BNP to get their say on Question time!
23 October 2009, 01:08 PM
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It does make sense. And i have zero problem with integrated immigrants.
But integrated to me means taking off the damned veils. I find it deeply offensive if i'm honest.
But integrated to me means taking off the damned veils. I find it deeply offensive if i'm honest.
23 October 2009, 01:14 PM
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Was very disappointed about last night QT, I was expecting a sensible debate with the issues that everyone i have ever come into contact with wants answers on.
Bearing in mind that i work in an education and training environment and i am fully aware of equality, diversity, equal opportunities issues, having been forced fed these for the past eight years to the point of feeling quite ill.
I am not a BNP supporter, but NG made a few valid points, but the whole thing was like a school playground ruck from start to finish.
The people in the audience were not a typical cross selection of the UK, I have never been impressed with the BBC but they have now sunk even lower than the low.
The BBC must think that i am an idiot not to realise that the audience had been hand picked.
NG may be a nutter, but was not given the opportunity to explain himself, with most of the rhetoric based on unproven sensationalism.
Never thought i'd see the day when QT turned into an episode of the Jeremy Kyle show.
In fact the whole performance was like a Punch and Judy show minus, the sausages and the policeman.
Bearing in mind that i work in an education and training environment and i am fully aware of equality, diversity, equal opportunities issues, having been forced fed these for the past eight years to the point of feeling quite ill.
I am not a BNP supporter, but NG made a few valid points, but the whole thing was like a school playground ruck from start to finish.
The people in the audience were not a typical cross selection of the UK, I have never been impressed with the BBC but they have now sunk even lower than the low.
The BBC must think that i am an idiot not to realise that the audience had been hand picked.
NG may be a nutter, but was not given the opportunity to explain himself, with most of the rhetoric based on unproven sensationalism.
Never thought i'd see the day when QT turned into an episode of the Jeremy Kyle show.
In fact the whole performance was like a Punch and Judy show minus, the sausages and the policeman.
23 October 2009, 01:16 PM
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Immigrants take the low paid jobs because they end up living in cramped squallid conditions.... a two bed flat near me has three Polish couples living in it. That way they can afford to take the jobs available.
I DO blame the benefits system myself.
A wee story for you, an African muslim arrives here with his family and are given a home, and because he fell off the Eurostar and hurt his back, they get a "disability" car provided.... why did he not claim asylum in the first country he arrived in ?
dunx
I DO blame the benefits system myself.
A wee story for you, an African muslim arrives here with his family and are given a home, and because he fell off the Eurostar and hurt his back, they get a "disability" car provided.... why did he not claim asylum in the first country he arrived in ?
dunx
Last edited by dunx; 23 October 2009 at 01:17 PM.
23 October 2009, 01:29 PM
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regardles of how it looks i can assure they dont wear it to offend anyone my mrs doesnt wear one but my mum does but she doesnt cover her face. the islamic guidlines are for a women to cover up modestley now some people say to cover the hair and not to wear tight clothing that can reveal bodly parts as it could attract the wrong attention. take shakira for instance the minute you see her what goes through your mind i know what goes through mine lol you might say hi she will say hello and it all starts from somewhere. so to stop anything women should dress modeslty not showing body parts etc not that im complaining but it all leads to something it could be a problem if your married. how many times have you seen partners cheat on each other not that everyone will do it but im sure if your in an office by yourself and you have this sexy secertary flirting with you i would find it very hard to tell her sorry im married. ill proberly thinkmore of the lines no one is here i really wouldnt mind and for all i know that could be some ones wife. cheating has destroyed many happy homes. dont get me wrong i have a lot of female friends my wife aint too happy about it but i have learnt to keep my distance to no midnight phone calls or going out with them for drinks as i know what i could lead to sometimes so i just dont take that risk anymore, if i do go out with female friends i always bring my other half go out woth a group of mates. is that making more sence or am i chatting utter crap
23 October 2009, 01:36 PM
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Dunx, that is one of the things that seriously annoys me about the asylum system. My understanding is that you should claim asylum in the first country you reach outside of your own country. If that is indeed the case, then there must be a direct, non-stop train route from a heck of a lot of countries. The same goes for boat routes and to a lesser extent aircraft routes. The point being, I find it hard to accept that the UK is the first country you would enter, legally or otherwise, from your point of origin. Granted with air flight it's possible to cover great distances, however, I'm still not convinced the UK will be the first port of entry you'd encounter.
I believe I've mentioned before that what is perhaps needed is a "BNP Lite". Strip out all the racist stuff, I'm talking about "bash a wog" type racist stuff and not some of the stuff the over PC government would no doubt call racist when it's just about getting other cultures to integrate. Also strip out the anti-heterosexual stuff. Keep anything that talks about how important it is to integrate, and how if you decide to spout hatred about the country you're in then you should decide to move elsewhere, and if you were an immigrant then you'll be asked to leave.
Anything that suggests a better immigration system, perhaps a point system like Canada (I think B2Z mentioned this as well) so if you wish to enter the UK, you have to meet certain criteria.
Keep anything in that would get the workshy lazy dole scroungers back to work. Those who we know can work but choose not to. I don't care if they have to clean public toilets, it's a job, do it. No job, no benefits. Same goes for the breeding machines that have kids to get a bigger house or benefits and don't work an neither does the partner. Get the partner back to work, and limit the benefits that are dished out to them.
I would guess they also have something about dealing with the lack of respect of others in today's youth and young adults. If not then this should be added. Let's be blunt here, something to deal with the chav types and feral kids who have no fear nor respect for people, their property and who you, their teachers or the police basically cannot touch. Teachers can't give them a deserved clip round the ear, parents, well, if you can call them that, I don't think much actual parenting happens, can't discipline them for fear of being labeled "child abusers". The police if they do manage to apprehend the ******* pass them onto a system where their sentence is laughable. ASBO's should not be seen as a badge of honour, should be a mark of shame and humiliation and not something to aspire to.
I believe I've mentioned before that what is perhaps needed is a "BNP Lite". Strip out all the racist stuff, I'm talking about "bash a wog" type racist stuff and not some of the stuff the over PC government would no doubt call racist when it's just about getting other cultures to integrate. Also strip out the anti-heterosexual stuff. Keep anything that talks about how important it is to integrate, and how if you decide to spout hatred about the country you're in then you should decide to move elsewhere, and if you were an immigrant then you'll be asked to leave.
Anything that suggests a better immigration system, perhaps a point system like Canada (I think B2Z mentioned this as well) so if you wish to enter the UK, you have to meet certain criteria.
Keep anything in that would get the workshy lazy dole scroungers back to work. Those who we know can work but choose not to. I don't care if they have to clean public toilets, it's a job, do it. No job, no benefits. Same goes for the breeding machines that have kids to get a bigger house or benefits and don't work an neither does the partner. Get the partner back to work, and limit the benefits that are dished out to them.
I would guess they also have something about dealing with the lack of respect of others in today's youth and young adults. If not then this should be added. Let's be blunt here, something to deal with the chav types and feral kids who have no fear nor respect for people, their property and who you, their teachers or the police basically cannot touch. Teachers can't give them a deserved clip round the ear, parents, well, if you can call them that, I don't think much actual parenting happens, can't discipline them for fear of being labeled "child abusers". The police if they do manage to apprehend the ******* pass them onto a system where their sentence is laughable. ASBO's should not be seen as a badge of honour, should be a mark of shame and humiliation and not something to aspire to.
Last edited by Markus; 23 October 2009 at 01:48 PM.
23 October 2009, 01:36 PM
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they say what goes around comes around some say if we didnt mess with them at the start then we wouldnt be going through this if we didnt conquer and steal there wealth.
im with the whole thing of controlling immigrants do you know how many albinian and kurdish gangsters are over here illegally take a walk through london and see for your self. extorision drug pushing and prostatuition is normal.
im with the whole thing of controlling immigrants do you know how many albinian and kurdish gangsters are over here illegally take a walk through london and see for your self. extorision drug pushing and prostatuition is normal.
23 October 2009, 01:40 PM
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You see, Mus, you've encapsulated the chasm between Western/Islamic treatment of women in a nutshell.
This is the West. In the West we don't need or want veils or headscarves on our women. We also don't pretend that men (or women for that matter) cannot be gay. We also don't believe that non Muslims were created from apes and swines. I could go on.
This is Britain. In Britain, i want to live with British people, with Btritish ideas. What i strongly object to is having to accept a wider and wider definition of what makes somebody "British". Being born here is only the start, in my opinion.
This is the West. In the West we don't need or want veils or headscarves on our women. We also don't pretend that men (or women for that matter) cannot be gay. We also don't believe that non Muslims were created from apes and swines. I could go on.
This is Britain. In Britain, i want to live with British people, with Btritish ideas. What i strongly object to is having to accept a wider and wider definition of what makes somebody "British". Being born here is only the start, in my opinion.
23 October 2009, 01:42 PM
#310
You see, Mus, you've encapsulated the chasm between Western/Islamic treatment of women in a nutshell.
This is the West. In the West we don't need or want veils or headscarves on our women. We also don't pretend that men (or women for that matter) cannot be gay. We also don't believe that non Muslims were created from apes and swines. I could go on.
This is Britain. In Britain, i want to live with British people, with Btritish ideas. What i strongly object to is having to accept a wider and wider definition of what makes somebody "British". Being born here is only the start, in my opinion.
This is the West. In the West we don't need or want veils or headscarves on our women. We also don't pretend that men (or women for that matter) cannot be gay. We also don't believe that non Muslims were created from apes and swines. I could go on.
This is Britain. In Britain, i want to live with British people, with Btritish ideas. What i strongly object to is having to accept a wider and wider definition of what makes somebody "British". Being born here is only the start, in my opinion.
23 October 2009, 01:44 PM
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But Mustafa, why do i always see women at the shopping centre walking around Top Shop wearing the veil and fully covered, surely they realise they will never be allowed to buy or wear the latest fashion item?
Mind you, i am just the same, i was looking around a Ferrarri dealers the other week with no chance of being able to buy one!
Mind you, i am just the same, i was looking around a Ferrarri dealers the other week with no chance of being able to buy one!
23 October 2009, 01:47 PM
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you make it sound as its forced upon women why doesnt my wife cover her hair oh yes for the record my wife aint even muslim. these guidlines are for muslims not british we muslims must live by the law of the land and the law doesnt say dont wear veils. who says the west was created from swine or apes are you calling m mrs a swine lol. where did that comment come from tel boy i have read the quran tell me where it says that as im intrested to know.
23 October 2009, 01:53 PM
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You see, Mus, you've encapsulated the chasm between Western/Islamic treatment of women in a nutshell.
This is the West. In the West we don't need or want veils or headscarves on our women. We also don't pretend that men (or women for that matter) cannot be gay. We also don't believe that non Muslims were created from apes and swines. I could go on.
This is Britain. In Britain, i want to live with British people, with Btritish ideas. What i strongly object to is having to accept a wider and wider definition of what makes somebody "British". Being born here is only the start, in my opinion.
This is the West. In the West we don't need or want veils or headscarves on our women. We also don't pretend that men (or women for that matter) cannot be gay. We also don't believe that non Muslims were created from apes and swines. I could go on.
This is Britain. In Britain, i want to live with British people, with Btritish ideas. What i strongly object to is having to accept a wider and wider definition of what makes somebody "British". Being born here is only the start, in my opinion.
Alot of this 'backward' thinking exists outside of the muslim faith and outside 'muslim' counrties the world over
23 October 2009, 01:55 PM
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you make it sound as its forced upon women why doesnt my wife cover her hair oh yes for the record my wife aint even muslim. these guidlines are for muslims not british we muslims must live by the law of the land and the law doesnt say dont wear veils. who says the west was created from swine or apes are you calling m mrs a swine lol. where did that comment come from tel boy i have read the quran tell me where it says that as im intrested to know.
Your point about the law of the land is irrelevant. Of course it's not a law. That isn't the point!!! I don't want laws to enforce Britishness!! But i don't want British women to wear headwear that is relevant only to an Islamic country!!
23 October 2009, 01:59 PM
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Quite possibly. But doesn't that speak volumes about the supression of women within Islamic societies? Why should Britain be the place where they can live "as" Muslims whilst taking advantage of our more reasonable approach to women? The hypocrisy just beggars belief.
23 October 2009, 02:03 PM
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you make it sound as its forced upon women why doesnt my wife cover her hair oh yes for the record my wife aint even muslim. these guidlines are for muslims not british we muslims must live by the law of the land and the law doesnt say dont wear veils. who says the west was created from swine or apes are you calling m mrs a swine lol. where did that comment come from tel boy i have read the quran tell me where it says that as im intrested to know.
60 Shall I tell thee of a worse (case) than theirs for retribution with Allah ? (Worse is the case of him) whom Allah hath cursed, him on whom His wrath hath fallen and of whose sort Allah hath turned some to apes and swine, and who serveth idols. Such are in worse plight and further astray from the plain road.
In the copy of the Koran that I have at home, there is note to verse 60 saying that the commentator Tabari regards the reference to apes and pigs as metaphorical, in the sense “like apes and pigs”.
In the second surah of the Koran there is another reference to apes.
62 Lo! Those who believe (in that which is revealed unto thee, Muhammad), and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans – whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right – surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.
63 And (remember, O Children of Israel) when We made a covenant with you and caused the mount to tower above you, (saying): Hold fast that which We have given you, and remember that which is therein, that ye may ward off (evil).
64 Then, even after that, ye turned away, and if it had not been for the grace of Allah and His mercy ye had been among the losers.
65 And ye know of those of you who broke the Sabbath, how We said unto them: Be ye apes, despised and hated!
My interpretation of verse 65 is that if you broke the sabbath, you are apes and will be despised. I would assume breaking the sabbath would be applied to any religion that does not follow the rules of the sabbath, eg; being catholic, thus, unless I'm wrong, Allah is saying I should be despised and hated because of this.
Is this perhaps the foundation of why the "west" is hated so much, because we do not follow the sabbath?
23 October 2009, 02:06 PM
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@Geezer
No I am not and I detest their views. My views above aren't based on racial hatred thanks but the fact this country lets in just about anyone who tries to get here.
As I clearly pointed out above I have no issue with immigration if it based on a points system that only lets in those who want to work with skills that are in short supply and in high demand.
Unemployment is massive at the moment and if there weren't so many foreigners working here perhaps the unemployment figures wouldn't be so high.
Signing the EU agreement allowing such immigration in my opinion (which I am entitled to and does not make me a BNP voter) was wrong. Living in Kent and having a lot of the Eastern European immigrants drive to this country and therefore come through Dover I see a hell of a lot Eastern European people locally to where I live. For example I don't like going into a supermarket and find i'm having to push through hoards of Polish shoppers all speaking Polish who seem to want to do their shopping en masse. How many of their cars sitting out in the car park are legally taxed and insured here and have valid MOT's? How many of them have contributed to years of tax and NI to pay for the local services they are freely using such as the NHS or education? Services that I have paid for yet they are getting for free and having a negative impact of the stretching of such services. Perhaps take away their free use of dr's and hospitals and the waiting lists will drop. I'm afraid I see them as nothing but free loaders who are using services that have been paid for by the tax payer. I don't pay tax for it to provide local services to people who have come from another country and contributed nothing to the system.
No I am not and I detest their views. My views above aren't based on racial hatred thanks but the fact this country lets in just about anyone who tries to get here.
As I clearly pointed out above I have no issue with immigration if it based on a points system that only lets in those who want to work with skills that are in short supply and in high demand.
Unemployment is massive at the moment and if there weren't so many foreigners working here perhaps the unemployment figures wouldn't be so high.
Signing the EU agreement allowing such immigration in my opinion (which I am entitled to and does not make me a BNP voter) was wrong. Living in Kent and having a lot of the Eastern European immigrants drive to this country and therefore come through Dover I see a hell of a lot Eastern European people locally to where I live. For example I don't like going into a supermarket and find i'm having to push through hoards of Polish shoppers all speaking Polish who seem to want to do their shopping en masse. How many of their cars sitting out in the car park are legally taxed and insured here and have valid MOT's? How many of them have contributed to years of tax and NI to pay for the local services they are freely using such as the NHS or education? Services that I have paid for yet they are getting for free and having a negative impact of the stretching of such services. Perhaps take away their free use of dr's and hospitals and the waiting lists will drop. I'm afraid I see them as nothing but free loaders who are using services that have been paid for by the tax payer. I don't pay tax for it to provide local services to people who have come from another country and contributed nothing to the system.
Now even if we didn't have that, immigrants are not depriving UK people of jobs (in general, of course). They are doing jobs that UK people are not doing. We have already been over this! Now maybe like you said (and to be honest I agree) we should encourage these jobs to be done by UK people, it would be better for us all as a nation, but that is not the fault of the immigrants!
As for them using our services, up until I got my first job, I hadn't conrtibuted one penny to all the services or hopistal treatments I needed. Why are immigrants any different? They will build up their donations over time like everyone else, because they are working, not like the chav scum underclass which bleeds us dry on benefits.
And before you go on about how the non-working ones shouldn't get anything, they are no different to non-working Brits either.
You say you're not a racist, but you are clearly xenophobic because your arguments apply equally to British people.
Geezer
23 October 2009, 02:17 PM
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Apparently,Griffin and or the BNP are to sue the BBC as they believe that QT was a one sided attack on them and not a balanced debate.Has been reported as getting up to 4 times its usual audience.
I do think that the true side of the BNP would have better been seen with a more balanced programme,covering a multitude of issues.However,this programme has dominated the news for the past few weeks,so you could say that the issue of the BNP was a true reflection of current,British news...
Has anyone actually changed their views ie they would or would not now vote for them as a result of the QT programme?
I do think that the true side of the BNP would have better been seen with a more balanced programme,covering a multitude of issues.However,this programme has dominated the news for the past few weeks,so you could say that the issue of the BNP was a true reflection of current,British news...
Has anyone actually changed their views ie they would or would not now vote for them as a result of the QT programme?
23 October 2009, 02:22 PM
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in arabic when they say apes they mean people living like apes and swines or acting. doesnt say anything about anyone been an actual ape or swine.
telboy google is great but somtimes can be very misleading as shown above dont take what i say as the truth ask anyone that speaks arabic they would be able to give you can a clearer translation of it.
the quran is not written in modern arabic its more like romeo juliet english so expect to come across a few words or sentence the can be interpreted in a few diffrent meanings. also feel free to email certian scholars as they will give you much better answers than me and im not talking about extremist.
telboy google is great but somtimes can be very misleading as shown above dont take what i say as the truth ask anyone that speaks arabic they would be able to give you can a clearer translation of it.
the quran is not written in modern arabic its more like romeo juliet english so expect to come across a few words or sentence the can be interpreted in a few diffrent meanings. also feel free to email certian scholars as they will give you much better answers than me and im not talking about extremist.
23 October 2009, 02:30 PM
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Looking at all the papers today and watching the news I must have watched a different programme to all the news editors out there. The whole show was a 'let's get Nick Griffin' witchunt. I thought Dimbleby, up there on his moral elevated chair, had it in for NG and allowed the guy to be interrupted and shouted down. Devoting the whole show to immigration and the Holocaust was also a mistake.
Listening to various radio phone ins today the general theme was that the show was a missed opportunity to discuss the real issues of the day. The audience and the panel were pretty much a disgrace focussing one a few issues. The vast majority of aired comments were either pro Griffen or the way the guy was treated. Apparently 3 counties radio producers said there was overwhelmingly supportive comments for Griffen.
I'd imagine most people who voted BNP were using it as a protest vote, race just being one issue. After watching the show, I think I'm more likely to vote BNP for the first time come the next election than I ever was. I'm fed up about a lot of issues, immigration being well down the list.
Listening to various radio phone ins today the general theme was that the show was a missed opportunity to discuss the real issues of the day. The audience and the panel were pretty much a disgrace focussing one a few issues. The vast majority of aired comments were either pro Griffen or the way the guy was treated. Apparently 3 counties radio producers said there was overwhelmingly supportive comments for Griffen.
I'd imagine most people who voted BNP were using it as a protest vote, race just being one issue. After watching the show, I think I'm more likely to vote BNP for the first time come the next election than I ever was. I'm fed up about a lot of issues, immigration being well down the list.
23 October 2009, 02:37 PM
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Unemployment rates have little to do with immigration! They are currently so high due to that little thing you may have noticed over the last 18 months, the credit crunch.......
Now even if we didn't have that, immigrants are not depriving UK people of jobs (in general, of course). They are doing jobs that UK people are not doing. We have already been over this! Now maybe like you said (and to be honest I agree) we should encourage these jobs to be done by UK people, it would be better for us all as a nation, but that is not the fault of the immigrants!
As for them using our services, up until I got my first job, I hadn't conrtibuted one penny to all the services or hopistal treatments I needed. Why are immigrants any different? They will build up their donations over time like everyone else, because they are working, not like the chav scum underclass which bleeds us dry on benefits.
And before you go on about how the non-working ones shouldn't get anything, they are no different to non-working Brits either.
You say you're not a racist, but you are clearly xenophobic because your arguments apply equally to British people.
Geezer
Now even if we didn't have that, immigrants are not depriving UK people of jobs (in general, of course). They are doing jobs that UK people are not doing. We have already been over this! Now maybe like you said (and to be honest I agree) we should encourage these jobs to be done by UK people, it would be better for us all as a nation, but that is not the fault of the immigrants!
As for them using our services, up until I got my first job, I hadn't conrtibuted one penny to all the services or hopistal treatments I needed. Why are immigrants any different? They will build up their donations over time like everyone else, because they are working, not like the chav scum underclass which bleeds us dry on benefits.
And before you go on about how the non-working ones shouldn't get anything, they are no different to non-working Brits either.
You say you're not a racist, but you are clearly xenophobic because your arguments apply equally to British people.
Geezer
As for your example of you never paying until you were 18 that is a poor example as I assume your parents worked and paid tax? Therefore all the time you were a child your parents tax contributions paid for the services you used as a child.
Unemployment rates wouldn't be so high if the jobs done by Johnny foreigner were available to those unemployed UK folk looking for work. So yes foreigners working are having an impact on UK unemployment at the moment.
Oh and to add that your assumption that immigrants only do low paid jobs that no British person wants to do is utter nonsense. IT in London is ram packed full of Aussies and South Africans all doing IT jobs that plenty of British people could now be doing having been made redundant through the credit crunch. Every company i've worked for had IT bods from either Aus or SA or both. They are here because the salaries are better here than at home. The last SA guy I worked with was here for a number of years as part of his plan in life to then take that money back with him and live a life of luxury in SA.
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23 October 2009, 02:41 PM
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Even if we had a points system liek you suggest, so we only allow 'useful' people in, what would you do if they need major heart surgery within 6 months of coming here? Ship them back off to their country of origin to have treatment there, because they certainly wouldn't have made sufficient contributions in your eyes!
These jobs were available, always have been, but the lazy *******s who sponge off their own people didn't want them.And yes, there is an element of people being undercut by some immigrants. Well boo hoo, that is what a capitalist system is all about. The great British public in their quest for everything cheap have to realise that there is a trade off.
Geezer
23 October 2009, 03:11 PM
#326
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Yes, because you fail to apply those same criteria to UK people who have never paid a penny (you may well feel the same, but your continued reluctance to mention it would suggest otherwise).
People have to start somewhere. Are you advocating that people should pay into the UK tax system for a few years before being allowed to come and work here? That's a really good idea..........
Even if we had a points system liek you suggest, so we only allow 'useful' people in, what would you do if they need major heart surgery within 6 months of coming here? Ship them back off to their country of origin to have treatment there, because they certainly wouldn't have made sufficient contributions in your eyes!
Johnny Foreigner? And you say you're not xenophobic?These jobs were available, always have been, but the lazy *******s who sponge off their own people didn't want them.
And yes, there is an element of people being undercut by some immigrants. Well boo hoo, that is what a capitalist system is all about. The great British public in their quest for everything cheap have to realise that there is a trade off.
Geezer
People have to start somewhere. Are you advocating that people should pay into the UK tax system for a few years before being allowed to come and work here? That's a really good idea..........
Even if we had a points system liek you suggest, so we only allow 'useful' people in, what would you do if they need major heart surgery within 6 months of coming here? Ship them back off to their country of origin to have treatment there, because they certainly wouldn't have made sufficient contributions in your eyes!
Johnny Foreigner? And you say you're not xenophobic?
These jobs were available, always have been, but the lazy *******s who sponge off their own people didn't want them.And yes, there is an element of people being undercut by some immigrants. Well boo hoo, that is what a capitalist system is all about. The great British public in their quest for everything cheap have to realise that there is a trade off.
Geezer
Then once they have paid into the system for say 3 years worth of tax and NI they become eligible for such public services.These jobs have always been available? Yes they have and they are being given to someone foreign when they could be given to someone from the UK. Why should the SA bloke I mentioned have been allowed to come here and line his pockets so he could go back home and live a cushy life? Plenty of British IT workers out of work who could be given these jobs instead of foreigners applying.
I'm glad you are happy to pay your tax so it pays for those from other countries to have an easy life. I am for one am not. I'd rather the foreigners weren't here using the services so that there wasn't such a stretch on services. If you think i'm Xenophobic I couldn't give two hoots because I know i'm not.
23 October 2009, 03:12 PM
#327
Scooby Regular
In general immigration is beneficial to a country – makes it stronger imo
Just compare America, still one of the most successful countries on earth – built on immigration, and will bounce back from the Credit Crunch – even stronger imo)
And Japan – which is slowly going down the plughole due to ridiculous immigration/ethnic policies.
I love living in multi ethnic, multi cultural societies like London/New York
Seems like most snetters want to slowly in breed themselves into a load of banjo playing nutters.
People who constantly whinge about it would do better to concentrate on their own lives – because it seems they are sadly lacking in any self belief whatsoever if they have to constantly attack other people who don’t confirm to their own self image.
In brief
Jack Straw – ridiculous and pathetic
Chris Huhne – irrelevant (Lib-Dem as ever) should be Chris Who’ne?
Bonnie G – aloof and a smart ****
Baroness Warsi – ars3 licking idiot
But NG is just a silly **** cvnt, with I imagine, a very small ****
And for the record comparing him to Jack Straw (and the other guests) is like comparing dog **** to baked beans – I hate baked beans with a passion, but I don’t even like having dog **** on my shoe.
And also people who think the other guest gave NG a hard time have not seen much QT in the past.
Just compare America, still one of the most successful countries on earth – built on immigration, and will bounce back from the Credit Crunch – even stronger imo)
And Japan – which is slowly going down the plughole due to ridiculous immigration/ethnic policies.
I love living in multi ethnic, multi cultural societies like London/New York
Seems like most snetters want to slowly in breed themselves into a load of banjo playing nutters.
People who constantly whinge about it would do better to concentrate on their own lives – because it seems they are sadly lacking in any self belief whatsoever if they have to constantly attack other people who don’t confirm to their own self image.
In brief
Jack Straw – ridiculous and pathetic
Chris Huhne – irrelevant (Lib-Dem as ever) should be Chris Who’ne?
Bonnie G – aloof and a smart ****
Baroness Warsi – ars3 licking idiot
But NG is just a silly **** cvnt, with I imagine, a very small ****
And for the record comparing him to Jack Straw (and the other guests) is like comparing dog **** to baked beans – I hate baked beans with a passion, but I don’t even like having dog **** on my shoe.
And also people who think the other guest gave NG a hard time have not seen much QT in the past.
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 23 October 2009 at 04:21 PM.
23 October 2009, 03:19 PM
#328
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Even if we had a points system liek you suggest, so we only allow 'useful' people in, what would you do if they need major heart surgery within 6 months of coming here? Ship them back off to their country of origin to have treatment there, because they certainly wouldn't have made sufficient contributions in your eyes!
The first is that you don't have arranged employment, this is factored into the points system, and I think arranged employment will give you 10 out of the 67 points you need.
The second is that the job you are applying for isn't in demand, by that I mean it is a job that any Canadian citizen or permanent resident could do, thus you could be seen to be taking a job away from a resident.
Even if you did have arranged employment, you still, for quite a few jobs (there is a list of 38 very in demand occupations) require an LMO (Labor Market Opinion) from the government. This is issued to show that you're going to be doing a job for which there is some demand.
The above does make it difficult to just up sticks and emigrate to Canada, you can't just walk in an get a job, well, not legally.
There are other routes to get here and then get a job as well, all legal, but they will take time.
When it comes to the major surgery side of things. One of the requirements for most immigration routes into Canada is that you are required to have a medical. If something is found on the medical then you could well be refused entry on those grounds, so in some cases, the major heart surgery example might not hold water, as it could well be due to some pre-existing condition, which will be picked up by the medical and thus refuse you entry in the first place.
The general rule is that if you have a condition that will result in a major cost to Canada's health service (I think all of Canada has an NHS like system, I know Ontario certainly does), and I think that is typically worked out to ≥ $5000 (Canadian Dollars) a year, then again, entry will be refused.
Now, if you do manage to gain entry with JUST a work permit, ie; no permanent residence, then I believe you do NOT qualify for free healthcare. My case was different, as I was an intra-company transferee, and that does allow for enrollment in OHIP (Ontario's healthcare system). So, no free healthcare means you would need to pay for any medical assistance you require and typically you'd take out a health insurance policy to cover that.
Thus in the example given, if you don't have ohip, you have to pay, and if you don't have health insurance, well, I'm not exactly sure what happens, I guess you don't get treated.
It's all really to do with you, at that point being a temporary resident and not a permanent one, and it is quite probably set up this way so you don't get people just coming over to work on a temp permit and then costing taxpayers vast amounts of money due to surgery and when they are all better, buggering off back from whence they came.
Yes, I'm talking about Canada and not the UK, but the point is, the UK could possibly change things to have a similar system to Canada.
23 October 2009, 03:26 PM
#329
Guest
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Markus that is exactly the system I would like the UK to adopt as it works for Canada, Australia, the US etc. Yet people like Geezer on here think its fantastic we let in who ever wants to come here to bleed off our services. No wonder this country is falling apart and bursting at the seams.
Oh and according to Geezer Canada must be Xenophobic by having that system in place as that is all I want for the UK yet i'm Xenophobic for wanting that.
Oh and according to Geezer Canada must be Xenophobic by having that system in place as that is all I want for the UK yet i'm Xenophobic for wanting that.
Last edited by Bravo2zero_sps; 23 October 2009 at 03:28 PM.
23 October 2009, 03:28 PM
#330
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It's a pretty good system IMO. As said, I'm biased as I'm lucky enough to be able to use the system, and I have done to get repeat prescriptions for my inhaler.
One other point about the system is that in Ontario and three other provinces there is a three month eligibility waiting period before cover starts. My guess is that perhaps all TWP (Temporary Work Permit) applicants in Ontario might be eligible for free healthcare, and thus this waiting period is there to stop people from simply coming over, getting treatment for something right away and possibly buggering off.
What to do for that three months? Get medical insurance. It seems places do allow for short term medical cover, maybe six months.
If the UK implemented just this waiting period (maybe they do, I don't know) then that would possibly be a start, if only to stop people coming in to simply take advantage of the free healthcare from day one.
I'm a xenophobe and a racist
I don't like anyone
One other point about the system is that in Ontario and three other provinces there is a three month eligibility waiting period before cover starts. My guess is that perhaps all TWP (Temporary Work Permit) applicants in Ontario might be eligible for free healthcare, and thus this waiting period is there to stop people from simply coming over, getting treatment for something right away and possibly buggering off.
What to do for that three months? Get medical insurance. It seems places do allow for short term medical cover, maybe six months.
If the UK implemented just this waiting period (maybe they do, I don't know) then that would possibly be a start, if only to stop people coming in to simply take advantage of the free healthcare from day one.
I'm a xenophobe and a racist
I don't like anyone
Last edited by Markus; 23 October 2009 at 03:35 PM.