Not quite sure I agree with the above but I would rather have a heroin addiction than an alcohol addiction.

I dislike alcohol immensely. I will have a drink now and again but I try to avoid it as much as possible. I don't like being drunk, I don't like hangovers.

Now, thats not to say I'd be happy being addicted to heroin - some good friends were for a while and the discovery of her being pregnant stopped them on the spot (it wasn't pleasant BTW but 9 years later they are grand)

There are actually two issues here - the legal issue and the health issue. If you want to argue over which is worse for your health you have to take out the issue of legality.

You can't argue an illegal drug over a legal one. An illegal drug is highly likely to lead to crime to feed the onset of a habit. A legal drug you just go in and buy - or you rob someone then go and buy.

Someone with no money and an alcohol addiction is just as likely to rob you as a heroin addict - the difference being because of the illegal status of heroin its A) hard to come buy B) expensive due to the dealers sucking the customers in then giving them less and less but charging the same - I've seen it done and had it attemped on me but the fool didn't know I had moved away and was just visiting.

 

And I disagree with this too, I wouldent say Marijuana is addictive, I smoked spliffs quite regular (well every day )for years and gave it up in an in the blink of an eye when I started getting subjected to drug screening at work, where does the addictiveness part fall into it then?

 

Just out of interest, why was heroin made illegal?

Just a simple answer will do, thanks

Oh, i have just given up 30 years of smoking 3 months ago and it was a doddle

 

People always quote what they "know" as fact and force that idea on to everyone else and assume its the same for everyone.

Bravo and Sara - for the two of you giving up smoking in the blink of eye, you do realise that there are probably hundreds of thousands of people that just can't do it.

There are people that can pick up and put down heroin with only say one bad night of muscle cramps and sickness. It is very addictive though, I wouldn't begin to suggest otherwise.

Smoking nicotine will eventually kill you, we all know that.

The risks involved injecting heroin we all know - however, have you stopped to think why heroin is injected in the first place - again its down to its addiction qualities and its availability and the way the drug works.

You can inject alcohol and be wasted on a very small amount, its harder to inject things like speed and cocaine because of the way the drugs are produced, they don't cook up like heroin does.

You can manage quite well with a heroin addiction, I knew someone who ran a reasonably successful antiques business with an addiction and I didn't find out for about 6 months until someone else he had confided in told me.

My wifes mother was an alcoholic all through her childhood (I actually think both parents were) and the things they got up to disgust me - truly disgusting behaviour.

A friend of my wifes always likes to go out with bad boys - shes one of those types. Anyway, this lad would get drunk, get into fights, go to prison etc etc. On his last release he's developed a bit of a habit for the old brown and I was actually able to hold a reasonable conversation with him - obviously not off it at the time but just mellow enough to talk rather than grunt and show off about what a double hard basterd he was. She threw him out because she didn't want the drugs around her (late teenage) children - WTF!

We actually had a few words on Christmas day because she was round ours, pissed as you like slagging off "druggies" and I pointed out a few home truths.

You could just as easily argue which idiot thought making alcohol and nicotine legal would be a good idea. I would imagine its mostly history, politics and economics as to why some drugs are legal and others are not.

 

Or that not enough research/info was gathered on Alcohol/nicotine before they were made legal, If we were to step back in time and go through the process again knowing then what we do now I very much doubt either would be legal

 

Edd, Dunk and Bravo

a couple of thoughts that I had already posted. The statement that alcohol is more medically dangerous than heroin came from the Government's own advisory body that resigned in disgust at the politicisation of the drugs issue.

Also in terms of addiction although coming off heroin is a serious issue it is unlikely to kill you. Coming off alcohol addiction can literally kill you as there are metabolic control processes that alcohol sublimates that fail when the alcohol is removed. Typically serious alcoholics require drug support during the detox process.

Bravo, when you come down from heroin you have a desire to get the hit again which is multiplied by the dopamine control process in the brain. When you come down off a heavy night out with alcohol you have actually killed of parts of your brain and almost certainly caused some minor, although cumulative damage to your liver and kidneys. Heroin may be more addictive than a night out on the lash but the medical damage is far less from the drug itself.

RA Dunk - as for marijuana the level of addictiveness is very low, even below caffiene. It is in the list for comparison as it is a commonly available psychoactive substance.

It is a useful datapoint though as this Government and the Middle England Daily Mail readers would have you believe that marijuana is creating brain damaged madmen whereas the reality is somewhat different as you clearly know from personal experience...

...or maybe not

 

RA Dunk - to actually develop your point about marijuana this underlines the whole line of my argument. Why is it that some drugs are legal and some are not?

 

China, where you can be shot for tax evasion | Mail Online

I'm not a daily mail reader(i found it looking for some info).

 

I bet theres not been a single claim for duck-pond maintenence for several years running tho

 

the amount of drug his brought into China would good enough to kill more than 28,000 according to media.

he should be executed 27,999 more time, I have no mercy for this kind of ppl which brought disaster to the society and with no respect to other ppl's law.

p.s a Cab driver with no mental record in this country with only a "singing Rabbit song" to prove his mentally ill,what will that make most of the ppl on X-factor??

 

Next for a Chinese tour hopefully

 

Because some are highly addictive and others aren't, are you now trying to tell me that Marijuana is as dangerous as Heroin Trout?

 

No maybe's about it

 

Please point me in the direction where I have suggested that

a) marijuana is dangerous (or heroin for that matter), or

b) where I have suggested that marijuana is similar to heroin, i.e. in addictiveness or psychoactive effect?

I am questioning why some drugs are legal and some are not. The addictiveness point is that nicotine, for example, is a drug, it is freely available and the delivery systems of nicotine cause a huge number of deaths, far more than any proscribed drugs. Similarly, alcohol is a widely available drug that can cause addiction and can have devastating psychological and physiological effects. Even worse it can cause both of these without addiction.

 

 

Some perfectly good points you make above Dave.

How much do we actually know about the actions he took and how the trial was conducted in China. What sort of evidence did they have? Was the heroin his or was he fooled into carrying it in by some evil dealer. Did he know he had a packet of 4 Kg weight of heroin? Do we know the extent of his mental problems and would they have affected his proved guilt in any way. Has there been an accurate description anywhere which clears up all those points?

Until we know all the evidence none of us can say if he was guilty, whether he knew what he was doing, or whether he was conned by someone else.

The Chinese place the death penalty on possession of more than 50gm of heroin. They have a right to do that if they wish whether we agree with such a penalty or not. Bit difficult to explain away 4Kg of the stuff!

Those who disagree with the death penalty have a perfect right to do so-but China is also justified in making its own laws and penalties.

Les

 

I got the impression this was what your were driving at or would have been your next point at least, however looks like I called it wrong

Like I have said two or three times, do you think if they knew back then what they know about alcohol or Tobacco they would have still legalised it? **** no not a hope in hell IMO, Which is probably a pretty big factor in them not legalising some of the drugs doing the rounds today they have made big mistakes in the past and have learned from them........ hopefully

 

Yes ok Trout. So you don't see a difference in degree between using such as alcohol and tobacco and classified drugs.

I don't know how dangerous the effects of heroin are compared with the former mentioned. I do realise of course how bad over consumption of alcohol and tobacco can be for you, but we see the problems caused by the addiction to heroin etc. as far as crime is concerned and also it seems to be a very unhealthy occupation. Why have the authorities made a distinction in their lists of classified drugs?

Les

 

Guys, nine pages now... you'd be better off either just agreeing to disagree, or getting a room as you obviously can't stay away from each other.

 

I'm gobsmacked!!!!

You have without equivocation defended China's decision to execute a drug smuggler because drugs are evil and kill people. And then admit to years of illegal drug use yourself. Please explain how these 2 positions are consistent?

 

To be fair Martin there is a big different between someone who has a spliff or 2 and someone trying to smuggle 4kgs of Heroin into China.

 

Some people are too narrow minded to understand this though

Smoking a spliff is not the same as sticking a f,ing needle in your veins!

 

No it's not the same at all. I however think the point he is driving at, is that regardless of the type of drug, they are in fact both illegal.

Both are dealt/supplied etc. in this country, illegally.

Maybe the question here, is would he have been executed if he was smuggling in a certain amount of marijuana? If so, would you have supported that?

(btw, I don't know if he would've)

 

To be honest, all drugs are going to affect you in different ways during the taking and during the stopping of them.

Going back to the reason for the thread - as I said in my first post, if you go to a country that takes a hard line on drug trafficking and will happily f*ck you up for even minor offences, and then commit crime there, what the hell do you expect?

The Chinese are clearly a very practical people - commit crime, get punished (properly)
Can't drive - get a larger parking space and some pink signs to chear you up.

 

I’m not making a comparison between Heroin and Marijuana, I’m making a comparison between what is legal and what isn’t.
Last night you were only too willing to have pretty much any law breaker executed (although I suspect you were being flippant so you could continue to be evasive). Yet it's quite OK for you take illegal drugs, but absolutely wrong (and worthy of execution) for someone else to traffic them. Can you not see these 2 things are on the same specrum, maybe at different ends

 

Martin, if the drugs are available people will take them. I bet a lot of people that take any drugs wish they were not able to get them and will continue to take them until that time.


If the law is the same for smuggling cannabis then i am sure he would have been executed just the same.

I just found this to throw into the mix, interesting...

Death for pot | Cannabis Culture Magazine

 

[QUOTE]Sorry I disagree, drugs is no different to any other market; it's driven by demand not supply. In other words, as long as there's people prepared to buy, there will always be people only too willing to sell

 

Those who trade in drugs are the ones who will get people hooked putting their lives at risk so that the dealer can make more money!

Not good of course to use those classified drugs, but which side of that spectrum you mention is more culpable Martin?

Les