Rolling Road session @ EA ~ Sunday 28th October
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From: "Engineering Perfection in Essex"
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From: You only live ONCE But if you do it right >>>>> ONCE is enough
Well never mind all these bean cans, knockerometers & spiffle connectors.
I ain't going on again unless they wrap copious amounts of cotton wool round my baby.
Mark
I ain't going on again unless they wrap copious amounts of cotton wool round my baby.
Mark
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From: MSOC..........middlesex subaru owners club
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From: R.I.P. R.A. :(
As many other people have already said on this thread.... Not many dyno days are run under the conditions you described.....
Pointing fingers at EA for failing to do their job.... hmmm they have been running a rather successful business for sometime now....
Pointing fingers at EA for failing to do their job.... hmmm they have been running a rather successful business for sometime now....
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From: "Engineering Perfection in Essex"
I dont care who or what EA do, ive nothing to gain by pointing any fingers at them. I think it was conducted wrongly and the results are shown.
As for sucessful, thats in your opinion. There are many people regarded as succesful but some of the stuff ive seen will throw that lot way out of the water.
What have i do gain by saying i dont agree with what they did?
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From: R.I.P. R.A. :(
I dont care who or what EA do, ive nothing to gain by pointing any fingers at them. I think it was conducted wrongly and the results are shown.
As for sucessful, thats in your opinion. There are many people regarded as succesful but some of the stuff ive seen will throw that lot way out of the water.
What have i do gain by saying i dont agree with what they did?
As for sucessful, thats in your opinion. There are many people regarded as succesful but some of the stuff ive seen will throw that lot way out of the water.
What have i do gain by saying i dont agree with what they did?
I guess I'm just not as used to your comments as some people on here?
I said "successful" because my opinion any business that stays afloat for that amount of time must be doing something right and deserves some respect...
I'm not sure "what you've seen"? but how can you be sure your experience is so superior?
ditto, apparently its not good for the diff though ?FWIW, to calm my OCD I asked Zak to sit in for my run.
Although the torque figures were perhaps distorted, 16% above Zaks road dyno seems to be an accurate prediction from EA's rollers so I probably wouldn't feel the need to run again.
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From: "Engineering Perfection in Essex"
I didn't say you had anything to gain....
I guess I'm just not as used to your comments as some people on here?
I said "successful" because my opinion any business that stays afloat for that amount of time must be doing something right and deserves some respect...
I'm not sure "what you've seen"? but how can you be sure your experience is so superior?
I guess I'm just not as used to your comments as some people on here?
I said "successful" because my opinion any business that stays afloat for that amount of time must be doing something right and deserves some respect...
I'm not sure "what you've seen"? but how can you be sure your experience is so superior?
I have said i didnt agree with what they did and you have taken offense because you set the day up. I thought you were bigger than that.
Respect is earnt, and not demanded not by them or anyone.
What difference is it going to make if a 23 year old engine builder says he disagrees with a "so called" tuning companies proceedures?
So why does it bother you so much what i think if im so un-superior?
Neil,
Basically i was saying that maybe Simons engine failure could have been avoided by the correct monitoring from EA when on the rollers.
They did not use any det cans, boost gauges or AFR monitering equipment. This would of taken 5 min tops to hook up to peoples carse before runs. I feel it is bad service not to carry out the runs correctly and if that mean that not all cars could of run then the numbers for the day should of been limited.
Others said that Simons failure would of happened on the road anyway and i was saying i didnt agree as the forces created by a set of rollers far exceed that on the road.
If there was a possible boost spike, lean condition or det issue it would of been picked up immediately had the runs been conducted properly with the proper basic tuning equipment.
...
Basically me starting an arguement as usual
Basically i was saying that maybe Simons engine failure could have been avoided by the correct monitoring from EA when on the rollers.
They did not use any det cans, boost gauges or AFR monitering equipment. This would of taken 5 min tops to hook up to peoples carse before runs. I feel it is bad service not to carry out the runs correctly and if that mean that not all cars could of run then the numbers for the day should of been limited.
Others said that Simons failure would of happened on the road anyway and i was saying i didnt agree as the forces created by a set of rollers far exceed that on the road.
If there was a possible boost spike, lean condition or det issue it would of been picked up immediately had the runs been conducted properly with the proper basic tuning equipment.
...
Basically me starting an arguement as usual
have been to other rr group days at differnt rollers for the same price, and yes they took longer, but they used all the bits and bits, exhaust extraction, det cans etc.
good luck with you car simon, hope you get it fixed soon
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From: Going round in circles in a Mini
Neil,
Basically i was saying that maybe Simons engine failure could have been avoided by the correct monitoring from EA when on the rollers.
They did not use any det cans, boost gauges or AFR monitering equipment. This would of taken 5 min tops to hook up to peoples carse before runs. I feel it is bad service not to carry out the runs correctly and if that mean that not all cars could of run then the numbers for the day should of been limited.
Others said that Simons failure would of happened on the road anyway and i was saying i didnt agree as the forces created by a set of rollers far exceed that on the road.
If there was a possible boost spike, lean condition or det issue it would of been picked up immediately had the runs been conducted properly with the proper basic tuning equipment.
...
Basically me starting an arguement as usual
Basically i was saying that maybe Simons engine failure could have been avoided by the correct monitoring from EA when on the rollers.
They did not use any det cans, boost gauges or AFR monitering equipment. This would of taken 5 min tops to hook up to peoples carse before runs. I feel it is bad service not to carry out the runs correctly and if that mean that not all cars could of run then the numbers for the day should of been limited.
Others said that Simons failure would of happened on the road anyway and i was saying i didnt agree as the forces created by a set of rollers far exceed that on the road.
If there was a possible boost spike, lean condition or det issue it would of been picked up immediately had the runs been conducted properly with the proper basic tuning equipment.
...
Basically me starting an arguement as usual
Are you certain that the rollers where operated in a constant load condition, rather than an inertia?
if constant load then your comments are absolutely correct, if in inertia, then this will have presented the engine with very similar loads to normal road use, and therefore it is more reasonable to not have the same level of monitoring.
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From: "Engineering Perfection in Essex"
I know it has been said that you could start an argument in an empty room, but that is not what i was saying.
Are you certain that the rollers where operated in a constant load condition, rather than an inertia?
if constant load then your comments are absolutely correct, if in inertia, then this will have presented the engine with very similar loads to normal road use, and therefore it is more reasonable to not have the same level of monitoring.
Are you certain that the rollers where operated in a constant load condition, rather than an inertia?
if constant load then your comments are absolutely correct, if in inertia, then this will have presented the engine with very similar loads to normal road use, and therefore it is more reasonable to not have the same level of monitoring.
However i am pretty sure it will have been run like this as the rollers are of load cell design.
Inertia dynos use a known mass of fixed value and nothing else.
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From: R.I.P. R.A. :(
Where did i say my experiance was superior?? I said i know what i have seen.
I have said i didnt agree with what they did and you have taken offense because you set the day up. I thought you were bigger than that.
Respect is earnt, and not demanded not by them or anyone.
What difference is it going to make if a 23 year old engine builder says he disagrees with a "so called" tuning companies proceedures?
So why does it bother you so much what i think if im so un-superior?
I have said i didnt agree with what they did and you have taken offense because you set the day up. I thought you were bigger than that.
Respect is earnt, and not demanded not by them or anyone.
What difference is it going to make if a 23 year old engine builder says he disagrees with a "so called" tuning companies proceedures?
So why does it bother you so much what i think if im so un-superior?
Like you mate, I don't care what people think of me.....
I disagree with what you have said, that's all ........
You have your opinion and I have mine.
We've all seen things.... I've been working for Ford since 1988, trust me you see a lot of things in that time
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From: "Engineering Perfection in Essex"
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From: R.I.P. R.A. :(
sort of know what you are saying, my eyes starting to sting as some points from the exhaust fumes.
have been to other rr group days at differnt rollers for the same price, and yes they took longer, but they used all the bits and bits, exhaust extraction, det cans etc.
good luck with you car simon, hope you get it fixed soon
have been to other rr group days at differnt rollers for the same price, and yes they took longer, but they used all the bits and bits, exhaust extraction, det cans etc.
good luck with you car simon, hope you get it fixed soon
I must say frayz you are a fighter!
When we was having our little talk “let's say” about me not being happy with my BHP out come i thought you was just having a go at me but now i see it's just your a bit blunt and have a strong opinion!
I think what happens here a lot is every one has the own opinion and seems to think others should have the same as there’s?!
Maybe we should all start using the "IMOA" frays a bit more and this will stop the fights before everyone starts disliking each other?
"Waits for someone to have a go at me"!!!
When we was having our little talk “let's say” about me not being happy with my BHP out come i thought you was just having a go at me but now i see it's just your a bit blunt and have a strong opinion!
I think what happens here a lot is every one has the own opinion and seems to think others should have the same as there’s?!
Maybe we should all start using the "IMOA" frays a bit more and this will stop the fights before everyone starts disliking each other?
"Waits for someone to have a go at me"!!!
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From: Going round in circles in a Mini
Have just checked, EA have a Hofmann Dynatest, this according to the Hafmann site is an eddy current braked dyno, and therefore as Fayz suggests capable of applying a load far greater than normally seen.
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From: "Engineering Perfection in Essex"
Going 4 400bhp...
Please do not take anything i say here personally. I would say anything i say here to someones face without worry too.
I have no tact and speak my mind.. eventually you get used to it.
Last edited by frayz; Oct 29, 2007 at 11:55 PM.
Just when people first get a taste of it, it does not come over very nice!
imo of cause
Ill be starting a Thread in your name soon anyway!
It will be called "Frayz iv now got my 300bhp and im happy" Look out for that one
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From: "Engineering Perfection in Essex"
Change it to...
"Frayz, i was happy anyway.But now i have the 300bhp i paid for... well this piece of paper says so anyway"
All joking aside, best of luck with it
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From: Going round in circles in a Mini
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From: R.I.P. R.A. :(
Where did i say my experiance was superior?? I said i know what i have seen.
I have said i didnt agree with what they did and you have taken offense because you set the day up. I thought you were bigger than that.
Respect is earnt, and not demanded not by them or anyone.
What difference is it going to make if a 23 year old engine builder says he disagrees with a "so called" tuning companies proceedures?
So why does it bother you so much what i think if im so un-superior?
I have said i didnt agree with what they did and you have taken offense because you set the day up. I thought you were bigger than that.
Respect is earnt, and not demanded not by them or anyone.
What difference is it going to make if a 23 year old engine builder says he disagrees with a "so called" tuning companies proceedures?
So why does it bother you so much what i think if im so un-superior?
I give respect from the start and it's up to you to loose it.....
Stick it on mate no probs.. All part of the fun..
I' like to thank everyone who helped, with a big thankyou to mark for sorting out transport home. I cannot thankyou enough. ESC at its best.
As i said when 1 door shuts another 1 opens.........with a 2.5 in its hands.
Big thanks for zak for opening up to put the car in.
Cookie what spares have you got mate......
All part of the fun..I' like to thank everyone who helped, with a big thankyou to mark for sorting out transport home. I cannot thankyou enough.
ESC at its best.As i said when 1 door shuts another 1 opens.........with a 2.5 in its hands.
Big thanks for zak for opening up to put the car in.
Cookie what spares have you got mate......
I have a complete WRX engine, that needs head gasket changing, your welcome to it, for not a lot
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From: Going round in circles in a Mini
Neil,
Basically i was saying that maybe Simons engine failure could have been avoided by the correct monitoring from EA when on the rollers.
They did not use any det cans, boost gauges or AFR monitering equipment. This would of taken 5 min tops to hook up to peoples carse before runs. I feel it is bad service not to carry out the runs correctly and if that mean that not all cars could of run then the numbers for the day should of been limited.
Others said that Simons failure would of happened on the road anyway and i was saying i didnt agree as the forces created by a set of rollers far exceed that on the road.
If there was a possible boost spike, lean condition or det issue it would of been picked up immediately had the runs been conducted properly with the proper basic tuning equipment.
...
Basically me starting an arguement as usual
Basically i was saying that maybe Simons engine failure could have been avoided by the correct monitoring from EA when on the rollers.
They did not use any det cans, boost gauges or AFR monitering equipment. This would of taken 5 min tops to hook up to peoples carse before runs. I feel it is bad service not to carry out the runs correctly and if that mean that not all cars could of run then the numbers for the day should of been limited.
Others said that Simons failure would of happened on the road anyway and i was saying i didnt agree as the forces created by a set of rollers far exceed that on the road.
If there was a possible boost spike, lean condition or det issue it would of been picked up immediately had the runs been conducted properly with the proper basic tuning equipment.
...
Basically me starting an arguement as usual
Frayz,
Don't wish to go over ground already covered but this has got me a bit worried (Bored sitting on a train today!).
Are you saying that after a car has been mapped on the road, that there are conditions that it maybe will not cope with?
In all the mapping sessions I have had, these have been carried out with just myself and the mapper (I have used 2 different mappers), on relatively flat roads.
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From: FPMSL It's only a FocaRSe !!!
You are 100% Correct
I Certainly have not removed any posts & i can see all other deleted posts as well & NO other user has deleted any posts either
I Have gone back to pg 24 only Just after the results were posted
I Hope this clears any confusion
Tiny
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From: "Engineering Perfection in Essex"
Frayz,
Don't wish to go over ground already covered but this has got me a bit worried (Bored sitting on a train today!).
Are you saying that after a car has been mapped on the road, that there are conditions that it maybe will not cope with?
In all the mapping sessions I have had, these have been carried out with just myself and the mapper (I have used 2 different mappers), on relatively flat roads.
Don't wish to go over ground already covered but this has got me a bit worried (Bored sitting on a train today!).
Are you saying that after a car has been mapped on the road, that there are conditions that it maybe will not cope with?
In all the mapping sessions I have had, these have been carried out with just myself and the mapper (I have used 2 different mappers), on relatively flat roads.
If a car has been mapped correctly. The mapper will factor in a marging of safety. So in theory the car should cope with the extra load without a problem. The car will never be mapped for a customer at 10/10ths.
99.9% of the time the margin of safety is quite a large one. Remember that the cars are mapped for the average joe to drive how they please. So all conditions have to be catered for.
However, if a problem is going to arrise there is a very good chance it will arrise whilst subject to the hard use they see on the rollers.
Going back to Simons car.
He may very well of had a sensor going down, slightly blocked injector, air leak or anything that would not show under normal driving conditions.
Not to mention the airflow from a large industrail fan can never replicate that from driving on the open roads. The cars are doing approx 100mph on the rollers. I can almost say for certain there is not 100mph wind coming out of the cooling fan.
The fact is, these "possible issues" were not spotted when the car was subject to the dyno run. These issues could easilly have been if the said equipment was used.
Hope that helps