Gym membership
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From: Zed Ess Won Hay Tee
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From: Somewhere in Kent, sniffing some V-Power
Not FFirst but Reynolds. I do realise that the contract tied us in for the year, but, we could never get parked and had to wait for a machine most of the time.
The mrs doesn't use it anymore, I only joined so that we could go to the gym together. Now, I'm more into my road running, so I really don't see the point of paying for the gym.
Yes, I realise a contract is a contract, but we were just asked to sign a headed letter and at no point were we offered a copy of the t&c's. So in my eyes, I should be able to cancel because of this.
The mrs doesn't use it anymore, I only joined so that we could go to the gym together. Now, I'm more into my road running, so I really don't see the point of paying for the gym.
Yes, I realise a contract is a contract, but we were just asked to sign a headed letter and at no point were we offered a copy of the t&c's. So in my eyes, I should be able to cancel because of this.
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What you need to know is all on page 1, you and your sidekick can read it and weep.
What is tragic is you claim you were a bailiff for 4 years, without ever realising you were never actually a bailiff, just a debt collector with no legal powers at all, this is quite clear from your posting.
Unless of course you can post your CCC ID, which as you will know is not personally traceable, so I can check because I am not going to give you the benefit of doubt.
What is tragic is you claim you were a bailiff for 4 years, without ever realising you were never actually a bailiff, just a debt collector with no legal powers at all, this is quite clear from your posting.
Unless of course you can post your CCC ID, which as you will know is not personally traceable, so I can check because I am not going to give you the benefit of doubt.
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From: LIVERPOOL THE CENTRE OF EXCELLENCE
For those interested, (for those who are not dont read on) I have had a rummage around, basic bill I had.
3 direct debits taken by leisure company at £80 per month for the three months used, then direct debit cancelled, and gym not used.
Gym then informed intention to terminate my half of contract, with given reasons.
Then billed for 11 x £80 per month outstanding, why 11 I dont know.
2 X Phone calls @ £25 each, unanswered by me.
3 x letters @ £40 each, of which I recieved only 2.
and a knock @ £85 from a man calling himself a bailiff (bear in mind he may or may not have been a bailiff, he may have been a hired hand or debt collection officer, or even a milkman, I didnt go into his history as he didnt stay long) he was acting on the behalf of a debt recovery agency who paid his wages, who where inturn were acting upon an early intervention scheme set up by the leisure company to reclaim their losses.
Admin charges of £50 which I thought would have been encompassed by the above bill.
So £1230 to pay for a gym I couldnt use, that didnt keep its equipment/facilities running, and didnt honour its side of the contract.
And certain people are thinking I should have payed it off as I had signed a contract.
Dont think so.
3 direct debits taken by leisure company at £80 per month for the three months used, then direct debit cancelled, and gym not used.
Gym then informed intention to terminate my half of contract, with given reasons.
Then billed for 11 x £80 per month outstanding, why 11 I dont know.
2 X Phone calls @ £25 each, unanswered by me.
3 x letters @ £40 each, of which I recieved only 2.
and a knock @ £85 from a man calling himself a bailiff (bear in mind he may or may not have been a bailiff, he may have been a hired hand or debt collection officer, or even a milkman, I didnt go into his history as he didnt stay long) he was acting on the behalf of a debt recovery agency who paid his wages, who where inturn were acting upon an early intervention scheme set up by the leisure company to reclaim their losses.
Admin charges of £50 which I thought would have been encompassed by the above bill.
So £1230 to pay for a gym I couldnt use, that didnt keep its equipment/facilities running, and didnt honour its side of the contract.
And certain people are thinking I should have payed it off as I had signed a contract.
Dont think so.
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A company can not charge you for phone. letters or admin charges, if that was the case the customer could charge them double, there letters cost £20 yours cost £40, it doesn't even matter if it says this in the/your contract because it goes against ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR) among many others.
If the 'bailiff' claimed he was such or you have this written in any letters from them, then they have committed a criminal offence because it is a false representation and excessive fee entitlement and is contrary to Section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006, you would be awarded damages in the x000s for this.
This is what places like this do all the time though, keep increasing the amount of the balance for no legal reason hoping the 'customer' will think ****! best just pay this now before it goes any higher because if companies did take it before a magistrate will always award damages to the defendant for there reckless and illegal actions.
If the 'bailiff' claimed he was such or you have this written in any letters from them, then they have committed a criminal offence because it is a false representation and excessive fee entitlement and is contrary to Section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006, you would be awarded damages in the x000s for this.
This is what places like this do all the time though, keep increasing the amount of the balance for no legal reason hoping the 'customer' will think ****! best just pay this now before it goes any higher because if companies did take it before a magistrate will always award damages to the defendant for there reckless and illegal actions.
A company can not charge you for phone. letters or admin charges, if that was the case the customer could charge them double, there letters cost £20 yours cost £40, it doesn't even matter if it says this in the/your contract because it goes against ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR) among many others.
If the 'bailiff' claimed he was such or you have this written in any letters from them, then they have committed a criminal offence because it is a false representation and excessive fee entitlement and is contrary to Section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006, you would be awarded damages in the x000s for this.
This is what places like this do all the time though, keep increasing the amount of the balance for no legal reason hoping the 'customer' will think ****! best just pay this now before it goes any higher because if companies did take it before a magistrate will always award damages to the defendant for there reckless and illegal actions.
If the 'bailiff' claimed he was such or you have this written in any letters from them, then they have committed a criminal offence because it is a false representation and excessive fee entitlement and is contrary to Section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006, you would be awarded damages in the x000s for this.
This is what places like this do all the time though, keep increasing the amount of the balance for no legal reason hoping the 'customer' will think ****! best just pay this now before it goes any higher because if companies did take it before a magistrate will always award damages to the defendant for there reckless and illegal actions.
I'm interested in what you have said in aprticular about admin charges. Had letters/statement breakdowns of what the companies are charging me for letters, phonecalls etc. And if by law (as you suggest - I don't want to believe until I have proof) this is illegal, how can solicotors of collection compnaies get away with it. Say (hypothetically) theres 1,000,000 cases of default in the country (total guess), and said debt companies buy the bad dept and have their solicitors send out nasty letters. Said letters or phonecalls have admin charges of £20-30-40 a pop. How can these companies be acting illegally 1000s and 1000s of times without consequence or a governing body repremanding them. thats what I don't understand about your comments.
P.S. Chris, hope you get it sorted, I won't offer any advice as I know nothing about these sitautions in particular
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I will keep it in the public domain purely for transparency reasons.
There are strict measures about when and what a default notice must contain, also remember when served one you have 14 days to remedy the arrears, if you do so in that time scale, no default is registered with the CRA (credit reference agency's)
This is taken from the OFT Guide
Obviously, this is assuming that you do not dispute any/all of the balance in question as a default, in respect of disputed sums is against the Banking Code of practice. Para.13.6 of the Code says
This also assumes that you have give them permission to process your data, if not they have committed a criminal offence under s.35 Data Protection Act 1998, as there is no legislation that allows a company to collate, process or distribute any other information unless there is express written permission from the data subject. You find this out by requesting your Consumer Credit Agreement.
'Fees' which applied to accounts in relation to late payments, Admin costs etc are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and newly brought Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (SI 1999 No 2083) which specifily state that terms which have not been individually negotiated in a consumer contract are unfair and non-binding on the consumer. Partly relating to an imbalance in the rights and obligations of the two parties which leaves the consumer far worse off. Note, this is specify relating to financial institutions.
It was considered to be unfair by the OFT who reported this on the 5th April 2006 and are therefore presumed to be unlawful in the absence of specific proof to the contrary, there is a test case going on at the minute against the banks.
The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations
The Office of Fair Trading: What is an unfair term?
Also note
http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/bus...dit/oft664.pdf
To find out what they hold on oneself, a letter like the following suffices.
All debt collection agency's are now bound by the CSA's guidelines.
The reason they can disregard the laws like they do? Well according to the Martin Lewis program that was on last year is sheer numbers of collection agency's, the fact the authorities can only act when sufficient number of complaints have been received and lack of consumer knowledge.
Not one person is accountable and when the relevant authorities do get involved the company quickly goes insolvent and starts under a new name.
It needs looking at. HTH
This is taken from the OFT Guide
Default notice – form and content
The following information must be contained in the default notice:
i a description of the agreement sufficient to identify it.
ii the name and a postal address of the trader.
iii the name and a postal address of the customer.
iv a statement that the notice is a default notice served under section 81(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.
v details of the part or parts of the agreement which, according to the trader, the customer has breached.
vi details of the nature of the alleged breach of the agreement specifying clearly the matters complained of.
vii if it is possible for the customer to put the matter right, details of what he is required to do in order to achieve this, and the date before which he is required to do so. This date must be at least 14 days after the date of service of the notice, or
viii if it is not possible to put the matter right (for example, where goods have been damaged beyond repair), details of the amount (if any) required to be paid as compensation and the date before which it should be paid. This date must be at least fourteen days after the date of service of the notice.
Where any action is required under vii or viii above, the following statement must appear immediately after:
The following information must be contained in the default notice:
i a description of the agreement sufficient to identify it.
ii the name and a postal address of the trader.
iii the name and a postal address of the customer.
iv a statement that the notice is a default notice served under section 81(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.
v details of the part or parts of the agreement which, according to the trader, the customer has breached.
vi details of the nature of the alleged breach of the agreement specifying clearly the matters complained of.
vii if it is possible for the customer to put the matter right, details of what he is required to do in order to achieve this, and the date before which he is required to do so. This date must be at least 14 days after the date of service of the notice, or
viii if it is not possible to put the matter right (for example, where goods have been damaged beyond repair), details of the amount (if any) required to be paid as compensation and the date before which it should be paid. This date must be at least fourteen days after the date of service of the notice.
Where any action is required under vii or viii above, the following statement must appear immediately after:
IF THE ACTION REQUIRED BY THIS NOTICE IS TAKEN BEFORE THE DATE SHOWN NO FURTHER ENFORCEMENT ACTION WILL BE TAKEN IN RESPECT OF THE BREACH.
The following statement must appear immediately before the specification of the action to be taken by the trader:IF YOU DO NOT TAKE THE ACTION REQUIRED BY THIS NOTICE BEFORE THE DATE SHOWN THEN THE FURTHER ACTION SET OUT BELOW MAY BE TAKEN AGAINST YOU
13.6 We may give information to credit reference agencies
about the personal debts you owe us if:
-you have fallen behind with your payments;
-the amount owed is not in dispute; and
-you have not made proposals we are satisfied with
for repaying your debt, following our formal demand
about the personal debts you owe us if:
-you have fallen behind with your payments;
-the amount owed is not in dispute; and
-you have not made proposals we are satisfied with
for repaying your debt, following our formal demand
I'm interested in what you have said in aprticular about admin charges. Had letters/statement breakdowns of what the companies are charging me for letters, phonecalls etc. And if by law (as you suggest - I don't want to believe until I have proof) this is illegal, how can solicotors of collection compnaies get away with it. How can these companies be acting illegally 1000s and 1000s of times without consequence or a governing body repremanding them.
'Fees' which applied to accounts in relation to late payments, Admin costs etc are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and newly brought Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (SI 1999 No 2083) which specifily state that terms which have not been individually negotiated in a consumer contract are unfair and non-binding on the consumer. Partly relating to an imbalance in the rights and obligations of the two parties which leaves the consumer far worse off. Note, this is specify relating to financial institutions.
It was considered to be unfair by the OFT who reported this on the 5th April 2006 and are therefore presumed to be unlawful in the absence of specific proof to the contrary, there is a test case going on at the minute against the banks.
The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations
The Office of Fair Trading: What is an unfair term?
Also note
http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/bus...dit/oft664.pdf
Charging for debt collection
2.9 Charges should not be levied unfairly.
2.10 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:
2.9 Charges should not be levied unfairly.
2.10 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:
s.7 DATA PROTECTION ACT 1998 – DATA SUBJECT ACCESS REQUEST
I request that *Bank* provides me with all details held regarding my accounts, including, but not exclusively as I require access to all information relating to me as a Data Subject under the Data Protection Act;
Please note that this is not an exclusive list, as I require access to all information held by *Bank* regarding me, as a Data Subject under the Data Protection Act.
I understand that *Bank* is obliged to provide this information under the Data Protection Act 1998. I have enclosed a cheque for £10 to cover the statutory fee that can be charged for this service.
I look forward to hearing from you within 40 days from the date of this letter and before [enter date of 40th day after receipt here], in any event .
I request that *Bank* provides me with all details held regarding my accounts, including, but not exclusively as I require access to all information relating to me as a Data Subject under the Data Protection Act;
Please note that this is not an exclusive list, as I require access to all information held by *Bank* regarding me, as a Data Subject under the Data Protection Act.
I understand that *Bank* is obliged to provide this information under the Data Protection Act 1998. I have enclosed a cheque for £10 to cover the statutory fee that can be charged for this service.
I look forward to hearing from you within 40 days from the date of this letter and before [enter date of 40th day after receipt here], in any event .
CSA Codes of conduct Debt Collection & Default Guidelines
In attempting to carry out collection in default of payment, members of the Association should:
In attempting to carry out collection in default of payment, members of the Association should:
Not one person is accountable and when the relevant authorities do get involved the company quickly goes insolvent and starts under a new name.
It needs looking at. HTH
Thats quite insightful. Maybe when it comes to me personally recieving threatening letters, I'll print off some of the above information and prepare myself better then.
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