BNP to get their say on Question time!
23 October 2009, 10:03 AM
#271
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Until then we have no debate on things which is why the BNP get votes. And as for publicity, what was the quote? 'There's no such thing as bad publicity'? I got the newspaper this morning and EVERY national rag had last night's QT on the front page. The guy must be loving it!
The old interweb is full of the same sorts of discussions we're having here - see Guido at Told You So - Guy Fawkes' blog - the comments mirror what is being said here.
And the most pertinent paragraph summing up the whole political system at present comes from EU Referendum: Appalling bad judgement
"... My sympathies were and remain with those who feel so alienated from the mainstream political system that they feel impelled to support the party. And that, it seems, is precisely what the political classes cannot deal with. Thus, with their own vacuity exposed, they turn upon the unlikely "boy" who dares remark that the emperor is abroad without his expected attire. ..."
Ain't that the truth!
Dave
23 October 2009, 11:09 AM
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I find it not a little ironic for SN, which has many times shown it's disdain for Christianity and belief in Jesus, to support Nick Griffins view in Islam threatening this great Christian country we live in!
As Bonnie pointed out last night, there is no indigenous UK population, the closest there is were the Neaderthals, who are now extinct, so we are all immigrants.
Also, up until about 400 A.D., Christianity was unheard of in these isles, so for most of the period that humans have been here, the religion was not Christianity either. I'm sure alot of the same things being flung about by NG and his idiot cronies were said by the people during the Roman invasion, the conversion from Paganism to christianity, the Angles, the Saxons, the Danes, the Normans.
The UK is, perhaps, the ulitmate expression of humanity mixing, in language, culture and tradition. Whether you think that is a good thing or not is another matter. But, if you do not, remember that the UK you yearn for is still the product of the same process you fight against now. It is utter hypocrisy and stupidity.
NG and the BNP are just a bunch of unpleasant, racist bigots, and anyone who votes for them, or even agrees with some of their rantings should be thoroughly ashamed.
Geezer
As Bonnie pointed out last night, there is no indigenous UK population, the closest there is were the Neaderthals, who are now extinct, so we are all immigrants.
Also, up until about 400 A.D., Christianity was unheard of in these isles, so for most of the period that humans have been here, the religion was not Christianity either. I'm sure alot of the same things being flung about by NG and his idiot cronies were said by the people during the Roman invasion, the conversion from Paganism to christianity, the Angles, the Saxons, the Danes, the Normans.
The UK is, perhaps, the ulitmate expression of humanity mixing, in language, culture and tradition. Whether you think that is a good thing or not is another matter. But, if you do not, remember that the UK you yearn for is still the product of the same process you fight against now. It is utter hypocrisy and stupidity.
NG and the BNP are just a bunch of unpleasant, racist bigots, and anyone who votes for them, or even agrees with some of their rantings should be thoroughly ashamed.
Geezer
23 October 2009, 11:17 AM
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Sorry Geezer but asking me to bear in mind things which were relevant over 1,500 years ago is just ridiculous. Yes we're a product of a lot of influences, but only very recently have the non-Caucasian non-Christian influences been so apparent. Ask any foreigner (ha!) - "British" means **** all these days. And i'm unapologetic in finding that a very sad state of affairs.
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23 October 2009, 11:28 AM
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I think you'll find that the influence of immigrants in recent years, or indeed the past 100 years haven't been anything like they were in the instances I mentioned. They literally changed everything. Certainly in the case of Romans and Normans, the "indigenous" population became second, or even third class citizens!
Despite propaganda, Asians, Black, eastern Europeans are still very much a minority in this country. Even with projections, they will remain to be a minority long after you are dead.
I thought it was quite an asute move on the BBC's part to allow Griffin on Question Time. It showed him up for the idiot he is. Utterly unable to give a straight answer (and not just because of the barracking). His turnarounds without explanation just dug him deeper into a hole. It's only shame that he wasn't asked questions on other facets of BNP policy on things like health, the economy etc. It would been even more apparent then that this mad and his party have nothing to offer other than racism.
Geezer
Despite propaganda, Asians, Black, eastern Europeans are still very much a minority in this country. Even with projections, they will remain to be a minority long after you are dead.
I thought it was quite an asute move on the BBC's part to allow Griffin on Question Time. It showed him up for the idiot he is. Utterly unable to give a straight answer (and not just because of the barracking). His turnarounds without explanation just dug him deeper into a hole. It's only shame that he wasn't asked questions on other facets of BNP policy on things like health, the economy etc. It would been even more apparent then that this mad and his party have nothing to offer other than racism.
Geezer
23 October 2009, 11:33 AM
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when i watched QT last night i found jack straw came off the worst in my eyes as he just seemed to be a slimey bloke who had nothing to add to the debate, just personal attacks on NG.
i agreed with griffin about people coming to our country have to accept our views and not preach to this country, especially about the koran and sharia lawand i also agreed with him on the subject of not teaching primary school children about sex. also agreed that gay sex should not be taught to school children, i'm not a homophobe but i do believe that a child finds it hard enough to live a childhood without having more things too confuse them.
personally i believe he done quite well considering that the bbc is labours real spin doctor and having nearly all the crowd against him and feel they should get him back on there back in somewhere like bradford where he will get a chance to speak.
i agreed with griffin about people coming to our country have to accept our views and not preach to this country, especially about the koran and sharia lawand i also agreed with him on the subject of not teaching primary school children about sex. also agreed that gay sex should not be taught to school children, i'm not a homophobe but i do believe that a child finds it hard enough to live a childhood without having more things too confuse them.
personally i believe he done quite well considering that the bbc is labours real spin doctor and having nearly all the crowd against him and feel they should get him back on there back in somewhere like bradford where he will get a chance to speak.
23 October 2009, 11:42 AM
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Oh i agree, Geezer, nobody could argue that they have coherent policies. But then they don't need to have, because they know that in all likelihood they're only ever going to be a minority, protest vote. What irritates me though, is that the British population are sold this "we're SUCH a better country" as a result of all the immigration in the last 20 years, whereas in fact, there's very real, deep-seated resentment and discomfort out there about what this country has become. When is that ever going to be properly recognised, let alone addressed? Never, by the looks of the way the media handled events like yesterday.
23 October 2009, 11:50 AM
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What irritates me though, is that the British population are sold this "we're SUCH a better country" as a result of all the immigration in the last 20 years, whereas in fact, there's very real, deep-seated resentment and discomfort out there about what this country has become. When is that ever going to be properly recognised, let alone addressed? Never, by the looks of the way the media handled events like yesterday.
There is resent,ent, but almost entirely without foundation. For example, one of the real problems with this country is the benefits system and the way that a not inconsiderable portion of the population has simply given up as it is not economical to work. How, the media would have us believe that immigrants just come over here for our benfefits, but in reality the worst excesses of benefit abuse is by the incumbent population! The base, white, Christian people who NG seems to hold so dear.
I was in London the other week, and everywhere I went, all the low paid jobs were done by foreigners. Now, this deosnt' mean that they are 'nicking our jobs' but it means that they are prepared to work. They come from a country where work is seen as a privelege. They can fill these jobs because the lazy Brits would rather sit at home claiming a similar amount of benefit!
I'm not saying that the government shouldn't tackle immigration, if only to assuage people's fears and for simple numbers, but the immigrants are not really the problem here.
Geezer
23 October 2009, 11:55 AM
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Seems far more likely you don't want to find them yourself if you ask me - might spoil your wonderful view of your beloved BNP.
23 October 2009, 12:00 PM
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I was in London the other week, and everywhere I went, all the low paid jobs were done by foreigners. Now, this deosnt' mean that they are 'nicking our jobs' but it means that they are prepared to work. They come from a country where work is seen as a privelege. They can fill these jobs because the lazy Brits would rather sit at home claiming a similar amount of benefit! Geezer
Why should it be OK for this country to take in anyone and let them work in any job? This I am totally against and why immigration has run out of control because Labour have let in all comers. This is also to blame on the EU and the fact Poles and any other member states can just up and leave their own country and pile into the UK when ever they like.
23 October 2009, 12:01 PM
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Again, i take your points, Geezer. Blind racism is ignorant. For me personally i have no problem with the colour of the person, as long as i don't feel that the lifestyle of their originating country is being imported lock stock and barrel into the UK along with them. It's the dilution of the British national identity that i really struggle with.
23 October 2009, 12:05 PM
#283
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Talk about jumping on a bandwagon with the abuse directed at Nick Griffin last night! Very easy to take the spotlight off yourself when all the emphasis is on the BNP. Very transparent as always, and Jack Straw is a tw*t.
I'm not a BNP supporter but I understand what he was meaning by the "indigenous" population...only an idiot wouldn't understand that. About 90% of the people on question time last night were namby pamby Daily Mail reading pussies! No wonder the country is in the state it's in with people like that getting all the limelight.
The whole show resembled a scene from primary school, with all the other kids putting down the unpopular one to look cool, with their views so unconvincing they were laughable.
Like it or not, the BNP is winning support now and people do not want these immigrants flooding in. I would just be happy with a Britain where everyone is equal, not where homosexuals, muslims etc are given some sort of priority over everyone else. Take the example of abu hamburger, or whatever his name was. Look how mild the BNP are in comparison, and look how much stick Nick Griffen was given last night on question time. Muslim extremists who believe they are right in blowing up people from the west get less flack. Lol it really is ridiculous. Talk about double standards.
This totally limp wristed attitude(no offence to homosexuals) is present in UK politics now and it needs to change.
I'm not a BNP supporter but I understand what he was meaning by the "indigenous" population...only an idiot wouldn't understand that. About 90% of the people on question time last night were namby pamby Daily Mail reading pussies! No wonder the country is in the state it's in with people like that getting all the limelight.
The whole show resembled a scene from primary school, with all the other kids putting down the unpopular one to look cool, with their views so unconvincing they were laughable.
Like it or not, the BNP is winning support now and people do not want these immigrants flooding in. I would just be happy with a Britain where everyone is equal, not where homosexuals, muslims etc are given some sort of priority over everyone else. Take the example of abu hamburger, or whatever his name was. Look how mild the BNP are in comparison, and look how much stick Nick Griffen was given last night on question time. Muslim extremists who believe they are right in blowing up people from the west get less flack. Lol it really is ridiculous. Talk about double standards.
This totally limp wristed attitude(no offence to homosexuals) is present in UK politics now and it needs to change.
23 October 2009, 12:09 PM
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i have nothing against gay marriage i believe they also have the right to be Miserable too lol
in regards to uk been a christian country not sure about that one i didnt know the bible alowed gay marriages, gambaling and sex before marriage. im not a saint as i have to admit i do place the odd bet here and there and i certainly had sex before marriage.
the audiance last night were against NG which was very biased from the bbc i do agree with certain ponts that he made about the immigration and our troops that we pay there wages are fighting in irag, afghnistan and soon to be fighting against iran.
but i think he has the whole muslim thing wrong i thought he would know better after chilling with Kadafi. i got to a lot masjids and no one ever talks about turning britan in to a muslim state. thats something that some nutter has said and now a lot of people think muslims want to change britan THAT AINT TRUE! i also believe a lot of NG supporters are ignorant not all but most.
mustafa
in regards to uk been a christian country not sure about that one i didnt know the bible alowed gay marriages, gambaling and sex before marriage. im not a saint as i have to admit i do place the odd bet here and there and i certainly had sex before marriage.
the audiance last night were against NG which was very biased from the bbc i do agree with certain ponts that he made about the immigration and our troops that we pay there wages are fighting in irag, afghnistan and soon to be fighting against iran.
but i think he has the whole muslim thing wrong i thought he would know better after chilling with Kadafi. i got to a lot masjids and no one ever talks about turning britan in to a muslim state. thats something that some nutter has said and now a lot of people think muslims want to change britan THAT AINT TRUE! i also believe a lot of NG supporters are ignorant not all but most.
mustafa
23 October 2009, 12:13 PM
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Mustafa. Question for you. The women who walk around with the pillar-box veils on. You know the ones. Covered head to toe except for their eyes.
Why are they in the UK if their beliefs are obviously so rigidly Islamic? Why not go and live in an Islam country? What does the UK offer that their home countries do not?
Why are they in the UK if their beliefs are obviously so rigidly Islamic? Why not go and live in an Islam country? What does the UK offer that their home countries do not?
23 October 2009, 12:14 PM
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Why do you find that ok that foreigners have come here and are doing these low paid jobs? They shouldn't be here full stop if we had a points system in place that only let in those that had a skill set that benefited the country like Australia, USA or Canada for example.
23 October 2009, 12:14 PM
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Why do you find that ok that foreigners have come here and are doing these low paid jobs? They shouldn't be here full stop if we had a points system in place that only let in those that had a skill set that benefited the country like Australia, USA or Canada for example.
The low paid jobs should not be filled with foreigners who are willing to work for peanuts. Those jobs should be filled with the benefit scroungers who are able to work but choose not to. If the jobs weren't filled with foreigners then there might be more of a push to get the dole scroungers back in to work.
Why should it be OK for this country to take in anyone and let them work in any job? This I am totally against and why immigration has run out of control because Labour have let in all comers. This is also to blame on the EU and the fact Poles and any other member states can just up and leave their own country and pile into the UK when ever they like.
You also neglect to mention that the number of eastern Europeans is actually reducing, as they are returning back to their countries of origin in greater numbers than they are coming over at present due to the lack of work. That hardly fits in with the state of affairs presented by the BNP.
Are you actually a member of the BNP? I have the list of members here in front of me....................
Geezer
23 October 2009, 12:17 PM
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Mustafa. Question for you. The women who walk around with the pillar-box veils on. You know the ones. Covered head to toe except for their eyes.
Why are they in the UK if their beliefs are obviously so rigidly Islamic? Why not go and live in an Islam country? What does the UK offer that their home countries do not?
Why are they in the UK if their beliefs are obviously so rigidly Islamic? Why not go and live in an Islam country? What does the UK offer that their home countries do not?
23 October 2009, 12:18 PM
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Well i'm sort of hoping there's more to it than that, Mr Kiss. Because if there isn't, who can blame those who would rather see them on the first plane back to Saudi Arabia or wherever?
23 October 2009, 12:21 PM
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I hate to sound like i'm standing up for Nick Griffin as i think he's a dick but why are other politicians allowed to forget about their past yet he isn't allowed too? Or are you only allowed to forget about your shadey past if it benefits the mainstream parties?
Over here in Northern Ireland we have two murderous Republician terrorists in power, yet you daren't mention that as its all in the past! Now for all Nick Griffins sins i doubt he's had people murdered, especially not British people.
Over here in Northern Ireland we have two murderous Republician terrorists in power, yet you daren't mention that as its all in the past! Now for all Nick Griffins sins i doubt he's had people murdered, especially not British people.
23 October 2009, 12:29 PM
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I hate to sound like i'm standing up for Nick Griffin as i think he's a dick but why are other politicians allowed to forget about their past yet he isn't allowed too? Or are you only allowed to forget about your shadey past if it benefits the mainstream parties?
Over here in Northern Ireland we have two murderous Republician terrorists in power, yet you daren't mention that as its all in the past! Now for all Nick Griffins sins i doubt he's had people murdered, especially not British people.
Over here in Northern Ireland we have two murderous Republician terrorists in power, yet you daren't mention that as its all in the past! Now for all Nick Griffins sins i doubt he's had people murdered, especially not British people.
Dave
23 October 2009, 12:33 PM
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Mustafa. Question for you. The women who walk around with the pillar-box veils on. You know the ones. Covered head to toe except for their eyes.
Why are they in the UK if their beliefs are obviously so rigidly Islamic? Why not go and live in an Islam country? What does the UK offer that their home countries do not?
Why are they in the UK if their beliefs are obviously so rigidly Islamic? Why not go and live in an Islam country? What does the UK offer that their home countries do not?
i cant answer for all them its like stamford hill all the jews wear hats and have curly side burns and dont allow anyone to buy in to that area and they dont mix with anyone. i guess the only explination is the u.k has more opportunities. every one is free to believe what they want just cause they dress diffrently doesnt make them bad people its there choice i guess. its all about choce im against dog fighting and fox hunting thats my choice does that make me a bad person.
mus
23 October 2009, 12:34 PM
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@Geezer
No I am not and I detest their views. My views above aren't based on racial hatred thanks but the fact this country lets in just about anyone who tries to get here.
As I clearly pointed out above I have no issue with immigration if it based on a points system that only lets in those who want to work with skills that are in short supply and in high demand.
Unemployment is massive at the moment and if there weren't so many foreigners working here perhaps the unemployment figures wouldn't be so high.
Signing the EU agreement allowing such immigration in my opinion (which I am entitled to and does not make me a BNP voter) was wrong. Living in Kent and having a lot of the Eastern European immigrants drive to this country and therefore come through Dover I see a hell of a lot Eastern European people locally to where I live. For example I don't like going into a supermarket and find i'm having to push through hoards of Polish shoppers all speaking Polish who seem to want to do their shopping en masse. How many of their cars sitting out in the car park are legally taxed and insured here and have valid MOT's? How many of them have contributed to years of tax and NI to pay for the local services they are freely using such as the NHS or education? Services that I have paid for yet they are getting for free and having a negative impact of the stretching of such services. Perhaps take away their free use of dr's and hospitals and the waiting lists will drop. I'm afraid I see them as nothing but free loaders who are using services that have been paid for by the tax payer. I don't pay tax for it to provide local services to people who have come from another country and contributed nothing to the system.
No I am not and I detest their views. My views above aren't based on racial hatred thanks but the fact this country lets in just about anyone who tries to get here.
As I clearly pointed out above I have no issue with immigration if it based on a points system that only lets in those who want to work with skills that are in short supply and in high demand.
Unemployment is massive at the moment and if there weren't so many foreigners working here perhaps the unemployment figures wouldn't be so high.
Signing the EU agreement allowing such immigration in my opinion (which I am entitled to and does not make me a BNP voter) was wrong. Living in Kent and having a lot of the Eastern European immigrants drive to this country and therefore come through Dover I see a hell of a lot Eastern European people locally to where I live. For example I don't like going into a supermarket and find i'm having to push through hoards of Polish shoppers all speaking Polish who seem to want to do their shopping en masse. How many of their cars sitting out in the car park are legally taxed and insured here and have valid MOT's? How many of them have contributed to years of tax and NI to pay for the local services they are freely using such as the NHS or education? Services that I have paid for yet they are getting for free and having a negative impact of the stretching of such services. Perhaps take away their free use of dr's and hospitals and the waiting lists will drop. I'm afraid I see them as nothing but free loaders who are using services that have been paid for by the tax payer. I don't pay tax for it to provide local services to people who have come from another country and contributed nothing to the system.
23 October 2009, 12:38 PM
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I'm no BNP fan but he made 3 good points last night
1. Leave the middle east to run its own affairs
2. Shut the borders, we're full.
3. Anyone coming here, live like we do (or did) - See Australia for a good example of how this works
As already said, when a mainstream party adopts these points it will wipe the floor with the competition
1. Leave the middle east to run its own affairs
2. Shut the borders, we're full.
3. Anyone coming here, live like we do (or did) - See Australia for a good example of how this works
As already said, when a mainstream party adopts these points it will wipe the floor with the competition
23 October 2009, 12:40 PM
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Regardless of most people's view of the BNP and their unpleasant policies which have been demonstrated in the past, it would have been wrong to prevent him from appearing on QT. To suppress his party would have been a crime against free speech and it would have been an indication of the future police state mentality which threatens us all.
He was clever enough to sidestep those offensive policies but the electorate really are not so stupid that they cannot see through it all.
There are policies of theirs nevertheless which are sensible with regard to what has happened to this country over the last 12 years or so. The others are too frightened of the PC Plonkers to state them!
An awful lot of people and much of the media is trying to make capital out of the programme by making a big fuss about nothing-as ever of course!
The worst performance by far was that of Straw who dithered and laid on the slime-in spades! and who was totally lost when it came to a meaningful defence of uncontrolled immigration as practised by his party.
I thought the black woman sitting next to Griffin was very impressive in most respects. But then she is not a politician!
Les
He was clever enough to sidestep those offensive policies but the electorate really are not so stupid that they cannot see through it all.
There are policies of theirs nevertheless which are sensible with regard to what has happened to this country over the last 12 years or so. The others are too frightened of the PC Plonkers to state them!
An awful lot of people and much of the media is trying to make capital out of the programme by making a big fuss about nothing-as ever of course!
The worst performance by far was that of Straw who dithered and laid on the slime-in spades! and who was totally lost when it came to a meaningful defence of uncontrolled immigration as practised by his party.
I thought the black woman sitting next to Griffin was very impressive in most respects. But then she is not a politician!
Les
23 October 2009, 12:41 PM
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Saw an ex-editor (or producer or summat) of QT on Sky news just now. He was saying that a) the BBC was not biased and actually bent over backwards to accommodate Griffin when they didn't have to based on the low vote they have (in % terms) and b) that the so-called audience was completely representative of the population (actually he said of 'London' - which is NOT representative of the country as a whole).
What got me was the arrogance of the t055er in assuming that he knew what the country *as a whole* thought. The Beeb ought to be next against the wall after the Government!
Dave
What got me was the arrogance of the t055er in assuming that he knew what the country *as a whole* thought. The Beeb ought to be next against the wall after the Government!
Dave
23 October 2009, 12:44 PM
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i cant answer for all them its like stamford hill all the jews wear hats and have curly side burns and dont allow anyone to buy in to that area and they dont mix with anyone. i guess the only explination is the u.k has more opportunities. every one is free to believe what they want just cause they dress diffrently doesnt make them bad people its there choice i guess. its all about choce im against dog fighting and fox hunting thats my choice does that make me a bad person.
mus
mus
23 October 2009, 12:46 PM
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mamoon i agree with some of the points but using Australia isnt a good idea they have butcherd and stripped the Aborigines of there land.
they should of put a muslim scholar in there yesterday now that would of spiced up things abit lol
they should of put a muslim scholar in there yesterday now that would of spiced up things abit lol
23 October 2009, 12:58 PM
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Opportunities? Like what? Can you be specific? Financial opportunities to live off the British welfare state you mean? What does opportunities mean? Are there no opportunities in Saudia Arabia then? After all, they're Muslims, and that's an Islamic country, surely there are lots of opportunities there too? Please explain?
its funny you say that i was born in Saudi and my family wont from there however, i have been here since 1990 i went to school here didnt go to uni and i have been working paying my taxes so not every muslim lives on welfare maybe you should take a drive to liverpool and see who is quing up out side the job centers not saying that no muslims claims benfits millions of them do and im clearly not saying that all muslims are saints you will get scum in every colture, i just dont like when people generalize not saying that you are but a lot of people do. have a walk through edgeware road or even green lanes and you will see how many ethnic business are there pumping money in to the system.
the reason i left saudi i dont know i guess to get better education my two older brother have a degree and and my sister also has a degree and there all working here paying there taxes with no problems.
would i live in Saudi the simple answer is no because i have adjusted to life here i bought a house in here, i met my wife here and i was married here i have lots of friends here. i love some many things about the uk match of the day for example taking a long drive to watch liverpool play footie driving my scooby lol does that make sense?
mustafa