ex-webby

I think suggesting that a Subaru engine WILL fail, based on the fact that previous engine versions have failed is a bit over the top.

I have spoken to a number of people in Subaru and Prodrive, also at least 2 engine builders (that repair these engines (of the classic variety) day in day out) and whilst 2 people said the latest newage engines are bullet proof , the other 2 had not known of many (we are talking a handful here) that have let go.

Obviously I am not saying they wont have issues.... that would be stupid, but these newage engines seem to be more responsive and reliable to mods without a doubt..... hook that up with the 6sp box and you have a pretty reliable platform.... certainly as reliable as what you would expect any other kind of engine to be.

Regards,
Shaun.

ex-webby

John,

Looking at the power graph from a 380bhp EVO Vs an older and earlier stage of tune of my Spec C on the same rollers, do show the some differences as you quite rightly point out.





My plot was taken at a stage that in reality is not comparable to the EVO WRC380 conversion, but a run made now certianly would be as power levels have now reached this 380bhp mark along with increases in torque.

Bearing this in mind, I doubt that the higher RPM torque figures would actually be that different tbh (comparing apples with apples). One area that I certainly felt (after driving a modified EVO) which is backed up by the graphs, is that the Twin Scroll Scoob provides much more torque earlier on. The EVO in comparison, seems to deliver rather progressively. Have you found this?

Regards,
Shaun.

john banks

The gearing is too different to compare and the charts are not plotted with "proper" coastdown runs. 4th gear on a Spec C is I think longer than 3rd gear on the IX. This does affect the spool up.

I don't have a "flywheel" curve from my car at WRC, just WHP. But the numbers read off the flywheel curve at Dastek (which read 20 BHP and 55 lbft lower than WRC on the same tune) show the following in 4th gear with a bit more tuning (but still airbox, 3" exhaust, remap, boost controller).. trouble is the low down flywheel figures are again not comparable:
2500 92
3000 147
3500 232
4000 270
4500 310
5000 322
5500 358
6000 380
6500 385
7000 395
With 399 at 6870 RPM

Depending on how you cook the figures it changes the answer. The only difference for me was that the Evo will do about 400BHP even on conservative rollers on stock turbo. Have to say a tuned 2.5 Scooby/20G is better than them all though low down.

john banks

I seriously doubt any of these 2.0s are really at/near or over 400 lbft unless they run 2.0 bar. This was the biggest difference between the WRC rollers and Dastek. Look at some of the plots in my collection and how little the loss is from flywheel to wheels. http://images.fotopic.net/?id=28808472 and http://john824.fotopic.net/c938588.html
Dynos really are dubious.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Well the crank IS different on the twin scroll version
The biggest point on the JDM cars (especially classics) is that on the v5/6 cars the map had a weak spot, this caused det if run on the incorrect fuel grade.
The newer JDM STi's have a considerably better ecu and map and can deal with things like det much better than their earlier counterparts, though the people you have spoken too probably have done lots of work on the classics engine, and reallistically thats like comparing an evo 3 engine against an STi 12 which has improved considerably over the years, so the evo3 is going to fail more often.
As ive stated, i know of not 1 JDM STi twin scroll engine that has failed, if you know of any then please let us know though i do remember that guy with the evo7 who added nos to his car and with less than 350bhp (inc nos) it blew the engine to pieces, does that count?

Tony

ex-webby

John,

Yep I whole heartedly agree about the torque figures.

Makes interesting reading though..... especially for the pup!

Regards,
Shaun.

john banks

I thought the new STIs have cross drilled cranks. I think the EJ207 is a strong engine, the EJ257 is the one I wanted but as I say the doomsayers put me off saying it would break pistons, hence the Evo.

ex-webby

Absolutely...... the main reason why I always stick with my figures based at PowerStation as if anything they are conservative.

Regards,
Shaun.

ScoobEvo

Sorry to have upset some of the more friendly people on here!

This post is not a wind up.....what would be the point in that FFS?

I love my C in every way and I'n not used to getting gubbed.....that's all!

Hope that's OK with everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

alloy

Wind Up

ex-webby

Regardless of what we own, there is always a better car and driver out there... so in reality it makes no odd's.

As I was once told.... "If you want a fast car, buy one that is fast to begin with". Unfortunately, I am unable to stretch to a SLR this week.

Regards,
Shaun.

subarustel

dark blue mark

my mates fogs were on b/c there was fog that night

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

but not in the local area

The Fixer

OK, fair comment, I'll change the "WILL" to a light hearted "probably will"

The Fixer

That makes them more desirable for a start

subarustel

not throwing petrol in the fire or anything

i love scoobys, but im goin evo b/c:

1. love the ej207 b/c it revs higher than a 205 thus can run a laggy turbo and still show EXCELLENT power.

but it's only available in import form thus warranty and insurance issues. so not 4 me.

2. jus sold my ej205 and fancy a change especially after 4 scoobys this is def my favourite that i have owned though. and going 20g is an option but not many people want cars that have too many mods, so when its time to sell, it takes longer.

i found this out after i sold my type r with sz49 turbo and built block btw.

3. ej257 gives big turbo's the air they need to spool but the rev range is shorter due 2 only 4 cylinders running thinner walls (correct me if im wrong) thus 2.5 block.?

4. evo 9 weighs 70 kilo's less than my sti 8, handles better (only just) though the subaru's r more fun.:bigsmiles: and the evo 9 can achieve 435 bhp on standard turbo and the only other mods r fmic, induction kit, fuel pump (no there not uprated on evo 9, i remember some1 questioning this earlier) exhaust and map.

oh and avcr or hks evc 5 boost controller.

5. iirc the gearing on an evo could give a top speed of 182 very easily compared 2 a scooby (ask tony papa boost *** from extreme, and i have also tested an mr 340 with only mod 2 b 3" tbe which i pulled over 180 mph with 2 passengers. dont know how much over as i was off the speedo.lol)

6. my ralliart md who i wont name will warranty my evo even with the mods i plan, which is more than i can say 4 a few subaru dealers that i know, giving me **** about an exhaust, imagine they'd seen my phat turbo and ecutek.

john banks

I'm not bothering to refit my original Evo IX pump to find out, but on the US models it is a different part number and the tuners there are not changing them for basic mods.

Dynoflash US said, "Guys - it seems they have UPGRADED the fuel pumps in the IX also

The Walbro 255 made less of a difference than usual with the pump upgrade

I would say the stock pump is about a 230 lph now "

He'd just run the stock turbo on high octane fuel at 24.5 PSI.

subarustel

run 4 how long? mayb 6 min's. lol.

not debating, i thought the evo 9 pump woz uprated also, but after a bit of mappin on a evo 9 the pump was being overworked, no sorry just about stable at 380.2 bhp. maybe earlier pumps could only handle between 350 - 365 bhp

i think donald from ware garage would confirm this, but dont tell him i told u.

john banks

They are so cheap to change though and at least done through the access panels on the top of the tank like the Subarus on the Evo VII onwards.

subarustel

i hope its as easy 2 change as my sti 8. i'll let u no when i finally get my evo 9 AND get a few things done 2 it.

whats the spec of your 9 john??? thats if u want 2 tell.

-steve

john banks

I received it with 3" exhaust, panel filter, fuel pump, remap and HKS EVC5, claimed 397 BHP. It did 380 BHP on my local rollers that I could compare with my old Scooby figures. With a bit of tweakage it did 399 BHP. I've removed the EVC5, put on an AVC-R and got the boost much better - ie 1.5 bar holding at the top. Got the wideband on a tail pipe insert. TurboXS knocklite I'm fitting tomorrow. Got a stock JDM GSR ECU to play with and I'll remap that one and keep the already mapped one I have. OBD-II logger and APS CAK arriving soon too. Not much to do after that, maybe get a second set of wheels and stick something like Michelin Pilot Sports on there, the A046 are a bit skittish in the wet and I don't think they'll suit the Scottish winter. Have a set of Toyo R888s on 18s and they are simply astonishing in the dry, but noisy.

subarustel

i have a trick up my sleeve. hahaha

i already have an avcr

i already have a 3" cat back, which has been custom made by ian at hayward, and its very very straight,

no downpipe/decat as of yet only b/c not sure if i want a 3 or 3.5 "

fuel pump is cheap like u said, might grab a tomei 1 if they fit and are any good. or walpro.

all that leaves is a fmic bigger than stock (not sure which 1 yet)

and a map. any recomendations would be nice. on the map and fmic

thread hijacker i am.

john banks

3" is fine. Note the turbo elbow is smaller than this, but I'm not bothering to change it, can't be more restrictive than the exhaust housing itself.

Stock intercooler is fine - I've thermocouple tested the charge temps at this power level. Most of the marketing hype is to sell you stuff you don't need.

Stick to Walbro, everyone knows them and their characteristics and they seem reliable.

There is a nice thing holding me back going silly beyond the stock turbo - there are no sensible twin scroll original frame turbo upgrades on the Evo, so to gain 50-100 BHP you lose far more than that in terms of response, and you also start to trash the AYC if you have it on your model.

So the next stage would be rear diff, gearbox, big Garrett, injectors, stroker = £££££ and a less reliable road car. Then money thrown at the chassis and brakes and you end up with a point and squirt car than a sweet handling balanced thing. Did all that on the Subaru and ruined it as a road car and it broke a lot.

subarustel

i didnt wanna go further than 400 bhp on my soon 2 b evo 9 or much further than 400, i wont change the turbo on mine jus the bits around it, i figure if i overwork the turbo a little its easily replaced with the same part like i said my dealer would change it under warranty, and if they dont i'll jus buy a new 1.

the suspenion is very good as is, apart from mayb a couple of stabilizers, but the brakes will get replaced when i wear the discs.lol

the prob with my sti 8 is that u spend alot of money on it and it still dont handle like the evo or dont have the top end and aerodynamics of the evo.

seems u were at the same place as me with the scoobies. like i said i love em 2 bits but its all right in front of u sometimes and u just dont c it.

maybe it was the running costs that put me off in the past, but 2 hell with it, i serviced my scoobys every 3k and did 29k miles on a standard clutch. so the servicing aint much different and the weak spot (the clutches) on the evo i can live with, jus have 2 b careful.

john banks

Clutch and the brakes are fine so far on mine, but I am sympathetic. The synchros are not nice when cold though - not just my car.

subarustel

i know i know, driven too many evo's

the syncro's aint very forgiving but then again neither r the sti's.

as 4 the brakes i know if i put 30k miles on my evo the discs wont b up 2 scratch, but hey good news i heard through the grapevine there r some uprtaed discs which r similar 2 standard but get rid of the heat alot better.

this has gone in2 ot, so on a good note i think it's getting late now, hope 2 c u and your 9 at a meet or 2 whether it's with the scoobys or evo's

- steve

evonorth

The brakes standard are a joke, rubbish, just putting the two piece pf and pads on, do not rate either evo's or scooby's brakes