LG John

Or why not get a REVO'd TDI to give decent day to day grunt but with sound economy and running costs and an older 106 GTI or Saxo VTS for some easy cheap, 'not too important if you break it' thrills. GTI/VTS offers 95% of cup thrills for a lot less money.

bluenose172

iTrader: (2)

Kenny RWD is a completely different ball game though! The thing that used to bug me was taking off on a greasy r/a, and getting wheel spin at 1.5krpm-2krpm and having to back off due to wheel spin, then get back on the power trying to find that happy medium that eventually gave you some grip. Didn't have to go near VTEC! Became very tiresome, especially this time of year.

LG John

I wasn't directing my post at you in particular btw paul. I can't comment on what you've said, not driven a CTR at this time of year although my mate has one and loves it and it made good progress up a wet, cold hill in 1st/2nd 3-up the other day. Perhaps tyre choice/pressure is an important consideration.

john banks

M3 is pi$h going onto a roundabout as well, it has so many ingredients of a good launcher - easy SMG that just brings in the revs and clutch beautifully, but then it just spins the wheels. The Octy vRS and 406 V6 were similarly afflicted - nice torquey engines to launch and then fluffed it all with no traction. The best roundabout machine par excellence was Classic Scooby with 2.5 and 20G, 2000 RPM and clutch out and it was just peerless

dogboy1

Out of the two its defo the CTR all the way!!!!

Clarkie172

CTR is a better, quicker car. END OF

super6four

Have to say I have also driven a lot of fwd cars, I also do not profess to being Fujiwara Takumi . But I really have never had any traction issues. In 57k miles and 3 winters. Living out in't country (south Oxford village).

I am also realistic to know that the CTR does have it's foults, that steering being the main one. I would give anything to Honda if they had given it the same feel as my old Clio Williams used to have. It really does have stagering amount of grip it may just not be the BEST car at telegraphing this, BUT this can be remedied, and if you buy a 2nd hand enthusiasts car, chances are it will be running Toyo's and may even had a fast road set up done like mine (£50). This really helps.

As for all that Cr@p about being no power below 6k, tosh, the cars only ads an extra 10% when on cam. An extra 19 bhp, enough for a shove in the back to make you grin, but if we are being honest nothing like the old B16 series. More of a gimmik really. But still sounds cool.

Do not get me wrong I do like the Clio's great fun cars, and I know the looks of the CTR are not to everyones taste. Just for me at anyrate after driving both the CTR was the better allround pakage.

As for Evo magazine as biased a bunch as you could ever meet...and I have.

Righto, off down the shops, and as it is chucking it down I am taking the Scooby

Rcb

Quality pic mate!

CTR beats the 182 in almost every aspect, you know it makes sense

R1916v

I'd honestly say have a good long drive in both and then decide. From my experiances people distinctively prefer one over the other to drive.

Personally I went for a mk1 172 over an early CTR as I preferred how it drove, but others I know have gone for the CTR.

The thing that did it for me at the time was that the Clio offered everything the CTR I drove did (plus the Clio had aircon!) and it cost less than half the price and was only a year older. I really couldn't justify spending the 11k on a 51plate with no aircon, but that was a while ago and from a main dealer.

Well that one is modded slightly, personally I prefer the looks of this http://motor.tuportada.com/img/wp/re...clio-v6-12.jpg

To say again, drive both then decide, I think you'll easily find one you like more than the other, seems that everyone has a different answer

leonpoole

When i had my 172 i hated it in the wet. If you wern't progressive with the acceleration it felt like something was going to go bang and the gearstick would bounce all over the place. In the dry it was ok but i still prefer the CTR

mad-dad

all reviews state that the clio is better as a drivers car, no doubt. but if it were my money i was spending it would be the civic every day of the week. however if it were somebody elses money then it would probably be the clio.

Durzel

I've gone from a 520bhp R34 GTR to a CTR and haven't been disappointed. The wheelspinning in damp conditions isn't fun, but that's pretty much par for the course for any FWD car with 200bhp+.

super6four

[QUOTE=R1916v]Well that one is modded slightly, personally I prefer the looks of this http://motor.tuportada.com/img/wp/re...clio-v6-12.jpg


Yeah they are mean looking cars, I'll agree with you there......(mines still quicker though , and including mods still nearly 8k cheaper...mind you if someone wanted to swap, I doubt I'd say no )

I also agree that you do need to drive both, after all some cars suit certain driving styles more than others. There are also bargains to be had with both having new models out, though in the CTR's case they are not making any more EP's, and the new CTR is not out till end of the year at the earliest.

Rcb

How does that work?

Also, what do you expect with 200bhp+ and FWD, the wheels are obviously going to spin in the wet.

Gaz 1

Have you thought about the Integra type r, i've just bought one of these and it's fantastic, it's the new style teg dc5, only thing is they are import only, 220bhp standard, lsd, brembos better traction than the civic, really awesome, but hey i'm biased

mad-dad

i don't have a problem with the wheels spinning. i'm drivivng a 270odd bhp nissan 200sx(rear wheel drive), i just trust japanese reliability a hell of a lot more

super6four

Now finaly someone talking sense, no doubt I would have got one over the CTR if there were any around when I got my Civic, but I never even knew the DC5 existed then

Gaz 1

This is what u want mate, am fookin loving it

noobscoob

As an ex impreza driver now driving a ctr and having driven the clio 182 i would say this? do you like wearing ladies underwear? is your name sharon? and do you shave your armpits and spray them with impulse? if the answers to these questions are yes....get a clio

reliable,quick,spacious,practical.....are these things all worth giving up to get that extra bit of feel going like an **** around the local roundabout at 2am?

add to this the clios foul drving position,max power 18 yr old driver appearance and build quality that play doh would be proud of and it takes a
man with a walnut for a brain to consider the clio for a day to day vehicle.

talizman

iTrader: (1)

You want to share your "words of wisdom" with Evo mag who have just rated the 182 Trophy number in in ECOTY?

mad-dad

that wasn't his point really was it. the point is that EVO dont own the cars. no one is actually arguing the fact that the clio is the better drivers car.the point is for a bit of extra adjustability, would you spend your own money ona french car or a jap car. i know where mine would go. err thats jap by the way

super6four

Evo is just a bunch of guys with thier own likes and dislikes, they have opinions, not facts. And it does not make em right.

talizman

iTrader: (1)

Well I have owned both cars unlike Evo, and like I said earlier, I hated the CTR so much that I got rid after just 3 months at a huge loss, just to get rid.... Oh yeah, traded it for a brand new 182 with Cup packs btw

CTR was numb, with lifeless feedback through the steering and suspension, and the Clio's handling simply leaves the CTR in the shade.

Practicality wise, there isn't much in it......
Reliability, sure the Frenchie will always come second to a Jap car, but surely pure driving pleasure and grin factor are more important to ScoobyNetters?
Also the fact that a brand new 182 can be had for £12k ish, some £4k less than the Civic.... Go figure.



If it were just ONE guy's opinion then your argument would hold water, but it isn't. Its a group of extremely clued up journalists with probably more knowledge and driving ability than lots of us, who each rate the cars and the OVERALL decision was that the £14k Clio beat ALL COMERS!

mega_stream

I had a CTR for 2 years from new and lost just 5k on it, sold it privately in 2 days this was the best car on the planet.

Had a Type-RA STi5 before which was the best car on the planet.

I've got an S2000 now which the best car on the planet.

Always makes me laugh these blokey discussions around how good we all think each others cars are.

R1916v

Never had a problem with my Clio, the V6 at the time was the only car top gear had been given to thrash about for the day that didn't have anything break on it (that was in 2003). Quick, last time I looked there was a gnats whisker between the Clio and CTR, having driven both they certainly felt pretty similar. Spacious/Practical, depends what you need in a car, I don't need to carry anything bar me or any passengers

As for losing 5k in 2 years, plenty of 53 plate Clios on autotrader for 8k or so, seeing as they likely only cost 11-12 to start with that's abotu the same loss cash terms (although I know % wise it's not as good).

Good post though, made me chuckle

I'll say it again, drive both and you'll clearly find a winner, everyone likes something different.

LG John

I don't fall into that trap. If you search back through my posts a few years you'll see that even when I owned my scooby I would post that my vts £for£ was a better car. You'll also note that I highly rated my 406 V6 for straightline performance when benchmarked against a standard classic. Right now I say the S2000 is by far the best car that I have owned. I don't say that because I currently have it, I say that because it is! Vts probably takes second place.

I think when I next dip into the world of scoobies I should try something a little more extreme

CTR-172 are two different types of car offering similar performance in a different way. Its a case of individual taste I would say. I love Honda's and as an every day car for me I'd have the CTR. However, as a second car for chucking around at weekends or on track days, etc then I'd have a 172. To the poster I recommend you drive both and have a good think about what you actually want from the car. You'll know which one to get after that

Dark Blue Mark

I hope to never own another French car

The Japs have it sussed.

MB

slim_boy_fat

I think you miss the point, given that they drive more cars day in day out than you have had hot dinners then it kind of makes there opinions just a tad more worthy than yours, like the same way the sun is a tad hotter than a bowl of ice!!!!

How can you have FACTS in a subjective environment like cars.

Evo is all about drivers cars, FACT. If you want to read opinions with a diffrent slant buy What Car.

On another note, the Integra Type R gets my volte.

The Clio if its at the right price, the 182 is a nice car.

The CTR is just plain overpriced and quite frankly ugly but then someone else might think it look nice.

What about a Seat Ibiza Cupra

Or a Mini Cooper S (maybe still a bit pricey!)

Castrol

My Wife had the Clio for 2 yrs and apart from a rattle, no hassles at all. I drove it once - about 200 yds and couldn't go any further. Legs hurt, back hurt, head hit the roof. Dreadful car unless you're under 6'3" tall, ie a midget...

We tried a CTR as a replacement for the Clio - more room, seemed a much, much, much nicer place to be, but really strange steering - light, then heavy, then light - all in the same bend. She bought a WRX 5 dr.

super6four

, You have absolutely no idea how many cars I have driven, or what I do so how can you say. I would also take with a pinch of salt some of the things you read in Evo, and a few other mags....not everything that is said is unclouded by outside pressures. believe me I know, .