Rolling Road session @ EA ~ Sunday 28th October
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From: "Engineering Perfection in Essex"
This equipment should be used regardless.
IMO its the opperators moral resposibility that if the car is detting on the rollers how is he to know to take his foot off the gas??
they clearly dont use the equipment as it would take another 5 min or so fitting the bits to each car and then they wouldnt make as much money as they would have 1 or 2 less slots
Id imagine if Zak had headphones on they were his own cans.
IMO its the opperators moral resposibility that if the car is detting on the rollers how is he to know to take his foot off the gas??
they clearly dont use the equipment as it would take another 5 min or so fitting the bits to each car and then they wouldnt make as much money as they would have 1 or 2 less slots
Id imagine if Zak had headphones on they were his own cans.
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From: R.I.P. R.A. :(
I guess if you asked EA would have no issues with connecting cans?
Most cars had boost gauges anyway I guess.....
You couldn't run this type of event if you wanted this type of monitoring in the time allowed.
Most cars had boost gauges anyway I guess.....
You couldn't run this type of event if you wanted this type of monitoring in the time allowed.
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From: "Engineering Perfection in Essex"
This is the very reason people like EA get you to sign a disclaimer so you have no leg to stand on. Put it this way, if i had a rolling road, every car would be check prior to running. The last thing i want is a car sh1tting itself there .
Its embarassing and messy at the very least!
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From: And there was my scoob gone it was..
Im also supprised Si's motor went the way it did.
Did the opperators use the det cans, wideband and a remote boost gauge?
If so theres no reason why Simons motor would still not be in one piece.
The only other way that motor could poo itself it it was unmonitored is basic component failure.
Component failure is highly unlikely and is more usually a result as opposed to a cause.
Id like to strip Si's engine for myself to be honest.
Did the opperators use the det cans, wideband and a remote boost gauge?
If so theres no reason why Simons motor would still not be in one piece.
The only other way that motor could poo itself it it was unmonitored is basic component failure.
Component failure is highly unlikely and is more usually a result as opposed to a cause.
Id like to strip Si's engine for myself to be honest.
Should be giving zak the go ahead this week to do what needs to be done.
Cheers for everybodys coments......Watch this space.
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From: R.I.P. R.A. :(
This equipment should be used regardless.
IMO its the opperators moral resposibility that if the car is detting on the rollers how is he to know to take his foot off the gas??
they clearly dont use the equipment as it would take another 5 min or so fitting the bits to each car and then they wouldnt make as much money as they would have 1 or 2 less slots
Id imagine if Zak had headphones on they were his own cans.
IMO its the opperators moral resposibility that if the car is detting on the rollers how is he to know to take his foot off the gas??
they clearly dont use the equipment as it would take another 5 min or so fitting the bits to each car and then they wouldnt make as much money as they would have 1 or 2 less slots
Id imagine if Zak had headphones on they were his own cans.
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From: FPMSL It's only a FocaRSe !!!
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From: "Engineering Perfection in Essex"
If you have that many people wanting to attend then limit the numbers.
This is basic tuning equipment that i feel should be used at any rolling road.
Not just EA!
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From: R.I.P. R.A. :(
But everything regarding engine tuning is a risk....
We don't drive around using Det cans etc.....
Anyway, unfortunitely this could have happened at any time.....
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From: "Engineering Perfection in Essex"
Engine tuning is minimal risk at that level if done properly.
People dont drive around with det cans hense the have a knock link or similar det sensor.
Could of happened at any time yes, however the loading caused by a rolling road is far more than any car will see on the road.
If the car was monitored properly i feel this may have been avoided quite easily.
but when paying to just get a power run then time would be an issue and the costs wouldn't be as low as they are.
Also in their defence it is just a blast up to red line and back which is nothing more than most of us do when on the road (some more often than not).
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From: "Engineering Perfection in Essex"
Only way you could replicate that load on the road would be to drive up a very very steep incline at full throttle with afully laidened car. Even then you probably would be close.
Out of interest does anyone here know how a "load cell" Dynometer works?
Out of interest does anyone here know how a "load cell" Dynometer works?
maybe your right, although maybe if you had 5 up and you had the extra weight extra strain, then maybe it would be similar, i'm no expert on RR.
Either way we can all speculate on what happened to Simon's car. Sadly the outcome is the same. I hope Simon gets to walk away from this with the same dignity and poise that he showed on the day and all credit to him for it. And maybe he ends up with something better as a result!
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From: "Engineering Perfection in Essex"
[quote=essexboy30;7368755]yeah see that after the post.....
maybe your right, although maybe if you had 5 up and you had the extra weight extra strain, then maybe it would be similar, i'm no expert on RR.
Either way we can all speculate on what happened to Simon's car. Sadly the outcome is the same. I hope Simon gets to walk away from this with the same dignity and poise that he showed on the day and all credit to him for it. And maybe he ends up with something better as a result![/quote]
Totally agree...
maybe your right, although maybe if you had 5 up and you had the extra weight extra strain, then maybe it would be similar, i'm no expert on RR.
Either way we can all speculate on what happened to Simon's car. Sadly the outcome is the same. I hope Simon gets to walk away from this with the same dignity and poise that he showed on the day and all credit to him for it. And maybe he ends up with something better as a result![/quote]
Totally agree...
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Has there been a post vaped, as i cannot see what started frayz off, on this tact?
I was under the impression that for this sort of rolling road day, the rollers are operated using the inertia of the rollers as the load against the engine, usually a power run up the rpm, then a free wheel to halt to calc the trans losses.
I may be wrong, but i thought the conditions frayz describes only occur when running the rollers in a constant load mode, whereby an eddy current is passed through the load cell, to create a greater load?
(Not sure if i remember the physics correctly, it's been a while).
I was under the impression that for this sort of rolling road day, the rollers are operated using the inertia of the rollers as the load against the engine, usually a power run up the rpm, then a free wheel to halt to calc the trans losses.
I may be wrong, but i thought the conditions frayz describes only occur when running the rollers in a constant load mode, whereby an eddy current is passed through the load cell, to create a greater load?
(Not sure if i remember the physics correctly, it's been a while).
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From: "Engineering Perfection in Essex"
Cant se any vaped ones Neil.
ah, looked again and im sure there is one or 2 missing now?
ah, looked again and im sure there is one or 2 missing now?
Last edited by frayz; Oct 29, 2007 at 10:04 PM. Reason: found em
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From: Going round in circles in a Mini
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From: "Engineering Perfection in Essex"
Neil,
Basically i was saying that maybe Simons engine failure could have been avoided by the correct monitoring from EA when on the rollers.
They did not use any det cans, boost gauges or AFR monitering equipment. This would of taken 5 min tops to hook up to peoples carse before runs. I feel it is bad service not to carry out the runs correctly and if that mean that not all cars could of run then the numbers for the day should of been limited.
Others said that Simons failure would of happened on the road anyway and i was saying i didnt agree as the forces created by a set of rollers far exceed that on the road.
If there was a possible boost spike, lean condition or det issue it would of been picked up immediately had the runs been conducted properly with the proper basic tuning equipment.
...
Basically me starting an arguement as usual
Basically i was saying that maybe Simons engine failure could have been avoided by the correct monitoring from EA when on the rollers.
They did not use any det cans, boost gauges or AFR monitering equipment. This would of taken 5 min tops to hook up to peoples carse before runs. I feel it is bad service not to carry out the runs correctly and if that mean that not all cars could of run then the numbers for the day should of been limited.
Others said that Simons failure would of happened on the road anyway and i was saying i didnt agree as the forces created by a set of rollers far exceed that on the road.
If there was a possible boost spike, lean condition or det issue it would of been picked up immediately had the runs been conducted properly with the proper basic tuning equipment.
...
Basically me starting an arguement as usual
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From: "Engineering Perfection in Essex"
Yep 
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From: Going round in circles in a Mini
Frayz's posts where even more forthright than normal (hard to believe I know), therefore I also assumed that something must have prompted him, maybe a suggestion at what might have been at fault?
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From: R.I.P. R.A. :(
I just think Frayz's comments are a bit of a cheap shot.....
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From: "Engineering Perfection in Essex"
How do you work that out. All of my comments are backed up with a reasoning as to why i make them.
What is there to be cheap about?
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