Stef

Hello peeps.
This thread is posted in response to all the rumours that have been circulating on the bbs since the Dono event.
I hope it will clarify the matter once and for all.


The SIDC (Subaru Impreza Drivers Club) was formed so that people who either owned, drove or had an interest in Imprezas could meet fellow Scooby enthusiasts. As membership has grown, so too have the benefits. These now include the full-colour quarterly newsletter; 'True Grip', discounts at numerous dealers and the opportunity to partake in club meets, trips and track days.
It is this last benefit, track days, which has seen the number of non-Scooby owning members rise dramatically, as people are discovering that the club offers well organised events that represent superb value for money. Not only are most events run with an open pit-lane giving maximum track time, but they also offer services like the Track Support Unit, something no other organisation offers.
As I have already said, the club is also there for people that perhaps aspire to one day owning an Impreza or who simply love the car and will perhaps never own one. The club has never objected to allowing these people to join, nor would we.
However, this year the club has seen a huge increase in the demand for membership from people who want to join the club purely for doing track days. I have been getting at least one request a day from someone who wishes to join, just so that they can take their car to our track events. If allowed to continue, this could obviously cause problems in the future when it's possible that Subaru owning members have to miss out on an event because so many non-Subaru owning members have taken the places on track. The club wants to 'nip it in the bud' before it becomes a major problem.

Therefore, this is what will happen in the future....

When a track event is announced, priority will be given to SIDC members who wish to take their Subaru on the track.
Secondary consideration will be given to SIDC members that have other track cars. These members can put their name down immediately onto a reserve list, and the places will be allocated on a first-come, first-served basis. The time scale for allocation of these places has not been finalised, and may vary from event to event. Most events would not be filled by Subaru's at present, so it is unlikely these members would miss out.
If places are still available, these will be given to non-SIDC members that have an affiliation with another car club.

So, the bottom line is that nothing will probably change from how it is now, except the fact that Subaru driving members will get prioriy. I don't believe that anyone with any sense can honestly argue with that.
If they do, then the club will gladly refund any membership fees paid.
The only current exception to this rule is events held at Brands Hatch Leisure Group (BHLG) circuits. BHLG have informed the club that if we wish to use their facilities for future track days, only Subaru's will be allowed on track. We are still discussing this with BHLG, but if anyone wants to moan about that as well, can I please ask you to direct your moaning at BHLG and not the SIDC.
I hope this clarifies the matter for everyone.
Regards.

Stef.

Blow Dog

At risk of jumping the gun, Stef, what happens to those that have been members of the SIDC for considerably longer than others and used to own Subaru's? Surely loyalty must come in here somewhere?

i.e. me?


Cem

CraigH

Cem,

Cars with Max Power add ons shouldn't be allowed

Stef

Cem.
I don't see it ever becoming an issue at present, but if it does in the future then length of membership in the club will obviously play a part.

Stef.

Blow Dog

Marry me Stef.

Craig,
If only you knew how much Halfords are paying me

Cem

TKH

Stef

i think i'd be right in saying you organise the SIDC track events gratis out of the kindness of your heart if so just tell em if they dont go with the flow you'll jack it in then were would we all be

TKH

Stef

TKH.
Kind words mate, but I'm sure they'd manage!

Stef.

CraigH

Cem,

Must be a huge amount if it looks like that!

Kidding

chrisp

Nice one Stef, thats clears the policy up and like you say very little will probably change.

I must say I saw you a couple of times on Sunday rushing around the pit lane, more admin for you than driving though . At least it saves on brakes and tyres .

cheers

chrisp

waynelivesey

Papermache SUBARU IMPREZA lookalike covers avail to order!!

Fool your friends!

Make your 560 BHP Ford Anglia blend in!!

Suitable for SIDC track days (as long as it doesnt rain!)

P.S If you want the lightweight RA model it can be moulded out of rizlas and Andrex if required!

SimonD

Why not guarantee a fixed percentage of places (70/80%?) to Subarus?

DavidLewis

The way things are right now, doesn't bother me. The likes of JohnF, Cem, MikeR and even Dingy make the day more 'interesting'
However, how long will this remain so?
With the price of joining track day clubs plus the charge they make to get on the track, it wont take long before more and more track enthusiast realise that SIDC is a cheap way of getting well organised track time. In time, Subaru drivers will lose out to those that have no other interest in club, social or technical, bar the fact they are entitled to attend SIDC trackdays.
To give them credit, most non-subaru trackday attendees still make a contribution to the Subaru community via this BBS.

The difficult part is to put in place a 'rule' that covers the non-subaru owning members we know and love, yet excluding new so-called members who are purely looking for cheap track time.

I'm glad its not my responsibility!

GaryC

Having spoken to 7 or 8 Impreza owning SIDC members at or about Oulton Park who were unable to get on track because no spaces, I agree with this move. The members present were pissed that on *their* trackday, there seemed to be as many non-imprezas as imprezas on track, yet they couldn't get space.

I too am now a non-subaru owning member, but then an auto-box 330d touring wasn't exactly built for the track

johnfelstead

Ah well, never mind, it was fun kicking your asses.

I wont be sticking myself on any reserve lists, i either know i am doing an event or i dont, i dont have the time or inclination to wonder whether i am wanted or not.

I understand the policy, so no probs with it at all. I guess i will have to go and kick someone elses *** instead.

I hope this isnt a car club only trend setting in, because the normal track days are just too easy to kick *** on.

carl

Perhaps some priority for people like johnf who *own* a Subaru but choose to use another car on the track?

cwal1

If a one make car club allows people to join or remain members, when they do not have the make of car the club was set up to cater for, then it should extend ALL club benefits to ALL club members in equal measure.

If scooby owning SIDC members will be given priority over those without a scoob then the non-scooby owning members should be entitiled to a reduced membership fee to tie in with their reduced benefits.

If the SIDC are going to make distinctions between its members based on the type of car then why do they not just prevent non scooby owners from joining or remaining part of the club and stick to the theme of the IMPREZA DRIVERS club.

When places are limited and on a first come first served basis, some people will always miss out. So what if half a dozen people with a different make of car are enthusiastic and get in there first.

Maybe the following priorities should be set as the membership continues to grow;

#1 UK Spec MY01
#2 UK Spec 22b
#3 P1
#4 UK Spec MY99 and older
#5 Euro imports
#6 Jap imports (inc WRX STI 22b)
#7 Non Subaru's
#8 Pond life



Chris.

Dave T-S

cwal1
So i'd better resign my membership now then

Dave

(UK spec MY00)

[This message has been edited by Dave T-S (edited 22 February 2001).]

Dave T-S

....come to think of it, as a Muppet I probably come into category #8 as well

IWatkins

I got to agree with others here.

If I joined a car club I would want the same benefits as everyone else. If that includes track days, then that too.

It seems that the 'official' priority is:

Impreza Owners
Non-Impreza Owners but used to be
Non-Impreza Owners but have been in club ages
..
..
..
Non-Impreza Owners

I would say that the SIDC either say: "Track days are open to SIDC members regardless of their circumstances, current car ownership, how well they know the SIDC organisers, how long they have been in the club, etc."

or

"Track days are open to Impreza owners only, who are going to use their Impreza on track".

Make your mind up guys.

Cheers

Ian

Blow Dog

Frankly, if you are too slow off the mark when you need to be sending cheques in, then tough ****.

I sent my cheque in nearly 2 weeks after it had been announced and I still got in. If you STILL havent sent your money/intentions in by then, do you really deserve priority?

Seems like a lot of sour grapes to me.
(to those that are complaining about lack of track space, by the way)

Cem


[This message has been edited by Blow Dog (edited 22 February 2001).]

TRIGGER

Seems like there is alot of bad feeling running on this one. Lets not forget the club is all based around those who want to share their enjoyment of driving the Impreza in various ways, including Trackdays. The central theme has to be the actual car we are joining the club for !
This of course doesnt exclude others but the emphasis surely has to remain correctly focused.

But lets be realistic, nothing much will change anyway as there is no huge policy change, with the exception of the BHLG tracks, but this is out of the SIDC's control anyway.

HUNTY

As an ex impreza owner and a member of the SIDC & MLR (Mitsubishi Lancer Register). I am stuck in the middle ground.

Stef has already pointed out that there will probably be no need to change anything. So any real debate on this is pointless.(unless all Evo's get banned)

If the SIDC want to make all events Subarus only then that is there right.

I enjoy doing both SIDC days and MLR days, I don't do them all but it is nice to choose between various dates and tracks.

The SIDC is now a BIG well run club and could easily fill track days on its own. The MLR on the other hand welcomes all cars as there probably couldn't get 75 Evo's together to do a track day and need the support. (this is my opinion, not the MLR's).

I enjoy meeting you all at the tracks and have met several new friends who share a common interest. I hope that all of us who enjoy on-track driving will be able to continue as normal in the future.

Cheers

Kevin.

[This message has been edited by HUNTY (edited 22 February 2001).]

James Douglas

Flippin 'eck Stef.

You'd better make so hard and fast rules that apply to all - people have paid their £20 and now your changing things as suits (however justified)! You cant start adding your own judgement into things - Blowdogs ok but the other guy with an Evo who isnt a mate is not!!!!! It'll be bedlam! Fights, track rage, pit lane ruckass's - youll get them all.

I can just see you telling some new member he cant go on the track because someone who used to have an impreza is out there in a Evo Cossie Westy blah blah (And that he cant come in his mates track day car because its not an impreza!).

You've charged people money. It doesnt say "non - subaru's need not apply! If its a free club of you and your mates you can do what you like. But it aint is it!! Can i suggest that you ballot the members before going ahead - so everyones in the picture?

How many people will want their money back who joined without owning Subarus? Hope youve got a big pot of gold!!

Great idea though. Its an impreza club not a i like impreza's club. Track days should therefore be organised for Imprezas only. Are you gonna ban anything non impreza from provisional places?

Do you actually make money out of track days? So is there a financial incentive to have other cars there to fill up places. Without the other cars would you loose money / make less profit? Id prefer to see a track full of less cars but only imprezas. What are your comments on that - are there enough impreza owners around to make an impreza only day viable financially?

I cant see how you can allow some cars and not others based on "they used to have an imprezas". Surely its got to be all or nothing to be fair to new owners of Imprezas (like myself) who have just joined. Should i miss out because an ex-subaru man wants to play. No - i shouldnt!!!!!

Glad im not you mate!!! Flippin 'eck

James

Stef

James.
As I have already said, the club has made this move in anticipation of what MAY possibly occur in the future, 'nipping it in the bud' so to speak.
The official policy states nothing about ex-Impreza owners, that was something asked by one person and length of membership is a perfectly fair point to consider, though I doubt it will ever need to be. The fact that some of these people are also my friends is irrelevant, and I don't appreciate you implying that I would sort friends out before other members!
Perhaps you should consider why people without Imprezas join the club? If they have a genuine interest in Imprezas, fine.
If they joined purely to take their car on track, again that's fine if there's space.
If they don't like it, they won't join.
If they've already joined and don't like it, they can get a refund of their membership. Simple really.
It will be printed in True Grip so all members know about it.
If anyone disagrees they are free to tell the club the reasons why.

Stef.


[This message has been edited by Stef (edited 22 February 2001).]

Pete Croney

I've watched this thread with great interest.

Four things have changed in the past year, that have caused us to make policy descisions on this matter...

1) BHLG have stopped track day companies (except their own) from booking their circuits. These now include Silverstone.

2) Track day companies that have got confirmed dates, on BHLG or anywhere else have hiked their prices up because they know customers have no choice.

3) SIDC membership approaches 1700, with large over subscription for track days.

4) SIDC track days are open pit lane, offering up to 4 times the amount of track time available from commercial track day companies.


So considering the above, if you had a lightweight rocket that you built for track days, would you pay £295 for a day at Dono (or any other major league circuit), which will give you 17 minutes per hour track time... or would you pay £95 for as much track time as you wanted and with a tyre support unit and insurance against damage to landowners property?

SIDC track days have always been run at cost. The SIDC does not make one penny out of a track day, but a lot of work is needed before, during and sometimes after the day. If we don't fill a day, the club would lose money.

This is not the case with any other track company or major car club.

In the early days, I personally underwrote the cost of track days. It was a big gamble signing up for £6k for a day and then hoping we got enough people to make it pay.

Fortunately we always did.

This year, we have had an influx of people joining the club that do not have Imprezas. It may be a coincidence that these people just happen to have VERY fast track cars. Westfields, Caterhams, Elises, Hondas and yes, even a 400+bhp mkII Escort.

After Oulton Park, both Stef and myself received a number of complaints from members who been on track and were hassled by cars with substantially more power and from members who couldn't get on, but then spectated a field with a large proportion of race orientated non Imprezas. These members quite rightly asked if it was still the SIDC, or were we changing our name.

We began discussing this after Oulton, but both Stef and I took a keen interest in what was happening at Dono on Sunday. The standard of driving was the best I had seen at a track day. In fact the track was only stopped by red lights, 4 times. These were when the TVR went off into the gravel during the familiarisation laps, the Honda went off into the gravel, the Escort broke down and Miek Rainbird's, normally reliable, Cosworth broke down.

The fact that the four stoppages were all non Imprezas did not influence our meeting.

We have for three years, shared all of our dates with the MTR (or LTR as it used to be) and several of their members have been SIDC members for many years. Blow Dog, Hunty and Andy Bolton, your names have come up in our discussions.

The point is this... The club is the Subaru Impreza Drivers Club. We, as the appointed Committee of the club, must make sure that the interests of Subaru Impreza drivers are paramount.

We do not believe that the steps we are taking are any different to what the Committee of any other single make owners club would take, in our situation.

If we can, we will gladly take non Imprezas onto a track day, but we must consider our Impreza owning members first.

TKH

And i think that should just about conclude this agenda.

Cheers Stef & Pete

Regards

Tim

Stef

Pete.

"...and Mike Rainbird's, normally reliable, Cosworth broke down."

Where's the smilie?????

Stef.

Blow Dog

Nicely put Pete, I am keen to see the long term effect of this.

I remember talking with you a few months back now re. the development of the SIDC and its primary orientation. There was, you will remember, a time when SIDC committee members were argueing that the SIDC should not represent a track-day club. This was something which, at the time, you were fighting for. I would say that without track-day inclusion, the SIDC would lose a significant amount of subscribers.

At the same time though, I do understand wholeheartedly the implications of providing cheap trackdays for anyone who owns a car in the UK.

I can see the queues building now

Dare I say it, despite the fact that I am a member of a few car clubs, the SIDC is by far the most modern, well run and most importantly, the friendliest club of all.
If this rule would be enforced anytime soon, I can see my expensive hobby come to an end very soon.

Cem

Mike Rainbird

Pete,
I understand and agree with everything that has been said, hence apart from my first posting, I have kept pretty much out of it.

However, I consider myself (rightly or wrongly ) a fully committed SIDC member. I didn't JUST join because of the track days, but also with the view of developing a proper relationship between the RSOC and SIDC (which unfortunately has not amounted to much so far.... ). This was firstly in the form of advising Anders (when he was on the committee) who to contact with the view to setting up an SIDC version of the RSOC insurance scheme (again which amounted to nothing for what-ever reasons, but the thought was there and I can only lead the horse to the water ) and secondly attempting to provide a venue for a joint RSOC / Scooby meeting - both in Norfolk and Suffolk (which has proved moderately successful and sees 4-7 Subarus turn up, when they can be bothered ). This year will also be my third renewal of my SIDC membership, so I must be one of the founder member non-owners .

So obviously from my TOTALLY biased point of view , I felt that to be excluded or rather precluded was a little harsh, if it was in favour of an SIDC Scooby owner who had made no efforts / contributions to the expansion / improvement of the club or with less membership time. However, I suppose it could be argued that I should give someone else a go on track who hasn't done it before (bvgger, I hate these swings and round-a-bouts! ).

My own views are that everyone gets the same opportunity to book the tracks (accept those that are on holiday at the time ), so if they can't pull their fingers out, then tough - and I only go to the Dono / Snetterton ones anyway.... Personally I blame BHLG, and I hope the greedy ******* get their fingers very badly burned, as they are theiving barstewards of the highest order. I just hope the SIDC doesn't ever decide to make a quick buck in the long run at the expense of it's members and I only wish the RSOC were as into their track events as you lot are, and then I wouldn't have to be on my hands and knees on the scrounge all the time....

Anyway, surely it would be more fair and sensible for SIDC Scooby owning members that missed out at Oulton or at any other tack event, to be given preferential treatment at the next one - i.e. guaranteed places? As an example, those seven (or however many there were that complained about not getting on track at Oulton - and I don't mean the moaning gits who like to complain, but wouldn't have gone out anyway ); should have had their names transferred to the Donington list. Just a suggestion.
Cheers
Mike R
PS. My little breakdown only stopped the track for about four minutes.....

Neil Smalley

I've been reading the to's and fro's of this discussion for a few days.

I must confess that I don't like the sound of losing members(many of whom could be household SIDC names) because of any misinterpretation of this policy.

I may take my car on track this year and would like to think there was a place available for me if I chose to. On the other hand I think a variety of cars adds to the culture of the SIDC and removes us from the insular nature of many other clubs.

I believe the decision taken, is the right one but also a brave one. I would hope(and I know) that Stef and the SIDC commitee would be open minded and big enough to change the policy again if this one proved to be detrimental in the longer term.

As it stands and as I see it not every Subaru owner is going to want to take their car on track, which leaves lots of space for everyone else.

As a point of note. How many people joined the RSOC so that they could get a cheap track day at silverstone last year?