Why arent you using E85 / BioEthanol ?
17 January 2009, 02:54 PM
#275
Scooby Regular
Finally got round to mapping mine on BIO at Tracktive today for full power runs on the dyno. Has to be said it was bad news all round! 
BIO did not achieve the results that were expected. With a 20% mix we acheived around 495bhp at the hubs. This netted about 20bhp up on the previous VPower map. The car wouldn't take any further ignition without det and the turbo was getting close to running flatout at the top end. The current BIO map was running about 5degs more ignition than the VPower map, but the peak power was shifting to the left..... the turbo couldn't produce anymore power.
So..... looking back at what has been acheived so far, it looks like my car was already running very well on VPower and at that level the turbo was OK and DET was not an issue. On VPower we have increased the power by 30bhp, compared against what the car produced on Tracktives rollers a couple of months back, when then ran on Zen's RR. This figure at Zen was nigh on 500bhp at the fly. When the car is run again, it should see (all things being equal) around 530bhp at Zen's.
So, as someone else has elluded to, BIO mix of 20% (say) will not always equate to an increase of 10%. It all depends on how your set-up has already responded to VPower initially, and of course how much air your turbo can flow.
I will not be using BIO..... it is simply not worth it for me.
For me this is the FINAL part of my development. I refuse to increase the wheel size on my turbo, as I will not sacrifice the awesome low down grunt that my current turbo provides. 480ftlb at 3500rpm is tremendous torque in anyones book and I have yet to see anyone top this with a direct fit turbo on VPower, yet still deliver over 500bhp top end.
Now that is not really bad news, but my head gaskets failing is!!!
Yep.... they have finally popped their clogs today!
Being philosophical about this though, my new engine has had a bit of a hard life. It has seen over 2bar for a majority of it's 9.5k use and has ran (I estimate) well over 100 runs on the dyno, which much of it being back to back, full bore runs...... not the ideal environment conducive to head gaskets i'm sure! Based on the fact that it has the OE 2.5 headgaskets on (for all intent and purpose) an OE 2.5 block casing and standard cylinders, it was only to be expected. Afterall, this car has been a development car to see what was possible.
It's now time for a strip down, sort the gaskets, build back up and for me to finally use it for what it was intended for.
In reality a head gasket is no major issue and only to be expected at this kind of level of usage and set-up.
BIO did not achieve the results that were expected. With a 20% mix we acheived around 495bhp at the hubs. This netted about 20bhp up on the previous VPower map. The car wouldn't take any further ignition without det and the turbo was getting close to running flatout at the top end. The current BIO map was running about 5degs more ignition than the VPower map, but the peak power was shifting to the left..... the turbo couldn't produce anymore power.
So..... looking back at what has been acheived so far, it looks like my car was already running very well on VPower and at that level the turbo was OK and DET was not an issue. On VPower we have increased the power by 30bhp, compared against what the car produced on Tracktives rollers a couple of months back, when then ran on Zen's RR. This figure at Zen was nigh on 500bhp at the fly. When the car is run again, it should see (all things being equal) around 530bhp at Zen's.
So, as someone else has elluded to, BIO mix of 20% (say) will not always equate to an increase of 10%. It all depends on how your set-up has already responded to VPower initially, and of course how much air your turbo can flow.
I will not be using BIO..... it is simply not worth it for me.
For me this is the FINAL part of my development. I refuse to increase the wheel size on my turbo, as I will not sacrifice the awesome low down grunt that my current turbo provides. 480ftlb at 3500rpm is tremendous torque in anyones book and I have yet to see anyone top this with a direct fit turbo on VPower, yet still deliver over 500bhp top end.
Now that is not really bad news, but my head gaskets failing is!!!
Yep.... they have finally popped their clogs today!
Being philosophical about this though, my new engine has had a bit of a hard life. It has seen over 2bar for a majority of it's 9.5k use and has ran (I estimate) well over 100 runs on the dyno, which much of it being back to back, full bore runs...... not the ideal environment conducive to head gaskets i'm sure!
Based on the fact that it has the OE 2.5 headgaskets on (for all intent and purpose) an OE 2.5 block casing and standard cylinders, it was only to be expected. Afterall, this car has been a development car to see what was possible.It's now time for a strip down, sort the gaskets, build back up and for me to finally use it for what it was intended for.
In reality a head gasket is no major issue and only to be expected at this kind of level of usage and set-up.
17 January 2009, 03:33 PM
#277
Scooby Regular
I suspect not mate. Firstly I am not sure that there is enough meat on the standard tops to make this worthwhile and secondly I started to get suspicions of HG issues after we ran the car at 2.5bar.
I already have extra clamping pressure around the tops of the bores since my block has been "adapted". I am fairly certain, had that not been the case, the HG's would of gone more or less instantly even at boost approaching 2bar.
I think that this level of boost (2.5bar) caused the heads to lift, which guffed the HG. I will also be using a better HG this time, coupled with the fact that I will be running the same kind of boost levels as I did when the car was mapped for Zen's shootout (1.9bar peak boost / 1.75bar peak power) it should all be OK this time.
I've done all the testing I am prepared to do and 520-530bhp on VPower is more than enough for me to stick with going forward.
I already have extra clamping pressure around the tops of the bores since my block has been "adapted". I am fairly certain, had that not been the case, the HG's would of gone more or less instantly even at boost approaching 2bar.
I think that this level of boost (2.5bar) caused the heads to lift, which guffed the HG. I will also be using a better HG this time, coupled with the fact that I will be running the same kind of boost levels as I did when the car was mapped for Zen's shootout (1.9bar peak boost / 1.75bar peak power) it should all be OK this time.
I've done all the testing I am prepared to do and 520-530bhp on VPower is more than enough for me to stick with going forward.
17 January 2009, 06:24 PM
#279
Scooby Regular
Nope... 11mm Cosworth Bolts. I have been advised from two sources, that the 14mm route is not worth the gas of having the machine work done unless the engine is being totally stripped.
18 January 2009, 11:01 AM
#286
Scooby Regular
Fai17,
Use some silicon sealer from Halfords!
Assuming it is just the HG that has gone, replace it with a new one. Not an OE one this time, but an uprated Cosworth set (which were not available at the time I had the engine built).
Like I said, the combination of what the engine has been put through over the past 9500miles has undoutedly contributed to an early HG failure. It is thought that had the engine not spent so much time on dyno's, repeatedly, had big boost pushed through it (2bar+), coupled with some other things, it should of been OK. Richard ended up with circa 480bhp at the hubs on VPower, with 1.9bar peak boost and 1.75 boost at peak power, so no point in pushing boost any higher in reality..... and it is enough power for what I want.
Use some silicon sealer from Halfords!
Assuming it is just the HG that has gone, replace it with a new one. Not an OE one this time, but an uprated Cosworth set (which were not available at the time I had the engine built).
Like I said, the combination of what the engine has been put through over the past 9500miles has undoutedly contributed to an early HG failure. It is thought that had the engine not spent so much time on dyno's, repeatedly, had big boost pushed through it (2bar+), coupled with some other things, it should of been OK. Richard ended up with circa 480bhp at the hubs on VPower, with 1.9bar peak boost and 1.75 boost at peak power, so no point in pushing boost any higher in reality..... and it is enough power for what I want.
18 January 2009, 11:06 AM
#287
Scooby Regular
Duncan,
That is an interesting point and something I never took up with Richard yesterday. I assume that the cylinder pressures increased with the higher octane rating / air content? Whilst it may not of been the root cause, perhaps it did not help. It certainly did not help my fuel rails, as they immediately leaked as soon as BIO was pumped through them. I would be very interested to what affect it can have on seals etc longterm. I know Richard said that when he took the fuel rails off to sort, the injector O-Ring had ballooned in size, to the point that it just fell off! Whether this was related to the BIO being pumped through is not for certain. Something worth thinking about though.
That is an interesting point and something I never took up with Richard yesterday. I assume that the cylinder pressures increased with the higher octane rating / air content? Whilst it may not of been the root cause, perhaps it did not help. It certainly did not help my fuel rails, as they immediately leaked as soon as BIO was pumped through them. I would be very interested to what affect it can have on seals etc longterm. I know Richard said that when he took the fuel rails off to sort, the injector O-Ring had ballooned in size, to the point that it just fell off! Whether this was related to the BIO being pumped through is not for certain. Something worth thinking about though.
18 January 2009, 12:49 PM
#291
Scooby Regular
Would be interesting to know.... if not only for something else for me to blame!
Richard did say to me that VP Import would certainly lift my heads, although I fully appreciate that is not BIO.
Richard did say to me that VP Import would certainly lift my heads, although I fully appreciate that is not BIO.
18 January 2009, 05:08 PM
#294
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interestly i have a friend who works at the refinery were bio-ethanol is blended with petrol I have asked him to find out some info for me before I use it.
his response was do not leave the fuel even in a mixed state in the vehicle for any period of time, as in his words its extremely corrosive & will effect o rings, seals & other conponants. the tankers that carry this stuff about have special tanks & pumping gear has it would kill stanard tankers, he suggested that if used it, a full fill up with stanard fuel after use would help the issues when standing. therefore 2 maps would be needed.
this is not scare mungering I just though you should know what your dealing with
his response was do not leave the fuel even in a mixed state in the vehicle for any period of time, as in his words its extremely corrosive & will effect o rings, seals & other conponants. the tankers that carry this stuff about have special tanks & pumping gear has it would kill stanard tankers, he suggested that if used it, a full fill up with stanard fuel after use would help the issues when standing. therefore 2 maps would be needed.
this is not scare mungering I just though you should know what your dealing with
21 January 2009, 09:18 PM
#296
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Just thought i would post on here as this is where i originally found out about E85....
Duncan (Dynamix) remapped my car two weeks ago now and i must say, i still have a smile on my face!!!
Having 225bhp as standard, it was a bit slow, and i had got used to the power.
We first mapped it for standard Tesco Super Unleaded (99RON), and the difference was amazing, as you would expect. I was well impressed.
Then came the map for 10% E85 (only 10% as i still have 440 injectors) and OH MY GOD!!!! The torque was amazing and when boost came in it felt alot stronger than the previous map.
I have done 1500 miles in the last two weeks and i wouldn't go back. E85 all the way for me.
Many thanks to Duncan for his time (mostly explaining all the complicated mapping details to a monkey (me) ), coffee and for giving me effectively a new car
Cheers fella!
Duncan (Dynamix) remapped my car two weeks ago now and i must say, i still have a smile on my face!!!
Having 225bhp as standard, it was a bit slow, and i had got used to the power.
We first mapped it for standard Tesco Super Unleaded (99RON), and the difference was amazing, as you would expect. I was well impressed.
Then came the map for 10% E85 (only 10% as i still have 440 injectors) and OH MY GOD!!!! The torque was amazing and when boost came in it felt alot stronger than the previous map.
I have done 1500 miles in the last two weeks and i wouldn't go back. E85 all the way for me.
Many thanks to Duncan for his time (mostly explaining all the complicated mapping details to a monkey (me) ), coffee and for giving me effectively a new car
Cheers fella!
22 January 2009, 12:28 AM
#297
Hi Shaun, thanks for the very useful information contained in the thread regards your project and particularly post 275. Sorry to hear you found the limitations but it took you a while until the inevitable happened so I think it is a great credit to those involved. Cheers.
08 December 2009, 01:10 PM
#299
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So, how much does it cost, how much will they deliver and whats there terms and conditions on storage, i assume they just dont deliver to any old house/street etc?
also i don't see any info on E85 but some on E95, but it only mentions this is for diesel bus's
08 December 2009, 01:50 PM
#300
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threads the better part of a year old (yes i just read the full ten pages lol) have you found any kind of damage to your injector o rings or any other part of your fuel system Dunc?