 January 2010, 11:23 AM
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29 January 2010, 11:25 AM
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hang about you threw in a caterham into a ford v's renault dicusion so who started the pointless comparison's did you not??????? we are talking about family cars are we not??
