^ Human error...handbrake, handbrake, handbrake !

 

Yes well I'd still be more than happy to pit my PPP'd STI piece of limited historic interest against your French Astra VXR any day of the week - and p1$$ all over you every time

 

is this thread still going???? brilliant...

Then when Mav's finished with yer, i'll have a go in my 14yr old WRX haahahhaha

 

You quite welcome to go first if you want, I really don't mind cold, wet, sloppy French seconds

 

just remember boy's as its fwd you will have to do it dry

 

Stu, as it has never happened again, i'm afraid it prob was human error

 

to be fair they make good vans, although next doors van alarm is very sensitive, must be a French trait ?

 

Yay I get to go twice

 

Great thread, helps me get through nights (Watching the very dull Aussie and Jap markets)

And yet still doesn't compare to cars 10 years earlier? I'd prefer to buy said cheaper car and have something far more well rounded..not because I can't afford anything else, but purley because it's a 'no-brainer' in my eyes.

Conrod, you seem to have deviated...I thought this was a comparrison of ROAD cars between Ford and Renault? If you are comparing Subaru to Renault then i'm affraid you're behind the curve somewhat. You can't actually compare Renault vs Subaru because even though the newage Subarus may be a bit wet a Subaru from 10 years ago could quite happily push you (or maybe tow you?) down the straights and in the twisties. If you then think you are going to start quoting track times, I bought my performance cars not use on the track, but to use in real world conditions. In that aspect, i'll wave goodbye as you understeer steer into a tree However, Like I have said this is not down to a Subaru vrs Renault thread....this is down to a Focus vs Megane and if you truly believe:

a) Renault are and more importantly HAVE produced greater performance cars than Ford over their years (don't quote Renaults racing pedigree...Vauxhall Corsa's have Lotus tuned suspension but they don't exactly go around tracks like a Lotus do, do they)

and

b) Renault are good value for money at 22k

I seriously think need to open your eyes and join the real world...

As for:

It's starting...but it's not there yet...and there is no way i'll ever be convinced that the way forward will be FWD...EVER! If it's not AWD or RWD, i'm just not interested. One small observation...does FWD has greater traction than AWD?

Working class? and Renault sport is what exactly? Did I miss an Aston Martin takeover?

I'm all for a bit of banter but as you have said and the obvious limit is, paying 22k (i'm assuming that's the cheaper OTR price) for a FWD car that when you grow into a far more accomplished driver, you'll find that limit. I just hope said limit isn't in the form of a tree

 

lol. i nearly swallowed me chewing gum when i read that !! hahahha

 

was thinking of putting torque steer originally...

I know Subaru's understeer but not as much as the other FWD's i've thrashed

 

yeah i bet !!! lol

see you soon

 

Some good points Carbon. Nothing wrong with some deviation I feel. Just to clarify my input and viewpoint:

Comparing a new Megane 250 with your 10 year old Scoob is purely subjective. Personal taste, budget and choice. That sort of discussion would be endless. Comparing what is available on the market new and in the same price/performance league is very objective though, my original point.

Real world driving? Well if its road use, then pushing the cornering limits on the public highway and understeering round the leafy country lanes with my eye on that tasty tree isn’t really for me. We could also debate the AWD/FWD thing all day, but AWD is not all win/win. The advantages and boundaries between the 2 are constantly shifting. Off power, you have more AWD mass and inertia to brake and corner. Running round most of a conventional corner, your AWD only really comes into play from apex to exit under power. You still have the same tyre contact points and vehicle dynamics to deal with and you have to accelerate the extra AWD mass.

You have to play the AWD win/loss game regardless of what you think, even in the real world.

Renault racing pedigree? My point here was not some sort of historic review of individual manufacturers motorsport input over the years, but what is Ford or Subaru doing in the UK right now? Not much compared to Renault.

Regarding the accomplished driver bit. I don’t think I’m that shabby. I suspect there are not that many, even on snet, that hold a race licence and compete each year. For the last 2 years and in 2010 it will be RWD for me in the close racing environment, but I’ve also dabbled and raced extensively in FWD and AWD.

Each has their individual merits in specific scenarios and although you may personally prefer one type of drivetrain, you would be very unwise to discount FWD. A quick glance at BTCC provides some good feedback in what is a nice example of a recognisable and regulation controlled competition between RWD/FWD.

 

No AWD in allowed in BTCC now? (I don't really follow it so I'm not sure).

Remember when Audi entered their AWD A4's a few years back and wiped the floor with everything else?

 

^ Volvo FOR THE WIN T5R AWD IIRC

 

Stu, i remember those, the most unlikely race cars ever, as aerodynamic as a brick

 

Now that's when the BTCC was really good, loved the volvos, audi and alfas

 

Perhaps that's why I have an affinity with them

 

Off we go then. A series of useless comparisons in progress.

The PPP was an expensive bit of kit in its day. What is the equivalent new bit of kit today? Tweaked Sti 330? Bit more £££ than a Megane 250.

I tell you what, I will get the same age RWD Caterham R500 and **** all over your PPP.

Your go.

 

The Audi A4 got beaten in the 1997 championship by of all things...... A Renault Laguna

 

But not when the AWD Audi's first appeared on the scene. None of the FWD or RWD could touch them. So Renault did some work to "catch-up" and did so eventually.

Much like on the roads then.....they catch up with the performance others have had for years.....eventually!

 

bit hard to get the wife and kids in one of them and diiferent league as it use's a tubular chassis!!!!!!

 

Thanks.

So then, AWD is not all its cracked up to be then.

 

Weren't the Audi's given a shed load of balast to allow the other cars to have a chance of winning?

 

Priceless.

No tubular chassis (no TVRs then?) and you want a pissing competition where you have to have the wife and kids on board.

Any more useless comparisons?

 

Great to watch. Comedy on track performance.

 

Nope, they were already carrying it with the AWD kit....

They had to give the old Frenchie Laguna the ballast to level the playing field.

 

Your R500 vs PPP comparison was probably to most useless we've seen so far, so we'd struggle to beat that for stupidity

 

hang about you threw in a caterham into a ford v's renault dicusion so who started the pointless comparison's did you not??????? we are talking about family cars are we not??