Dracoro

Also adding bhp needn't add weight to the engine.

Adding torque does (either in displacement or FI).

rabbos

A new ECU map can add torque without adding weight, but admittedly its difficult for NA engines.

Devildog

I wonder if people are missing the point a bit, no doubt partially as a result of the magazines complaining that 0-60 in 6.6 seconds for a front wheel drive car isn't quick enough.

The type R experience was never about making the fastest car. It was the whole driving experience.

Honda's mistake here isn't in giving the market a CTR that's not fast enough, its mistake is giving the market a CTR that is not really a type R.

Ford correctly calls its hot focus an ST. Becasue its not an RS and never will be.

Honda should have called the CTR (both the new ones and the last generation) a Civic Vti. And made them slightly more compliant.

Then it should have made a stripped out, no compromise Type R, arguably as last seen in the Integra DC2, with thin glass, less sound deadening, no silly extras, light alloy suspension components, hard suspension, light wheels (and not necessarily big fat ones), mechanical limited slip diff and no electronic aids like ASC, TCS, yada, yada, yada except ABS. Oh, and proper hydraulic PAS - none of this crap electric feel free rubbish that we get now.

Even allowing for heavier PAS, that lot could save 200kg.

And then charged £15,995 for it.

It wouldn't have mattered that it wasn't the fastest of its competitors. Because it would, quite simply, be the best to drive.

Having said all that, I'd still chose a CTR over anything from Ford, Vauxhall, or VW regardless of how much faster they were in a straight line.

lestippp

Bravo, well said, ain't that the truth. Type R is a better marque to sit in than the others but the VXR, ST, etc have really all become great machines for the money.

rabbos

The problem is only driving enthusiasts appreciate a special, lightened more hardcore version and we are in the minority of people who buy the cars. The rest of customers like to be able to say in the pub that they have the most power, best 0-60 etc even though that means little these days in how a car 'feels'

The previous CTR sold many times the expected volume and hence when the customer feedback comes in more comfort and gadgets are at the top of the list. This results in a softening of the brands type R, RS etc over time.

Still I don't complain as we have a better choice of hot hatches currently than we have had for ages!

Dream Weaver

I think Honda just changed their target market with the new CTR, probably aiming for customers like myself rather than the younger breed. I'm tired of stripped out racers and want some comfort (hence I never use the 205 which would whip the CTR and the 325i ), but I still want the handling prowess with the decent power - FWD with more than 200bhp/ton is pointless as I can vouch - the new CTR offers performance with finesse.

It really appeals to me, and I would buy one without hesitation as the past 4 months in the 5 door 2.2 CTDi version that we have now have been excellent, apart from the **** in the 320 rear ending us last weekend, though the Civic stood up to that very well

Exterior isn't to everyone's taste, but I love being inside the thing, and thats where all the time is spent.

I'll trade ours in in 3 years and probably go for the CTR, or they may have brought out the RR version then, and I'll be into my midlife crisis at that time

Cars aren't about who has the last BHP, or who is quickest according to "Evo", and you should never base a buying decision purely on figures. My own project 205 is a case in point - it was more fun when it had 160bhp than it is now at over 200bhp, weighing in at 900kg. Its now quicker than most modern hatches, but its not more appealing than it was even back at 130bhp as std.

H4RDY-P1

iTrader: (46)

I used to have a 2004 ctr and now have a P1 after owning a 2006 focus st for 3 months !!,between the ctr and P1, and in march peter brooks honda invited me to test drive the new trpe R so off i went, and imho i was really dissappointed with the raw performance of the new model,i really liked the car, looks very smart and far better interia,but for me it felt lazy and not like the old hard core type R,maybee this is due to owning the P1 now,but no even our lass said it felt really SLOW!!!!and yes she can drive!!

Dream Weaver

Slow in what sense though? Against a P1 maybe, against a 1 litre Fiesta I doubt it.