eggy790

iTrader: (20)

hi havnt read the whole thread but just wanted to write a bit regarding some of what i read on the last page, sorry if its already been answered (im a collegue of eggy790s)

Addressing Point one:

As being a Muslim a few considerations are of utmost importance to me:

1) My relationship with my Creator which is based upon both Love & Awe

2) My focus on achieving the best outcome (both in this world and the next)

3) Absolute respect for the honour and dignity of every human being

4) The Islamic sense of Justice and equity between the two sexes

In Islam a woman is not considered a “commodity” which you meet up in a club on a weekend, sleep with on Saturday night and discard Monday morning. Love and devotion between spouses is cherished and valued in Islam and the Islamic society is based upon mutual love, respect and honour between the two spouses, this is sign of the Creator as the Qur’aan says:

[30:21] And it is among His signs that He has created for you wives from among yourselves, so that you may find tranquillity in them, and He has created love and kindness between you. Surely in this there are signs for a people who reflect.

It is this very “meeting in a club” & “Sex for Hire & Pleasure” which has put the Western society on the brink of disaster. The family system is in disarray and the moral fibre is shred to piece. I would like to discuss a few stories .

A week ago we were told that a 12 year old(Alfie Patten) has become a Father while engaged in a relationship with a 15 year old girl. 3 days ago we were told Chantelle (the Mother at 15!!!) was in a relationship with two other boys Richard Goodsell (16) & Tyler Barker (14) and court will now conduct DNA test to determine who the real father is!

A few months ago the story of 72 year old (Josef Fritzal from Austria) broke who fathered children from his own daughters for 24 years!

Contrast both of these stories to the verse of the Qur’aan and its commandment about marriage to ensure Love, respect and devotion.

In short anyone with an aim to please their Creator WILL NEITHER go to a club NOR marry anyone who doesn’t have the same goals in life. Your mentioning of the word “Jew” in your question is pure sensationalism! In Islam relationship is based on compatibility and having similar goals so I wouldn’t marry anyone (even a Non-practising Muslim let alone a Jew or a Christian etc.) who doesn’t have the similar goals.

You have brought the hypothetical case of “my Sister” again for sensationalism but as far as the Qur’aan is concerned:

[6:164] Say, .Should I seek a lord other than Allah while He is the Lord of everything? And nobody does anything but to his own account, and no bearer of burden shall bear the burden of another. Then to your Lord is your return. Then He will let you know what you were disputing about.

In other words I am not responsible for the actions of my “adult” Sister any more then I am responsible for your actions or you are responsible for the actions of “Your Sister”.

Addressing Point Two:

The laws of apostasy are concerned with the “Citizens of an Islamic state” and you of all people have no room to complain. It is tantamount to treason and the punishment differs amongst scholars.

Just like the laws for treason differ in different societies from death to life-imprisonment , they differ according to various scholars of Islam.
People are being thrown into Guantanamo Bay, tortured by both the Americans & the British on mere supposition and allegations. Anti-Terror laws are being used to shut down banks from Iceland. Do you consider all of that in your backyard fair, legal and equitable?

: - ) Do reply as I will be waiting : - )

Your views are based UPON PURE IGNORANCE of Islamic history, let me try to educate you on FACTS:

1) Muslim rules over Spain for over 800 years. During this time when the “Christians of Europe” persecuted, killed and kicked out Jews they found respite with the Muslims of Spain and they (not Muslims) consider this period as their Golden period:

Golden age of Jewish culture in Spain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Contrast this to the recent persecutions of Palestinians (Muslims) at the hands of the Israelis (Jews)

2) Muslims ruled over India for nearly 1000 years. Muslims were minority and Hindus were majority and the demographics remained the same…let me explain in simple words “NO TEMPLES WERE DESTROYED AND NO ONE WAS FORCE CONVERTED TO ISLAM”. Who do you think built the “Taj Mahal in India”? Who do think maintained historic Hindu temples and places of worship for 1000 years?

3) In case of Taliban let me bring you the case of Yvonne Riddley. This is a left-wing liberal ENGLISH WOMAN who was kept in custody by the Taliban, saw their behaviour upfront and personally, came out and embraced Islam. Does it sound like Propaganda to you? If Taliban were so devious why would a Western Women embrace Islam.

Yvonne Ridley - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Let me also tell you about “Sara Bokker” who was a “swim-suit Model” and not only embraced Islam (after 9/11) but also opted to cover her face. SHE NEVER LEFT AMERICA! What would cause her to do that? Think about that!

Why I Shed Bikini for Niqab: The New Symbol of Women's Liberation

Islam is the fastest growing religion in the West and in particular amongst western women. If Islam is such a backward, barbaric and sexist religion why are all these western-women embracing Islam, under no compulsion I may add?

: - ) Do reply as I will be waiting : - )

Lastly, the accusations of intolerance are bogus and far-fetched and perhaps based on “Christo-European History” where people were burned to the cross (for thinking that the earth is round) and Jews expelled and subject to Gas-Chambers.

Islam ruled over the world for centuries (with might power) and I challenge you to provide a single incident along the lines of “Hitler’s treatment of the Jews” or along the lines of fascist treatment of Mussolini’s in Italy.

Even during the Crusades the Muslim King (Saladin) forgave and permitted all Non-Muslims (who had forcibly taken his land and killed Muslims) to leave in peace. This is all written and admitted by Christian historians (not Muslims).

The Qur’aan clearly states:

[2:256] There is no compulsion in Faith.

Subsequently, there is no compulsion or command for Muslims to forcibly convert anyone to Islam and we have proved that in Spain (Muslim treatment of Jews) while the Israeli (Jewish) treatment of Palestinians (Muslims) and Muslim treatment in UK (Paki etc.) is for all to see.

Nothing more needs to be said.

Looking forward to a meaningful dialogue with you as long as quote history and Qur’aan accurately.

Thanks

Alan C

Amen to that!

GC8WRX

You seem to be like that guy i used to work with, and seem to be against most of what goes on, if that is the case, you can have a drink on me!

Like i have said in many previous threads, i base my opinions on what i see happening around me, and my old work mate, Humar, really opened up my eyes as to the "us and them" mentality that his family have, even he thought it was bollocks, but if he spoke out to his father about it, he freely admitted he would be ostracised!

Im leaving this thread now, as my views have been well publicised.

Luan, it was nothiing personal mate, it just seems me and you clashed a bit on this thread.

laters peeps, its been emotional.

markGT

Then you haven’t read your bible mate! The transfiguration ring any bells? On the mountain with Elijah.

So you have no problem with rape, ethnic cleansing or slavery, what a nice person you must be. If Moses was alive today he'd be in the Hague for crimes against humanity.

"Slaughter all the men and for the women that hath known a man slaughter also, but keep the virgins for yourselves"; top guy Moses!!!


I could go on and on and embarrass you even further with your inane lack of knowledge of your Holly book if you want me to.

It’s all made up anyway, Moses didn't really murder etc etc as he never actually existed.

Luan Pra bang

So you have admitted in your own posts that these claims come from a hadith not the Quoran and that half of the Muslim faith Denies and right of any Hadiths to exist let alone these ones. A dodgy scholalry invention does not justify the demonisation of a religion. Any faith has dubious scholalry association and these are discarded with time the only flaw here is that some Suuni Muslims still accept the Hadith's which is Blasphemy to Shias.

You have againt missed the point massively with regard to brain washing I am not a Muslim, I don't believe in religion or god and you seem to miss another point with what this discussion was about it was about wether Islam was inherently more violent than the other religions, not wether god exists or not.

GC8WRX

Bollocks to leaving this guy just pi55ed me off.

Sex for hire and pleasure, broken western society, STFU u clown.

If two people work all week, thwen go to the same club on a saturday, meet up, get talking then go home together, why is that wrong?

Too right you dont look at women as a commodity, you look at them as second class citizens!

And what are you on about "discarded" on a monday morning, what a stupid way to look at it!

May be if you went out on a weekend, had a bit of fun, and chose you own wife, one you were proud of, not one you were forced to marry and now cover up with the burkha cos your ashamed of her, you may think differently!

All you have just posted backs up my "us and them" mentality ive been saying you have, if you dont like western values, **** OFF back to your own land!

Luan Pra bang

I actually thought you refersing to Moses who used to Post on this board not moses the biblical character.

GC8WRX

LOL, so did i at first!

markr1963

Fine in theory but, trouble is, some people's own conscience is the product of brainwashed doctine. Fundamentalists of any religion if you will. But, in essence, I agree with you. There's some merit in "f**keth not upon others, lest they f**k upon you". Not exactly scripture, but you get the drift.

Dazza's-STi

Ok try these...
O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. - 5:54

When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds, then set them free, either by grace or ransom, until the war lays down its burdens. - 47:4

As for the man who steals and the woman who steals, cut off their hands as punishment for what they have earned, an exemplary punishment from Allah. - Surah 5:38

"Forbidden to you are...married women, except those you own as slaves." (Surah 4:20-, 2 4-)

"You shall not force your slave-girls into prostitution in order that you make money, if they wish to preserve their chastity." (Surah 24:3 3-)

The Quoran on Women, taken from a book by ex-mulsim women, who are now under threat of death.

Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. 4:34

We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. 3:151

I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger. 8:12

Behold them, staring wide (in terror), the eyes of those who disbelieve! 21:97

“Men are in charge because Allah made men superior to women. Therefore righteous women are devoutly obedient to men. And if ye are afraid that a woman might be disobedient to you, first berate her, and then immure her, and then scourge [idrib] her.” — Qur’an 4:34 (The translation "scourge" is the choice of Pickthal and many other translators. This word could also be accurately translated "flog severely." The apologists who translate it "beat lightly" are not being faithful to Muhammad's words.)

Now TBH as I said before these words were written in medieval times, and I can't see the point of trying to defend them, change their meaning to you or others.. Thats not the point because these were written in a time where brutality and bloody battles and struggle were normal... And this was the same around the world... So why bother to sanitise them.. Unfortunately belief is an all consuming thing, most of the people I see Christians included if it wasn't classed as religion would be classed as delusional and psychotic behaviour... you see the people in various states of trance , chanting and


Pretty much all the evil human kind has ever seen has been in the name of religion. Thats a sad fact, and it all harks back to medieval times... And now its due to believers reading and following stuff that was written aeons ago...
Madness and looked at from any other point of view other than belief totally irratio nal

finalzero

Oh boy that lunch was awesome.. **** wrong thread

Alan C

Les.

Now show me an Atheist agenda, book, diktat or written word where these things are done in the name of atheism...

Diesel

There is some nonsense in what you reply to isn't there! The guise of respecting women is a such weak one.

Women can be raped (and have to keep quiet or risk get punished even more), disfigured, blinded (and the guy gets off scot-free as he can always mention adultery as a defence), walk three steps behind a man, stoned to death for alleged adultery, dressed in an oppressive way, not allowed on same buses as men, not allowed to talk to non family member males, denied education, not permitted to drive a car etc etc The list of subjugations and oppressions is long and I just cant condone it in the name of being liberal or respectful of other cultures. Other cultures can be wrong and I think it is right to say so when they are.

D

Link added in case you think I'm making this up - its called an 'epidemic' of abuse here Washington Times - Pakistani women victims of 'honor'

Here's another Blinded Woman Wins Eye-for-Eye Islamic Justice - World news | Newser

RA Dunk

******* ROFL!!

ive been following this thread with intrest and saying nothing, agreeing with every point you have made and was a bit disapointed to say the least when you said you had made your point, now your back with a vengance!

intresting thread 10/10 from me

EddScott

The eggy790 post is priceless.

Being upset by us heathen westerners stereo typing Muslims or whoever we are on about by using your own western stereo types - get a grip. You can throw carp at each other for single events all day long - beheading for farting in public, father at 13, rape and pillage etc etc.

I don't know who built the Taj Mahal but whoever it was he was handy with a chisel. The woman captured by the Taliban was obviously suffering from Stockholm syndrome and the swim suit model turning to Islam is american and nothing they do makes any sense in the first place.

Dedrater

This thread has had me pissing myself, some absolutely priceless posts, keep going eggy and luan.

Just for the record, the muslim women who wear burkha's, it not about female oppression, it's because they are ****ing ugly, I have had the displeasure of seeing one after she had taking it off, I thought she was a fvcking dragon!

banny sti

iTrader: (68)

Is it time for the closet racists to vent now

Bonehead

Spot on

I know it's a few pages back now, but that Arabic woman made one of the best speechs about Islam I've heard in a long time.

Luan Pra bang

Sura 5'54 reads
[5:54] O you who believe, if you revert from your religion, then GOD will substitute in your place people whom He loves and who love Him. They will be kind with the believers, stern with the disbelievers, and will strive in the cause of GOD without fear of any blame. Such is GOD's blessing; He bestows it upon whomever He wills. GOD is Bounteous, Omniscient.

Or another translation says
And lastly: "O you who believe! Whoever of you becomes a rebel against his Deen, (know that in his place) Allah will bring a people whom He loves and who love Him, humble towards the believers, harsh towards the disbelievers, striving in the way of Allah, and not fearing the blame of any blamer." [5:54]


THe real translation of this is

47:4 Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks until, when ye have routed them, then making fast of bonds; and afterward either grace or ransom till the war lay down its burdens. That (is the ordinance). And if Allah willed He could have punished them (without you) but (thus it is ordained) that He may try some of you by means of others. And those who are slain in the way of Allah, He rendereth not their actions vain.
or another translation

[47:4] If you encounter in war those who disbelieve, you may strike the necks. If you take them as captives you may set them free or ransom them, until the war ends. Had GOD willed, He could have granted you victory, without war. But He thus tests you by one another. As for those who get killed in the cause of GOD, He will never put their sacrifice to waste.

real translation

[5:38] The thief, male or female, you shall mark their hands as a punishment for their crime, and to serve as an example from GOD. GOD is Almighty, Most Wise.

real version
[4:20] If you wish to marry another wife, in place of your present wife, and you had given any of them a great deal, you shall not take back anything you had given her. Would you take it fraudulently, maliciously, and sinfully?



So every thing you posted is wrong. With regards to evil being done in the name of religion that is a classic error, 60 million died under Mao in the name of politics, the Holocaust was perpetrated in the name of politics, The death of almost half the population and complete destruction of history and science in cambodia was done in the name of politics and thats before we get to Vietnam Laos Rwanda Chile etc etc etc.

Alan C

No. Everything he posted was another translation by someone else. You seem to be missing the point that these multiple translation errors are the cause of the majority of the problems. No just between Islam and the West, but within the faith itself!

OK.. so politics killed a few more million that religion? That must make the whole problem better then. There's been uncounted millions murdered over time with despots and religious maniacs at the helm.... again, missing the point that religion has still killed in its' name.

And you still refuse to answer the basic questions of science... let's start simply.... what is the age of the Earth?

RA Dunk

who care`s, there bible is over 1000 years old everything in it is true and correct so they must never deviate from it, that`s all they know and are intrested in ...life get a?

with regards to this quote from eggy

Night Vision Donkey Sex Video

thats a bit rich considering your kind hump donkeys

The Zohan

LOL! Beastiality on SN - could be a first

RA Dunk

it is a wee bit beasty i suppose but not exactly **** lol

the running commentary had me in stitches...ohhh my donkey!

GC8WRX

I was just gonna leave it, then some complete tool goes and posts all that bollocks, its like a red rag to a bull!

GC8WRX

Eggy, or which ever **** wit posted with your account, do you realise what a prize t1t you look to anyone with an ounce of common sense?

Sort it out!

Luan Pra bang

NO what he quoted were not in any way shape or form other translations which is why I posted two differeing translations so people could compare. What he posted were massive lies created by right wing groups and the only one that is close to the money is the cutting off the hands of theives part which I acutally agree with in certain situations.


I cannot think of a single occasion in the last 100 years where religious killings were not really Politically based. Your few more million comment is a clear distortion of the the truth every significant crime against humanity in the last 60 years has been about Politics and land not religion.

Its Ironic that you claim I have not answered you questions when so far you have refusd to answer the majority of mine at every turn I have given factual evidence and you have responded with innacurate opinion. You still have not justified your comment about me being 'brainwashed'. It seems that scoobynetters will not let go of a certain stereotype about Muslims however much evidence there is to suggest that as a group they are just as diverse as the christian faiths. The answer to the age of the earth it is as old as time, based on relativity the earth was created during the big bang before then time did not exist so in reality evertything in the universe dates to the big bang.

GC8WRX

Luan, there is no other meaning to "when you meet unbelievers, smite their necks, then when you have made wide slaughter among them......." other than kill all none believers, i dont give a **** how you dress it up, thats what it means, you all claim its peaceful, but the stupid book clearly paints a different picture!

You cant polish a turd you know!!

Luan Pra bang

Your quote is wrong. the correct translations quite cearly says what to do if you meet unbelievers DURING A WAR OR BATTLE not what to do if you meet unbelievers full stop. If you cannot see the difference between the two things then perhaps you are not ready to venture into these discussions.
Your quotes are not mis translations they are deliberate lies read the proper translations.

Dedrater

Have a listen to this guy, straight to the point.

YouTube - The trouble with Islam

Bonehead

But Luan the problem is there are some who would take advantage of "DURING A WAR OR BATTLE" and say that Islam IS at war now. At war with the decadant West. At war with the infidels, etc etc

They use that justification for those idiots who thing that by blowing themselves up they're doing the work of the Allah

This always makes me laugh:
YouTube - Jeff Dunham - Walter on Suicide Bombers