Not Again...Afghanistan ''Friendly Fire'' !!!
27 August 2007, 11:40 PM
#31
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Edinburgh (ish)
Posts: 8,089
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It was originally published by the Soviet version of Sandhurst back in the early 1990's, and was republished by the USMC Officer training place (can't remember the name of it!) in the mid-90's with a companion book called "The other side of the mountain" which approached the issues the Mujahadin faced in a similar way (but not as good, nor as relevant, as the Soviet original).
You can order it on Amazon if you want a hardcopy, although there are plenty of copies floating around on P2P and torrent.
Only thing I'll suggest is try and get your head around Soviet map marking before/while your reading it, as the maps are essential for understanding and they're obviously very different from the NATO standards.
The most frustrating thing you'll find when reading it, the conclusions especially, is that the planners, or those civil servants who decide these things, have learnt nothing from the Soviet experience.
You can order it on Amazon if you want a hardcopy, although there are plenty of copies floating around on P2P and torrent.
Only thing I'll suggest is try and get your head around Soviet map marking before/while your reading it, as the maps are essential for understanding and they're obviously very different from the NATO standards.
The most frustrating thing you'll find when reading it, the conclusions especially, is that the planners, or those civil servants who decide these things, have learnt nothing from the Soviet experience.
28 August 2007, 10:26 AM
#33
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,615
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i say buy the poppy crop off them above the market rate instead of trying to burn it. that's a massive part of the problem, as you'd expect when outsiders try and shut down your sole, profitable livelihood - and as i understand it, cutting the heroin trail is an important part of our mission there.
when money talks, nobody walks. stick a better cash/asset return in the farmers and warlords' pockets, start running a public health and infrastructure programme that delivers heat, light, sanitation, medication and people will start talking to us instead of trying to kill us. can't be any more expensive than fighting.
common sense or wishful thinking? discuss.
when money talks, nobody walks. stick a better cash/asset return in the farmers and warlords' pockets, start running a public health and infrastructure programme that delivers heat, light, sanitation, medication and people will start talking to us instead of trying to kill us. can't be any more expensive than fighting.
common sense or wishful thinking? discuss.
28 August 2007, 12:31 PM
#34
Too right.
Many of us futher down the policy chain have been saying that they should license farmers to produce for mophine production. It seems to me that Goverment is more worried about upsetting the drugs companies than solving the issue. The world-wide price of morphine is high because practically the entire world supply is used up my N.America and Europe, leaving very little for the developing world.
It would solve the issue of afghan nacotics funding terrorism, provide massively needed financial boost to Afghanistan, remove influence from the Taleban, and provide much needed medicines for those in developing nations.
A win for everyone it seems.
Many of us futher down the policy chain have been saying that they should license farmers to produce for mophine production. It seems to me that Goverment is more worried about upsetting the drugs companies than solving the issue. The world-wide price of morphine is high because practically the entire world supply is used up my N.America and Europe, leaving very little for the developing world.
It would solve the issue of afghan nacotics funding terrorism, provide massively needed financial boost to Afghanistan, remove influence from the Taleban, and provide much needed medicines for those in developing nations.
A win for everyone it seems.
28 August 2007, 01:11 PM
#35
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Croydon - returned to democracy! Yay!!
Posts: 3,682
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Too right.
Many of us futher down the policy chain have been saying that they should license farmers to produce for mophine production. It seems to me that Goverment is more worried about upsetting the drugs companies than solving the issue. The world-wide price of morphine is high because practically the entire world supply is used up my N.America and Europe, leaving very little for the developing world.
It would solve the issue of afghan nacotics funding terrorism, provide massively needed financial boost to Afghanistan, remove influence from the Taleban, and provide much needed medicines for those in developing nations.
A win for everyone it seems.
Many of us futher down the policy chain have been saying that they should license farmers to produce for mophine production. It seems to me that Goverment is more worried about upsetting the drugs companies than solving the issue. The world-wide price of morphine is high because practically the entire world supply is used up my N.America and Europe, leaving very little for the developing world.
It would solve the issue of afghan nacotics funding terrorism, provide massively needed financial boost to Afghanistan, remove influence from the Taleban, and provide much needed medicines for those in developing nations.
A win for everyone it seems.
While the logic is utterly sound from a practical point of view, when we get into politics it's just never going to happen. After all, what's a few lives miles away compared to shareholder's dividends?
SB
28 August 2007, 01:53 PM
#36
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,615
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But how can it be a win for everyone when the drugs companies, who will certainly be providing a significant chunk of campaign/party funding on top of theior statutory payments, are going to take a hit?
While the logic is utterly sound from a practical point of view, when we get into politics it's just never going to happen. After all, what's a few lives miles away compared to shareholder's dividends?
SB
While the logic is utterly sound from a practical point of view, when we get into politics it's just never going to happen. After all, what's a few lives miles away compared to shareholder's dividends?
SB
why should drugs companies take the hit? they would be able to buy the raw product for refining and distribution at a discounted rate from the government, which will still be above the rate we would need to pay the afghans. so: afghans get significantly more money for the crop than before (hearts and minds); government gets taxpayers money back selling the raw material to the drugs companies; drugs companies can expand production and distribution which makes good long term business sense.
the real barrier here our the head-in-the-sand attitude to drugs. say 'heroin' and too many people just stop thinking. that's why the probability of common sense prevailing is slim to non-existent.
28 August 2007, 01:55 PM
#37
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,615
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Too right.
Many of us futher down the policy chain have been saying that they should license farmers to produce for mophine production. It seems to me that Goverment is more worried about upsetting the drugs companies than solving the issue. The world-wide price of morphine is high because practically the entire world supply is used up my N.America and Europe, leaving very little for the developing world.
It would solve the issue of afghan nacotics funding terrorism, provide massively needed financial boost to Afghanistan, remove influence from the Taleban, and provide much needed medicines for those in developing nations.
A win for everyone it seems.
Many of us futher down the policy chain have been saying that they should license farmers to produce for mophine production. It seems to me that Goverment is more worried about upsetting the drugs companies than solving the issue. The world-wide price of morphine is high because practically the entire world supply is used up my N.America and Europe, leaving very little for the developing world.
It would solve the issue of afghan nacotics funding terrorism, provide massively needed financial boost to Afghanistan, remove influence from the Taleban, and provide much needed medicines for those in developing nations.
A win for everyone it seems.
28 August 2007, 05:55 PM
#40
SB - I think what you meant to say was "screw the drugs companies!" 
This is where my few liberal opinions come out. For the greater good of the effect licensing Opium production in Afghanistan, which I fear is the only solution to an otherwise increasing narcotics problem there, I couldn't care less if that hits drug companies shareholders in the pocket. As it stands, many of their current practices are morally dubious at best, and, quite frankly, on par with genocide at worst.
This is where my few liberal opinions come out. For the greater good of the effect licensing Opium production in Afghanistan, which I fear is the only solution to an otherwise increasing narcotics problem there, I couldn't care less if that hits drug companies shareholders in the pocket. As it stands, many of their current practices are morally dubious at best, and, quite frankly, on par with genocide at worst.
28 August 2007, 07:32 PM
#41
Funding the poppy harvest is not stopping the "Blue on Blue" issue this thread is about.
As Prasius said earlier they may have been in a FPF situation. So close you can see their eyes sweating. A situation that is not very pleasent. It may have been planned as part of a withdrawal and sadly they miss timed it. Or, the target and own grid sent incorrectly in the heat of the battle.
Either way it's a tragedy and let's hope their families are well and looked after by one and all.
Prasius, I am currently on a VO task and it's f**king sh*te mate.
As Prasius said earlier they may have been in a FPF situation. So close you can see their eyes sweating. A situation that is not very pleasent. It may have been planned as part of a withdrawal and sadly they miss timed it. Or, the target and own grid sent incorrectly in the heat of the battle.
Either way it's a tragedy and let's hope their families are well and looked after by one and all.
Prasius, I am currently on a VO task and it's f**king sh*te mate.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post