Petem95

To be honest I would say it potentially makes you less British - it depends if you've adopted the British culture or not. I know thats something thats hard to define, but if I saw some people of Asian appearance wearing traditional dress, full beards and speaking in Urdu, then they could still be third generation immigrants, but in most people eyes would not be defined as British, despite what it may say on their passports.

On the other hand if you saw a group of Asians down the pub in jeans and a t-shirt enjoying a pint and a good winge then a much larger proportion would define them as British.

PeteBrant

Definition of British.

Are you a British citizen?

If the answer to the above question is yes. Then you are, by definition, British.

Suresh

Bloody hell Pete - does your PC claptrap not know any bounds?

If people deliberately choose to be different, then they should expected to be treated as different IMHO. Men walking around in dresses sporting 'terrorist-suspect goatee beards' should not really expect to be accepted if they choose to sport symbols celebrating their 'apartheid'. You could say that it shouldn't matter as we all have the same passport, but unfortunately for you human nature dictates that it does!

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

Just on the point of deliberately being different, I don't personally think it is a bad thing, whether it is done through choice or a person is in fact not 'different' in the sense they are going down the path they know or are taught, just in the 'wrong' environment. Everybody is different in one way or another, even the indigenous people, and if no actual harm is being caused by that, even if I'm alone in this, I don't see a problem.

Whether it be what your interests are, what clothes you wear, if you follow religion or not, what religion you might follow, what music you like, whether you like a drink, what sexual preference you have, your views and opinions etc. I could go on, but the point is we are all different in at least some ways, and if a person leads a good life, no matter what way they are different, what really is the problem? That is what makes us human, we aren't all the same, we are diverse and at times very complicated, if we could just get to a point where we accepted that, and lived with a bit more respect from all corners, there would be far less problems than there are today.

Whether we like it or not, we live in a country which is mixed, and as is often claimed 'more civilised', as such we need to try and get along so to speak. If anyone wants to get mad, get mad at those who really do wrong, no matter what race/religion/origin/colour etc they are.

PeteBrant

It's not PC claptrap, it's a fact.

By any legal measure, if you are a British citizen, then you are British. If you have a British Passport, then you are British.
It says on there "Her Britannic Majesty's Secretary of State Requests and requires in the Name of Her Majesty all those whom it may concern to allow the bearer to pass freely without let or hindrance, and to afford the bearer such assistance and protection as may be necessary."

It does not have the caveat - P.S. This obviously doesn't apply to someone that is Arabian looking and doesn't wear jeans and tshirt

What should people walk around in then, Suresh? What are you saying, that if someone born, raised and living in this country decides to wear a Sari, is somehow less British than anyone else born on this country?

Or is it just reserved for people that have beards and wear traditional Muslim attire?

What if you are Muslim, and decide not to wear that, and dress in tousers and a jumper, does that make you More British, but not quite as British as a non Muslim?

What are the various levels of Britishness you are suggesting? Perhaps if you wear a suit and bowler hat you could be level 1 British.

All of the above, is, of course utterly ridiculous, but only to illustrate the complete ridiculousness of your previous comment.

This is afree country. People can wear, pretty much, what the **** they like. And they should be able to do so without having thier "Britishness" questioned.

Suresh

Pete there you go again with the same PC ballix. Fortunately there is little relationship between the real world and your ideal dream world. Thankfully, nor is there ever likely to be a connection

If people choose to abandon common sense and any modicom of self-awareness for the sake of provocative symbolism then that's their free choice. If they then start bleating about prejudice / discrimination then I'll be the first to laugh at them!

PeteBrant

I think you'll find its the other way round.

British people all over the country wear saris, lederhosen, Kimonos, Kaftans, cowboy hats and manage to get by quite well thank you very much.
Adandon common sense? What are you talking about?

It should be common sense not to wear, say, a turban? Because if you do you deserve discrimination, because you are being "provocative"? Is that what you're saying?

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

It would be interesting to know what is viewed as acceptable/normal

Before I've even posted this, I'm sorry I asked, but it seems at times people are a little closed minded. I mean no offence, but come on here, as said before don't have a go over differences in people. I'm not too tolerant to say the least about wrong doing, but not about people being different (we all are somehow).

Dracoro

Can you be British if not born here?

Suresh

Golden tip - just wanting something to be true doesn't make it happen.

Whilst those who are still a little wet behind the ears might believe that legislating against a certain type of behaviour will change it, the rest of us know a little better. I have a proud feeling that I've taken on discrimination in companies that I've worked at and have risen above it. If being successful in a white man's world makes me an 'uncle tom' or a 'coconut' according to less-successful immigrants then that's just fine by me!

Even the country's favourite lefty paper acknowledges that accentuating cultural/religious differences results in discrimination. It's not rocket science, but seemingly quite a lot of people still don't get it -


Hard work at bottom of the job market | UK news | The Guardian

A report into religious discrimination by the University of Derby found that employers were making it tough for Muslims to observe religious holidays and practices. Professor Paul Weller, who headed the project, said: "The more visible a minority you are, the more you experience difficulties."
British Muslims are visible through their dress, women through wearing the hijab, and also their practices such as praying at work - as well as what they do not do, such as going for a drink after work.


Omer Ahmed, 34, traineee solicitor
"Anyone in the labour force knows that one of the best ways to get ahead is to socialise with colleagues. The implications of not going out are often huge. Impressions are formed with management and it affects you professionally. Friends of mine who work on the trading floor have difficulty even finding time to go to the toilet, let alone trying to take time out to pray during the day."

PeteBrant

All that tell us is that there is an element of discrimination in the workplace. In other news, the earth is revealed not to be flat.

It doesn't condone it, and it certainly doesn't justify it. And since the article was written in 2002, it is now illegal for less than intelligent ***** to discriminate on religious grounds.

Again, can you give me any reason why someone who decides to wear a turban, deserves prejudice?

dpb

holy cow ..!

Suresh

Not about 'deserving' and how it 'should' work. The fact is that if people have so little nous and self-awareness to understand how it really works then I have little sympathy for them. Of course discrimination isn't right, but factually no amount of law-making is going to change it. Pretending that legislation has prevented discrimination shows a shocking lack of understanding of how the world really works.

The bold text I posted from the Grauniad indicates that the level of discrimination experienced is actually in the hands of the victim (you seem to have ignored that your comment that "British people all over the country wear saris, lederhosen, Kimonos, Kaftans, cowboy hats and manage to get by quite well thank you very much." has been totally blown out of the water.

As I said before, laws to not change attitudes. Observed behaviours are what change attitudes. I am well-educated, integrated and very hard-working - I really don't need to play the victim and get my lefty mates to arrange more legal protection for me . I am also probably the most senior 'darkie' in the Dutch part of the company (55,000 employees here). I play by the rules and manage to 'win' all by myself. That wouldn't have been possible if I had insisted upon a cultural right to walk around the office in my pyjamas and to wobble my head constantly whilst demanding a separate prayer room - and I for one can understand why. Please tell me that you are starting to get it now?

PeteBrant

SO, rather than actually fight discriminsation, you feel it best to just give in, and comply to completely irrational prejudice?
Well, no, its doesn't really. Three anecdotal stories does not make for compelling evidence. I see people of all backgrounds managing to get on perfectly well with each other every day without being abused, or discriminsated against.
It's not about playing the victim, discriminating against someone due to thier sexuality, religion or race is illegal, and rightly so.

Surely you don't think such laws should be repealed?
Right, I think maybe we are talking at cross puposes here.

Let me give you an example.

As a senior manager, you obviosly dress smartly and in a suit, or whatever,as is expected. Now if you are saying that there should not be a law in order for you to be able to don a kaftan etc instead of suit, then I absolutely agree with you. There shouldn't. I mean I quite fancy wearing shorts and a t shirt into the office on days like today, but I can't - there is a dress code. And it should apply evenly to everyone.

WhatswiththeR

iTrader: (1)

[QUOTE=dee052;7928949]Its not suprising the b.n.p. are doing better each year, I'm all for people earning an honest wage and paying taxes, but something needs doing about the p**s takers, including the white 'Jeremy Kyle' show stars. It would be interesting to find out who would not argue with being conscripted to fight for our country if world war 3 kicked off. I feel that if your not willing to fight for this country then you shouldn't be here.[/QUOTE]

i disagree with this, i wouldn't fight for this country simply beacause of the royal family, i don't see what the point in a royal family as anymore in the old days it was the kings or queens responsibility to run the country and sort out taxes etc but all i ever see the royal family do now days is just wave to people, open things up and use our millitary as there personal mini-cab service as for the hindu school thing i don't really mind its the same as a catholic schoo imo.

Suresh

Of course I'm not giving in. My method is not to bleat but to play by the rules and win. What is more inspirational a) a failed whiner b) a successful self-made man

That was anecdotal evidence there by the way
The University of Derby report is most-likely based on scientific method rather such anecdotal evidence. I understand the 3 quotes to be examples rather than compelling evidence and the sole basis of the report.

No of course not, but if I run around in my PJs, wobble my head and talk jibber jabber whilst avoiding making any effort to integrate then there is a case of intolerance.


You're right but it doesn't stop people from trying to insist that they be allowed to wear a something different in order that their traditions be respected. They're their own worst enemy in drawing attention to themselves which is identified by the report a catalyst for discrimination.

Here is a prime example -
NHS gown to protect patient modesty



and another
The Burkini (cracking brand name)



I'd like to discuss this over a beer one day just to understand what makes you tick!

PeteBrant

For sure