Neanderthal

iTrader: (6)

Well I'm glad that I didn't "invest" 2k on taking the MCSE course because I want a career change, as it appears that no one seems to rate it as a qualification

People don't seem to credit the fact that if someone has spent their own money taking a course to get an industry standard qualification it probably means they're committed to a career in this field?

Matt

P1Fanatic

Just cos you have an MCSE it doesnt make you committed. Besides we arent talking about commitment - we are talking about the knowledge a person has in order to do their job and as everyone has already said - an MCSE is no substitute for hands on experience. I would suggest going for a job that offers the MCSE training as part of the job and that also pays for each qual you get so that you start low but progress up the payscale as you learn.

ozzy

Matt,

If you invest in the MCSE qualification then it will get your foot in the door, but it won't teach you everything. It's not a bad qualification, but you don't really have to work hard to earn it.

A very good m8 of mine spent 7 years in the Royal Marines and rather than doing the usual thing of joing one of the other civilian forces decided on a career in IT. I did the complete reverse, just to start getting away from IT

He managed to get his MCSE (NT4) at the time in less than 3 months, but it's taken him another 3 years to back it up with real-life experience. It got him into his job, but it's taken him a while to start getting paid anywhere near the average wage.

With IT, you get loads of young guys who think they know everything just because they have an MCSE. 8 years ago when I started it was similar thing with the CNE. I've personally had to go in after people with "so called" qualifications have screwed things up - I've even been a professional witness in a couple of court cases in the pasy It's not pleasent, so I can see why people (quite rightly) say that just having an MCSE isn't everything.

Just my 2 cents worth,
Stefan

fast bloke

Puff - go and find a keen 17yo on the dole queue. Pay them 6 or 7 grand and train them yourself. If you find someone who wants to make an effort they will probably be better in a month than a graduate with MCSE who falsely believe they know it all.

DBDOM

I think there is a distinct difference between NT4 MCSE and WIN2k MCSE the exams are tougher and the skillset is greater. NT4 MCSE were just classed as pieces of paper but things are changing with win2k

RVeiga

Get a young lad or lad'ess that is keen and perhaps wants to do their MCSE. You can then pay then around £15K and add the MCSE costs on-top and give it as a benefit. Put claw back's in the employement contract, so they don't p!ss off.

In todays market, if you got someone who is keen and works hard. This would be more valuable than any MCSE qualification.

MCSE's - lots of them about and lots just remember the Microsoft books - not good.

If your budget is £20k you could perhaps also pay a good company for 2nd of 3rd line support. If you do this get at least 3 ref's, I prefer to have a chat rather than some letter bullsh!t. or do a deal with some of the guys that have sorted things for you in the past...

..r

P1Fanatic

I echo what Ga22ar said. If someone has an MCSE that they did in their spare time whilst working at Tescos or whatever then it shows nothing more than an ability to read a book and learn. If on the other hand someone has gained one whilst working for 2 years with an MIS or Sysdmin job then its more than likely they have a good idea of what they are doing. Anyone recruiting, that looks at MCSE type qualifications over experience shouldnt be in the job.

Cisco is the same - well specificly the CCNA - read a book answer some multiple choice questions. This doesnt mean a CCNA qualifed person has any idea how to maintain, troubleshoot Cisco LANS, WANS etc. Half the stuff within a CCNA you will forgot or you dont need to know - I mean who the hell needs to know every god damn command - as long as you know what your looking for the CISCO IOS is easy to work through '?' is your best friend Once you get onto the CCIE labs then you need to know your **** inside out.

[Edited by P1Fanatic - 2/7/2002 9:11:38 AM]