Scooby to S2000 anyone done this?
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Originally Posted by Adam M
I wasn't joking when i said destroy.
In a straight line giving the 3k rev range difference, it would be a different story, but I did say throw in slow bends and corners and destroy was noe exaggeration.
i think it would probably do something similar to my evo 6 too, and that is after I fit my 500bhp worth of stroker to it.
The fact is 90% of its torque is available at 2200 rpm.
How often are you at 2200? all the time is the answer. The car pulls like a train at town speeds. If you can do it safely, it is a devastating weapon. It doesn't suffer from fwd wheelslip, yet it can be hussled along as fast as any fwd by just about anyone.
Put it all together and you have about the fastest towncar you can buy.
I must stress that you have to be sensible doing this kind of driving, as I would guess you are more likely to kill someone extolling these virtue than you are driving an S2000 above 7k rpm.
But think back to driving your S2k, and imagine it at 2k rpm, then think how much work you have to do at town speeds to get it to feel faster than a 1.4 clio!
On another note, if you think that a supercharger retains purity then you are wrong. Superchargers maywell be linear, but they are a band aid for engines that don't make enough power. Forced induction is ultimately impure. it requires intercooling which decreases throttle response.
The main crime is also that it brings in a shocking whining noise that sounds like a coach.
I consider it a crime that honda have spent years developing an NI engine that makes 120bhp per litre reliably. The key achievent is that it has the highest specific power output for any road going engine and it is reliable.
You go and take an achievement like that and stick a super charger on it!
Its a crime. Its like sticking a supercharger on a 355. It might be gutless before you do it, but you are taking away from the incredible achievement of the design and the glorious sound of both those engines.
In a straight line giving the 3k rev range difference, it would be a different story, but I did say throw in slow bends and corners and destroy was noe exaggeration.
i think it would probably do something similar to my evo 6 too, and that is after I fit my 500bhp worth of stroker to it.
The fact is 90% of its torque is available at 2200 rpm.
How often are you at 2200? all the time is the answer. The car pulls like a train at town speeds. If you can do it safely, it is a devastating weapon. It doesn't suffer from fwd wheelslip, yet it can be hussled along as fast as any fwd by just about anyone.
Put it all together and you have about the fastest towncar you can buy.
I must stress that you have to be sensible doing this kind of driving, as I would guess you are more likely to kill someone extolling these virtue than you are driving an S2000 above 7k rpm.
But think back to driving your S2k, and imagine it at 2k rpm, then think how much work you have to do at town speeds to get it to feel faster than a 1.4 clio!
On another note, if you think that a supercharger retains purity then you are wrong. Superchargers maywell be linear, but they are a band aid for engines that don't make enough power. Forced induction is ultimately impure. it requires intercooling which decreases throttle response.
The main crime is also that it brings in a shocking whining noise that sounds like a coach.
I consider it a crime that honda have spent years developing an NI engine that makes 120bhp per litre reliably. The key achievent is that it has the highest specific power output for any road going engine and it is reliable.
You go and take an achievement like that and stick a super charger on it!
Its a crime. Its like sticking a supercharger on a 355. It might be gutless before you do it, but you are taking away from the incredible achievement of the design and the glorious sound of both those engines.
If you, simply, can't drive, then yes, your chipped gaymobile TT will get you fro a to b faster than an s2000.
Your examples are all about town driving. FFS, its about the open road or better still the track - where 6000 plus RPM is easy to maintain. In those circumstances, you are never going to be languishing at 2000 rpm.
If some prat in a chipped TT wants to get all excited and "destroy" S2000's at town speeds, then big deal, its hardly anything to get excited about - having "the fastest town car money can buy".
I've been destroyed by 1.1 fiestas in 30 mph limts.....
On the open road, with a driver that understands how to get the best out of the VTEC engines (and very few who have a history of high torque engines do, for a while at least), it doesnt matter how slow the corner is, or short the straight.
Destroy? your ****
And as for crimes? LOL Why on God's earth do you want or need a 500bhp Evo
Last edited by Diablo; May 17, 2006 at 02:39 PM.
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From: Home
Originally Posted by Dark Blue Mark
There's an awesome track car on Ebay at the moment.
S2000 is possibly the wrong choice if you want to compete with an Exige though. Unless you pass it while its broken down
Suspension on the S is around £1500 for a good setup, £1800+ for race stuff. brakes are very good with uprated discs and pads, but AP's and Brembos are well over a grand. A lot an be done with weigh saving but it all depends on whether you want to drive it on the road or not. I think it would e cheaper to buy an S1 exige and have a better track car out the box?
MB
S2000 is possibly the wrong choice if you want to compete with an Exige though. Unless you pass it while its broken down
Suspension on the S is around £1500 for a good setup, £1800+ for race stuff. brakes are very good with uprated discs and pads, but AP's and Brembos are well over a grand. A lot an be done with weigh saving but it all depends on whether you want to drive it on the road or not. I think it would e cheaper to buy an S1 exige and have a better track car out the box?
MB
Cheers
James
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From: Bournemouth - 5x Ex Impreza owner. 997 GT3 CS.
I never actully ran it in anger. Difficulty on getting an engine managements system and a mapper were one problem (comes with its own but its crude) and the other was I decided it was above what I needed. It would have done sub 10 sec 0-100 I think 
Lots of other reasons too, insurance, not daring to leave it in the hands of anyone during servicing etc... I also am impatient and was running it with no belt for a while and just got pissed off and removed it.
Install is here and was a bit of fun:
RE coilovers, Nitron or Bilstiens are the way forward IMO.
MB
Lots of other reasons too, insurance, not daring to leave it in the hands of anyone during servicing etc... I also am impatient and was running it with no belt for a while and just got pissed off and removed it.Install is here and was a bit of fun:
RE coilovers, Nitron or Bilstiens are the way forward IMO.
MB
Last edited by Dark Blue Mark; May 17, 2006 at 03:33 PM.
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From: Bournemouth - 5x Ex Impreza owner. 997 GT3 CS.
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Joined: Jun 2005
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From: Home
Originally Posted by Dark Blue Mark
I never actully ran it in anger. Difficulty on getting an engine managements system and a mapper were one problem (comes with its own but its crude) and the other was I decided it was above what I needed. It would have done sub 10 sec 0-100 I think Lots of other reasons too, insurance, not daring to leave it in the hands of anyone during servicing etc... I also am impatient and was running it with no belt for a while and just got pissed off and removed it.
Install is here and was a bit of fun:
http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php...ic=325803&st=0
RE coilovers, Nitron or Bilstiens are the way forward IMO.
MB
Lots of other reasons too, insurance, not daring to leave it in the hands of anyone during servicing etc... I also am impatient and was running it with no belt for a while and just got pissed off and removed it.Install is here and was a bit of fun:
http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php...ic=325803&st=0
RE coilovers, Nitron or Bilstiens are the way forward IMO.
MB
.
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From: Bournemouth - 5x Ex Impreza owner. 997 GT3 CS.
Its not cheap! You can make quite big improvements with an intake, header, decat, zorst and a remap though! But more power and you're into S/C territory. Mine's cost me a fortune with the Mugen lid and wheels, brakes, intake, ecu, zorst etc 
Love owning a Honda though!
MB
Love owning a Honda though!MB
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From: Home
Originally Posted by Dark Blue Mark
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From: Home
Originally Posted by Dark Blue Mark
Cheers!
So you going to buy one?
MB
So you going to buy one?
MB
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Diablo, you do come down on my comments a lot, but it makes a change from going down on your boyfriend I suppose. 
if you bother to read what I said, you would see that I have totally agreed with what you say, the TT is a gay hairdressers car, but I am simply saying that it does a great job as a **** fast town car. The S2000 does not.
if you are talking long sweeping bends and track work, then yes S2k all the way, but that doesn't equate to a large percentage of most people's driving.
as for crimes, the evo is hardly a technological achievement, it is just a 2.0 already turbo charged engine that can take a lot more poke easily and very cheaply. Since I enjoy tinkering with cars more than driving, why on earth shouldn't I get some more power out of it.
As stated earlier, the S2k engine is a little different and is not borrowed from other cars, it was developed with a certain car and power output in mind and is not shared with other platforms. Some poor blokes spent years optimising it and earned a trophy of the specific power output claim. Then some power hungry guys go and bolt a supercharger on it because they fail to appreciate the significance of what the car and the engineering were all about and just want more power. Not the same as upping the boost on an evo, and still a crime.
if you bother to read what I said, you would see that I have totally agreed with what you say, the TT is a gay hairdressers car, but I am simply saying that it does a great job as a **** fast town car. The S2000 does not.
if you are talking long sweeping bends and track work, then yes S2k all the way, but that doesn't equate to a large percentage of most people's driving.
as for crimes, the evo is hardly a technological achievement, it is just a 2.0 already turbo charged engine that can take a lot more poke easily and very cheaply. Since I enjoy tinkering with cars more than driving, why on earth shouldn't I get some more power out of it.
As stated earlier, the S2k engine is a little different and is not borrowed from other cars, it was developed with a certain car and power output in mind and is not shared with other platforms. Some poor blokes spent years optimising it and earned a trophy of the specific power output claim. Then some power hungry guys go and bolt a supercharger on it because they fail to appreciate the significance of what the car and the engineering were all about and just want more power. Not the same as upping the boost on an evo, and still a crime.
Last edited by Adam M; May 17, 2006 at 06:24 PM.
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Sorry Adam, I know you think I come down on your comments too hard, but you don't half talk bollocks sometimes.
If you, simply, can't drive, then yes, your chipped gaymobile TT will get you fro a to b faster than an s2000.
Your examples are all about town driving. FFS, its about the open road or better still the track - where 6000 plus RPM is easy to maintain. In those circumstances, you are never going to be languishing at 2000 rpm.
If some prat in a chipped TT wants to get all excited and "destroy" S2000's at town speeds, then big deal, its hardly anything to get excited about - having "the fastest town car money can buy".
I've been destroyed by 1.1 fiestas in 30 mph limts.....
On the open road, with a driver that understands how to get the best out of the VTEC engines (and very few who have a history of high torque engines do, for a while at least), it doesnt matter how slow the corner is, or short the straight.
If you, simply, can't drive, then yes, your chipped gaymobile TT will get you fro a to b faster than an s2000.
Your examples are all about town driving. FFS, its about the open road or better still the track - where 6000 plus RPM is easy to maintain. In those circumstances, you are never going to be languishing at 2000 rpm.
If some prat in a chipped TT wants to get all excited and "destroy" S2000's at town speeds, then big deal, its hardly anything to get excited about - having "the fastest town car money can buy".
I've been destroyed by 1.1 fiestas in 30 mph limts.....
On the open road, with a driver that understands how to get the best out of the VTEC engines (and very few who have a history of high torque engines do, for a while at least), it doesnt matter how slow the corner is, or short the straight.
I'd happily take a chipped TT on point to point in the S2000 and I'd expect to beat it against an equal driver. I know I bang this point home over and over again on scoobynet but the S2000 is as easy to keep between 6-9000rpm as a scooby is to keep between 3-6000rpm. In fact, the gearing is such that its often very hard to keep the revs low when you want to. Case and point is that I'm usually sitting at over 5000rpm in 6th gear keeping up with traffic on the motorway home! I'd challenge anyone to drive an S2000 normally (but lightly) and not exceed 3000rpm. All other cars I've had plod about town using the 2000-4000rpm range. The S2000 tends to plod around at 3500-5500 in the same gears.
As for messing around in town the S2000 is actually the fastest car I've had for such f*cking around. This is because the scooby had lag, the saxo was a 1.6, the 406 heavy and the S2000 can get by in just 1st gear. When I'm being a spazz (i.e. driving fast) around town I use 1st pretty much exclusively because it does 35mph, has zero lag and crucially doesn't feel like you are punishing it even holding 8000rpm. You can also change from 2nd down to first as easy as 4th down to 3rd.
It's hard to describe in writing. Borrow/steal/beg an S2000, drive it like you stole it and you'll understand. Its like a digital switch. Drive one way and it's a normal, fairly potent car. Drive another and its f*cking mental. There is no middle ground but if you try to drive 'middle ground' you'll be a lot slower than other performance cars! My scooby was best in the middle ground with the spool n' squirt power for brisk but not flat out progress. The S2000 simply will not play that game.
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I've never been caught at 2000 rpm when i havent wanted to be. Had an old style M3 behind me who was pressing on, was doing 25 mph going over a round about and thought hhhhmm he will rip me at this speed in 2nd so I just stuck it in 1st. It goes in so easily at those speeds and there is no reason why you should ever be caught at 2k.
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say what you like but even at 6-9k rpm you still have a max of 140lbft. Its the same reason that a 330 diesel having only 5k max to play with is still devastating point to point, fact remains you have to be a good driver to exploit 140lbft successfully even if it does give you 240bhp.
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Originally Posted by Adam M
say what you like but even at 6-9k rpm you still have a max of 140lbft. Its the same reason that a 330 diesel having only 5k max to play with is still devastating point to point, fact remains you have to be a good driver to exploit 140lbft successfully even if it does give you 240bhp.
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From: 32 cylinders and many cats
Torquey cars with narrow power bands just give the illusion of performance. It was dead easy to keep the M3 between 6000 and 8000 RPM because it had SMG, but with a nice slick Honda gearbox what's the problem? Just paint a new rev counter on the Honda with half the revs it is really running and it would feel ace...
There is nothing criminal about supercharging or turbocharging a high specific output NA engine because they respond so deliciously to very little boost. Better to do it to a good engine already than fill in the mundane designs with excessive boost pressures to get mediocre outputs. Turbocharging or supercharging these engines is also a lot kinder on them than further NA tuning.
M3 engines, and moreso Honda engines (because they are better) are prime candidates. Only issue is the compression if you push too far.
There is nothing criminal about supercharging or turbocharging a high specific output NA engine because they respond so deliciously to very little boost. Better to do it to a good engine already than fill in the mundane designs with excessive boost pressures to get mediocre outputs. Turbocharging or supercharging these engines is also a lot kinder on them than further NA tuning.
M3 engines, and moreso Honda engines (because they are better) are prime candidates. Only issue is the compression if you push too far.
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From: Bournemouth - 5x Ex Impreza owner. 997 GT3 CS.
Adam, please dont assume things. I know this engine a lot better than yourself and know what it can take from a years worth of owning and researching it. How is it that the Spoon / Mugen / J's cars are putting out 300bhp with stroker kits and surviving?! Am I not supposed to mod it because its been heralded as "genius" Everything can be improved, and at the end of the day it develops is power from a hydraulic lift technology rather than just been mapped / tuned to an inch of its life.
I fully appreciate the significance,ive been a Honda fan for as long as I can remember so dont presume I dont appreciate it! Im also a qualified mechanical engineer, so I would think I appreciate it more than most
MB
I fully appreciate the significance,ive been a Honda fan for as long as I can remember so dont presume I dont appreciate it! Im also a qualified mechanical engineer, so I would think I appreciate it more than most
MB
Originally Posted by Adam M
Some poor blokes spent years optimising it and earned a trophy of the specific power output claim. Then some power hungry guys go and bolt a supercharger on it because they fail to appreciate the significance of what the car and the engineering were all about and just want more power. Not the same as upping the boost on an evo, and still a crime.
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From: Bournemouth - 5x Ex Impreza owner. 997 GT3 CS.
Well said from someone else whu understands how engines work
MB
MB
Originally Posted by john banks
Torquey cars with narrow power bands just give the illusion of performance. It was dead easy to keep the M3 between 6000 and 8000 RPM because it had SMG, but with a nice slick Honda gearbox what's the problem? Just paint a new rev counter on the Honda with half the revs it is really running and it would feel ace...
There is nothing criminal about supercharging or turbocharging a high specific output NA engine because they respond so deliciously to very little boost. Better to do it to a good engine already than fill in the mundane designs with excessive boost pressures to get mediocre outputs. Turbocharging or supercharging these engines is also a lot kinder on them than further NA tuning.
M3 engines, and moreso Honda engines (because they are better) are prime candidates. Only issue is the compression if you push too far.
There is nothing criminal about supercharging or turbocharging a high specific output NA engine because they respond so deliciously to very little boost. Better to do it to a good engine already than fill in the mundane designs with excessive boost pressures to get mediocre outputs. Turbocharging or supercharging these engines is also a lot kinder on them than further NA tuning.
M3 engines, and moreso Honda engines (because they are better) are prime candidates. Only issue is the compression if you push too far.
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From: Bradford
Just paint a new rev counter on the Honda with half the revs it is really running and it would feel ace...
I had actually typed that into a response earlier on but took it out before submitting for fear of being laughed at. You are 100% correct. In actual fact 9000rpm in the S2000 doesn't IMHO sound or feel like 2000rpm more than my other petrol cars would rev to. My VTS used to scream its nuts off at 7000rpm to a degree I couldn't imagine it at 9k yet the honda takes it in its stride
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Agreed, my old Clio Cup used to rev to 7800 (chipped) and it literally sounded/felt like it was going to explode at those revs (not holding it at those revs i might add) However you can hold the S2000 at 8,000 rpm and think nothing of it!
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From: £1.785m reasons not to be here :)
Originally Posted by Adam M
Diablo, you do come down on my comments a lot, but it makes a change from going down on your boyfriend I suppose.
Sorry Adam, but trying to be funny at my expense doesn't detract from the fact that despite your proclamations on threads such as these, it is clear that you know dick all about most things mechanical, and what you do state as "fact" has generally been (wrongly) regurgitated from what you have been told by others
if you bother to read what I said, you would see that I have totally agreed with what you say, the TT is a gay hairdressers car, but I am simply saying that it does a great job as a **** fast town car. The S2000 does not.
if you are talking long sweeping bends and track work, then yes S2k all the way, but that doesn't equate to a large percentage of most people's driving.
as for crimes, the evo is hardly a technological achievement, it is just a 2.0 already turbo charged engine that can take a lot more poke easily and very cheaply. Since I enjoy tinkering with cars more than driving, why on earth shouldn't I get some more power out of it.
As stated earlier, the S2k engine is a little different and is not borrowed from other cars, it was developed with a certain car and power output in mind and is not shared with other platforms. Some poor blokes spent years optimising it and earned a trophy of the specific power output claim. Then some power hungry guys go and bolt a supercharger on it because they fail to appreciate the significance of what the car and the engineering were all about and just want more power. Not the same as upping the boost on an evo, and still a crime.
It's that engineering that enables them to get 300 bhp and use 9000 revs all day long at very low boost with negligable lag and fantastic drivability.
ROFLMAO....
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From: £1.785m reasons not to be here :)
Originally Posted by Adam M
say what you like
Its obvious you are not a good driver.
but even at 6-9k rpm you still have a max of 140lbft. Its the same reason that a 330 diesel having only 5k max to play with is still devastating point to point, fact remains you have to be a good driver to exploit 140lbft successfully even if it does give you 240bhp.
My current turbo diesel has 250 lbs ft of torque at 2000 rpm or approximately 110 lbs ft more than the 140 lbs ft between 6 to 9k of the Honda, as per your quote above.
There is simply no way that I would get near an s2000 running over 6000 rpm regardless of how much torque by car has.
What you are missing by a margin wide enough to park a bus in, is that flywheel torque is not the same as torque at wheels, which is dependent upon gearing. The lower the gearing (or the biggest step down between engine speed and road wheel speed), the higher the effective torque at wheels will be.
You can only compare torque figures for cars with the same gear and final drive ratios, before you even get onto weight.
So to draw attention to flywheel torque at high revs being "only 140 lbs ft" is demonstrating a complete lack of understanding of the subject.
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