UK drug smuggler executed
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[quote=Martin2005;9125109]
Sorry I disagree, drugs is no different to any other market; it's driven by demand not supply. In other words, as long as there's people prepared to buy, there will always be people only too willing to sell
You cant get hooked on drugs if there arent any. Take away the source and you solve the problem.
Obviously it is near on impossible to take away every source but you have to start somewhere.
Sorry I disagree, drugs is no different to any other market; it's driven by demand not supply. In other words, as long as there's people prepared to buy, there will always be people only too willing to sell
You cant get hooked on drugs if there arent any. Take away the source and you solve the problem.
Obviously it is near on impossible to take away every source but you have to start somewhere.
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You cannot have one without the other, if you choose to take drugs, you need to buy them off someone. They are 2 sides of the same coin
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[quote=sarasquares;9125150]
But you cannot 'take away the source'. Unless you have some ideas that have been missed by governments across the globe for decades.
The only way of destroying drug trafficking and dealing is to legalise drugs (btw I'm not advocating this), this would render dealers defunct overnight.
The only way of destroying drug trafficking and dealing is to legalise drugs (btw I'm not advocating this), this would render dealers defunct overnight.
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From: Selling the scoob to buy a CTR
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The drugs I took were illegal yes I admit this, but the drugs I took were only class B or C at the time I'm going back 10-15 years now but AFAIK they are now class A is this correct? So you can not compare a class B or C drug to the likes of Heroin its not even the same sport never mind the same league
The drugs I took do not cause mayem in society , dont think ive ever heard of people robbing/mugging/murdering/stealing etc etc to fund their next spliff
The drugs I took got nothing more than a slap across the fingers when caught, the drugs this guy sold is a whole different ball game altogether, you traffic drugs especially Heroin into places like China then you need to accept the consquences its as simple as, unfortunately this guy took the risk and paid the price
So no I do not see that these two things can be on the same level/spectrum at all
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But I don't know enough about the dealer / buyer relationship to know how much this actually happens
Some perfectly good points you make above Dave.
How much do we actually know about the actions he took and how the trial was conducted in China. What sort of evidence did they have? Was the heroin his or was he fooled into carrying it in by some evil dealer. Did he know he had a packet of 4 Kg weight of heroin? Do we know the extent of his mental problems and would they have affected his proved guilt in any way. Has there been an accurate description anywhere which clears up all those points?
Until we know all the evidence none of us can say if he was guilty, whether he knew what he was doing, or whether he was conned by someone else.
The Chinese place the death penalty on possession of more than 50gm of heroin. They have a right to do that if they wish whether we agree with such a penalty or not. Bit difficult to explain away 4Kg of the stuff!
Those who disagree with the death penalty have a perfect right to do so-but China is also justified in making its own laws and penalties.
Les
How much do we actually know about the actions he took and how the trial was conducted in China. What sort of evidence did they have? Was the heroin his or was he fooled into carrying it in by some evil dealer. Did he know he had a packet of 4 Kg weight of heroin? Do we know the extent of his mental problems and would they have affected his proved guilt in any way. Has there been an accurate description anywhere which clears up all those points?
Until we know all the evidence none of us can say if he was guilty, whether he knew what he was doing, or whether he was conned by someone else.
The Chinese place the death penalty on possession of more than 50gm of heroin. They have a right to do that if they wish whether we agree with such a penalty or not. Bit difficult to explain away 4Kg of the stuff!
Those who disagree with the death penalty have a perfect right to do so-but China is also justified in making its own laws and penalties.
Les
I very much doubt anyone that can claim ownership of 4 kilos of brown will ever be in the same country as it let alone be carrying it around themselves.
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From: West Wales
A dealer satisfies an illegal drug taker. Tesco satisfies a legal drug taker.
Again, its the legalities of the chosen poison that create the associated issues. All these drugs will kill you one way or another, the only difference between heroin and alcohol other than affect is its legal stand point. Both dangerous, both addictive, both capable of destroying the lives of takers and those around them.
As for whether the dude would have been executed for smuggling grass - well, if the law in that countries say yes, then face the music if you get caught. If you do something wrong where there are laws you have to abide by them or else what is the point of law? Just because one is slightly harder to stomach than the other is down to the individuals viewpoint.
Again, its the legalities of the chosen poison that create the associated issues. All these drugs will kill you one way or another, the only difference between heroin and alcohol other than affect is its legal stand point. Both dangerous, both addictive, both capable of destroying the lives of takers and those around them.
As for whether the dude would have been executed for smuggling grass - well, if the law in that countries say yes, then face the music if you get caught. If you do something wrong where there are laws you have to abide by them or else what is the point of law? Just because one is slightly harder to stomach than the other is down to the individuals viewpoint.
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From: Type 25. Build No.34
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From: Selling the scoob to buy a CTR
It is well known that dealers target youngsters and offer them free drugs. This in turn gets the 'innocent' youngster hooked and he/she then has to start supporting their own habit and so on and so on.
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In some countries you get your hands chopped off for stealing. In another if the woman is raped she will be stoned to death (i think) But we accept that so why is it any different for a country to implement a law. No one moaned about it before the bloke was executed.
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The idea of the drug 'pusher' - i.e. someone who tempts the non-drug user (often portrayed as children) into using drugs (perhaps initially by giving free samples) - is misleading in a number of ways and detracts from where the real problem with initial drug exposure/use lies.
Firstly, the vast majority of nonusers initially experiment with drugs obtained from friends, family or acquaintances, certainly not from strangers.
Secondly, giving away free drugs as a matter of course does not make economic sense. Few drug dealers, if any, can afford to simply give away free drugs in the hope that people will buy from them as opposed to other drug dealers in the future. This idea is also predicated upon another long-standing myth - that once 'hooked' the new user will have to have more drugs. The reality is that addiction to drugs is never immediate, usually taking many months to develop. No street -level dealer has the resources to invest in such an unpredictable and costly exercise, and certainly not on a systematic basis as some reports have suggested.
Under certain circumstances free drugs ('freebies') are provided by dealers in drug transactions, but research shows that these tend to be only with buyers who have an established relationship with the dealer, having proven themselves to be reliable clients. Freebies are used to reward good clients and to cultivate improved relationships - they are however not a regular or predictable part of drug transactions.
Finally, children are risky to sell to. They are a bad risk, being more likely to tell others about the dealer and being less likely to have a secure and regular income (although other youngsters may be involved in the supply of drugs).
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In some countries you get your hands chopped off for stealing. In another if the woman is raped she will be stoned to death (i think) But we accept that so why is it any different for a country to implement a law. No one moaned about it before the bloke was executed.
There's been a s hit storm brewing over China's human rights record for decades
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From: West Wales
In some countries you get your hands chopped off for stealing. In another if the woman is raped she will be stoned to death (i think) But we accept that so why is it any different for a country to implement a law. No one moaned about it before the bloke was executed.
There is alot of bluster in the media, but can you really see our government on a economic level doing anything other than turning a blind eye and a mild "oh wait, stop"?
Whether we accept other laws and rules is immaterial, that is what happens there and if there you abide by them. Right wrong or unjustifiable.
Martin2005 - I also disagree with the dealer preying on little children but some sh1tty dealers will give you a larger than normal amount to start with and then make it less and less and come up with some rubbish as to why the cost hasn't changed. You then need more money to get the same fix. Not the same but makes sense on an economic level.
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As far as Human Rights are concerned you'll find it impossible to find a country that has acceptable Human Rights, the more you make one group happy the less happy someone else is. Look at poor London, at least three times the number of people as the whole of eg, Scotland, how can you say the local people are happy with this?, it is put upon them whether they like it or not. Human Rights are for who exactly?
China isn't perfect, but then where is?
You'll find arguements about mistreatment anywhere in the world you go.
China isn't perfect, but then where is?
You'll find arguements about mistreatment anywhere in the world you go.
Last edited by Quasi Modo; Dec 30, 2009 at 03:06 PM.
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Personally I don't think legalising heroin will solve the problem. Alcohol and tobacco are legal, however, this hasn't reduced the number of users or stopped the trade, "dealers" are now basically your corner shop or supermarket. However, the Government could set a duty on heroin and rake in more tax revenue like they do with alcohol and tobacco.
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From: Type 25. Build No.34
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I'd be interested in what you consider an appropriate punishment for drug smuggling and your reasons why.
Personally I don't think legalising heroin will solve the problem. Alcohol and tobacco are legal, however, this hasn't reduced the number of users or stopped the trade, "dealers" are now basically your corner shop or supermarket. However, the Government could set a duty on heroin and rake in more tax revenue like they do with alcohol and tobacco.
Personally I don't think legalising heroin will solve the problem. Alcohol and tobacco are legal, however, this hasn't reduced the number of users or stopped the trade, "dealers" are now basically your corner shop or supermarket. However, the Government could set a duty on heroin and rake in more tax revenue like they do with alcohol and tobacco.
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A long prison sentence obviously.
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The tobacco example is interesting though isn’t it? You are incorrect when you suggest that consumption of tobacco or the number of users hasn’t gone down. It has in fact fallen significantly over the past 20 years, due to a few key issues; health, education and taxation.
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The tobacco example is interesting though isn’t it? You are incorrect when you suggest that consumption of tobacco or the number of users hasn’t gone down. It has in fact fallen significantly over the past 20 years, due to a few key issues; health, education and taxation.
Tobacco has been legal for well over a hundred years and the legality of it is not the reason why tobacco consumption has gone down nor why there is a growing availability on the black market.
I suggest you do some research. The facts do not support your assertions.
On average a heroin user will use 483 gms of heroin per year. Surely with a constant number of heroin users that would go up be ten fold each year according to your assertion - it does not.
Prescription heroin users who get as much as they need to not move significantly increase their dosage. In prescription programs the usage tends to level out at 300-500mg per day. The biggest issue with controlled drug programs is methadone which is MUCH more addictive than heroin.
In the first world war it was normal for soldiers to have recreational amounts of heroin/opium to use. Did it turn our Johnnies into smack heads - strangely not!
It is probably true that alcohol addiction as a proportion is lower than heroin addiction; however alchohol is more addictive in that once the body creates physical dependency, coming off alcohol can kill you. Coming off heroin is unpleasant but will not kill you.
As for banning alcohol not being possible (many reasons, I am intrigued) it is complete bollocks. There are nations around the world where alcohol is not pervasive and certainly not legal. In these nations where alcohol does occur it is in circumstances remarkably similar to our crack dens.
There are many assertions on this thread about the dangers of hard drugs, most of them unsubstantiated but reflect the propaganda fed to the public at large. Most of the issues of heroin use reflect the status and access to the drug, rather than the drug itself.
The main difference between most drugs and alcohol is that as a society we have chosen to legalise one of them. We also legalise nicotine which is regarded as one of the most addictive drugs available.
Anyway - this started with the claim that 4kgs of heroin could kill 26,000 people. Which is clearly ridiculous. At least 120,000kgs (certainly much higher) come into the UK every year. On the same basis we could expect up to 780 million deaths as opposed to the 800 actually observed
On average a heroin user will use 483 gms of heroin per year. Surely with a constant number of heroin users that would go up be ten fold each year according to your assertion - it does not.
Prescription heroin users who get as much as they need to not move significantly increase their dosage. In prescription programs the usage tends to level out at 300-500mg per day. The biggest issue with controlled drug programs is methadone which is MUCH more addictive than heroin.
In the first world war it was normal for soldiers to have recreational amounts of heroin/opium to use. Did it turn our Johnnies into smack heads - strangely not!
It is probably true that alcohol addiction as a proportion is lower than heroin addiction; however alchohol is more addictive in that once the body creates physical dependency, coming off alcohol can kill you. Coming off heroin is unpleasant but will not kill you.
As for banning alcohol not being possible (many reasons, I am intrigued) it is complete bollocks. There are nations around the world where alcohol is not pervasive and certainly not legal. In these nations where alcohol does occur it is in circumstances remarkably similar to our crack dens.
There are many assertions on this thread about the dangers of hard drugs, most of them unsubstantiated but reflect the propaganda fed to the public at large. Most of the issues of heroin use reflect the status and access to the drug, rather than the drug itself.
The main difference between most drugs and alcohol is that as a society we have chosen to legalise one of them. We also legalise nicotine which is regarded as one of the most addictive drugs available.
Anyway - this started with the claim that 4kgs of heroin could kill 26,000 people. Which is clearly ridiculous. At least 120,000kgs (certainly much higher) come into the UK every year. On the same basis we could expect up to 780 million deaths as opposed to the 800 actually observed
As for alcohol being banned in other countries, yes i agree it can work but to try and do it in this country now would cause financial meltdown for thousands of buisness's and affect a hell of a lot more. I'm genuinly intrigued too that any of these country's that have banned it recently (i'm presuming your talking about a country doing this recently) are not oil rich or have something else available that is in high demand?
As for goverment statistics, are you telling me they know exactly how many people take heroin? i know of lots of people that smoke/take drugs and i'm pretty sure they didn't fill out forms so the goverment are aware. Just like their 'stats' on immigration. I've seen first hand what heroin can do to people, seen it injected and seen someone that had as much as they wanted and as much cash so never commited crime to purchase it and died as there were no veins left to inject into and got careless! (or desperate)
Heroin ruins lives, just as alcohol does doesn't mean we should legalise them both. Not drinking again wouldn't bother me so it woudn't matter to me to see it banned, neither would smoking.
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This crass and boorish statement might lead anyone to conclude that you are more than remotely racist when it comes to backward nations who want to be as modern and civilised as us.
Good God - you even tell them how to do it!
Now you can either face up to your shortcomings or be in a state of denial.
As you like to say -it's your choice
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Cster,
What modern civilised country did you have in mind?
Last edited by Quasi Modo; Dec 30, 2009 at 07:37 PM.
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"If China wants to integrate with the modern world, then they need to start behaving like a modern civilised country. And that means ending the death penalty."
This crass and boorish statement might lead anyone to conclude that you are more than remotely racist when it comes to backward nations who want to be as modern and civilised as us.
Good God - you even tell them how to do it!
Now you can either face up to your shortcomings or be in a state of denial.
As you like to say -it's your choice
This crass and boorish statement might lead anyone to conclude that you are more than remotely racist when it comes to backward nations who want to be as modern and civilised as us.
Good God - you even tell them how to do it!
Now you can either face up to your shortcomings or be in a state of denial.
As you like to say -it's your choice
You believe criticism of a government is racist? I suggest you go look up the meaning of racism.
By definition racism is making prejudicial remarks about a RACE, when have I EVER done that?.
I've read some dumbass stuff on this forum, but that really does plunge new depths of stupidity
Just be a man and apologise, you're starting to look desperate
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TBH Martin you are starting to come across as a bit of a racist towards the Chinese your self, whether your intentionally meaning to do it or not I don't know but thats the message your sending out
Just because you dont understand their law's it dosent make them wrong
Just because you dont understand their law's it dosent make them wrong
