Trains: Poor rail adhesion
10 November 2005, 08:35 PM
#32
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Yep! It's a tamper alright. That pic was taken at Fishdock, next to Bristol temple meads.
As I said before, with the right braking technique (and suiting your speed to gradients/conditions etc.) you can bring anything to a halt safely. I only have to use very light braking applied progressively to bring that to a halt, it only weighs 100 tons. Heavier trains however - both passenger and freighters all have simultaneous braking on all axles and can stop very quickly considering their weight.
I've seen them flying down the Lickey bank at 80-90mph (one of the steepest gradients in the country apparantly) with no qualms at all, so the drivers must have complete confidence in their stopping ability.
I don't know the individual cirmcumstances of your friends episode, maybe he had a signal thrown back (switched straight to red when it was previously green) at him unexpectedly? In which case there's not a lot you can do about it.
As I said before, with the right braking technique (and suiting your speed to gradients/conditions etc.) you can bring anything to a halt safely. I only have to use very light braking applied progressively to bring that to a halt, it only weighs 100 tons. Heavier trains however - both passenger and freighters all have simultaneous braking on all axles and can stop very quickly considering their weight.
I've seen them flying down the Lickey bank at 80-90mph (one of the steepest gradients in the country apparantly) with no qualms at all, so the drivers must have complete confidence in their stopping ability.
I don't know the individual cirmcumstances of your friends episode, maybe he had a signal thrown back (switched straight to red when it was previously green) at him unexpectedly? In which case there's not a lot you can do about it.
Last edited by trackman; 10 November 2005 at 09:21 PM.
10 November 2005, 09:37 PM
#34
The Lickey? Oh yes. I'm JUST old enough to have seen steam there!
My mate's episode was just that, emergency braking with a class 60 and 3000 tonnes behind him. Overshot the red by a few yards and was annoyed as hell about it.
He's retired now, so can laugh about it, but he was fuming at the time.
Alcazar
Edited to ask: what's at Bath Road now? Nowt?
My mate's episode was just that, emergency braking with a class 60 and 3000 tonnes behind him. Overshot the red by a few yards and was annoyed as hell about it.
He's retired now, so can laugh about it, but he was fuming at the time.
Alcazar
Edited to ask: what's at Bath Road now? Nowt?
10 November 2005, 09:47 PM
#36
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Originally Posted by alcazar
The Lickey? Oh yes. I'm JUST old enough to have seen steam there!
My mate's episode was just that, emergency braking with a class 60 and 3000 tonnes behind him. Overshot the red by a few yards and was annoyed as hell about it.
He's retired now, so can laugh about it, but he was fuming at the time.
Alcazar
Edited to ask: what's at Bath Road now? Nowt?
My mate's episode was just that, emergency braking with a class 60 and 3000 tonnes behind him. Overshot the red by a few yards and was annoyed as hell about it.
He's retired now, so can laugh about it, but he was fuming at the time.
Alcazar
Edited to ask: what's at Bath Road now? Nowt?
No there is nothing there anymore really, just some deserted deltics and lots of weeds.
12 November 2005, 03:43 PM
#40
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Originally Posted by alcazar
DESERTED DELTICS????????????
Alcazar
Alcazar
12 November 2005, 10:41 PM
#42
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Wouldn't having some sort of cleaning mechanism attached BEHIND the train rather than in front of it negate the obvious downfalls of going over joints with something being pressed down at the front effectively 'shaving' the track, noise etc?
Surely something like (as mentioned previously) wire brushes that were only pressed down by their own weight rather than an anything else wouldn't create much noise and would do the job?
And before the witty cynics say 'Theres no point cleaning the track after you've been over it d1ckhead' I'm talking about an ongoing cycle of cleaning before the next train rolls by. Given that more than one train will generally go over the track per hour then there won't be much time for enough leaves to fall and cause the next train a problem ?
Surely something like (as mentioned previously) wire brushes that were only pressed down by their own weight rather than an anything else wouldn't create much noise and would do the job?
And before the witty cynics say 'Theres no point cleaning the track after you've been over it d1ckhead' I'm talking about an ongoing cycle of cleaning before the next train rolls by. Given that more than one train will generally go over the track per hour then there won't be much time for enough leaves to fall and cause the next train a problem ?
13 November 2005, 07:45 AM
#43
I think wire brushes were tried, with mixed results. The brushes clogged up too easily ,and smeared the rails with even more goo, or went too slow and didn't shift the goo well enough.
You have to remember that the top of a rail isn't flat, it's a compound curve, so difficult to brush clean.
Also, much of the problem occurs on the southern area, with frequent lightweight trains, and much stop-sdtart running, just when adhesion is needed...................the problem here being third rail, energised at 750V. You can't risk chucking clods of wet leaves between this and the running rail, nor can you clean the conductor rail with a wire brush.
Alcazar
You have to remember that the top of a rail isn't flat, it's a compound curve, so difficult to brush clean.
Also, much of the problem occurs on the southern area, with frequent lightweight trains, and much stop-sdtart running, just when adhesion is needed...................the problem here being third rail, energised at 750V. You can't risk chucking clods of wet leaves between this and the running rail, nor can you clean the conductor rail with a wire brush.
Alcazar
04 December 2005, 10:24 PM
#44
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I drive High Speed Trains and 'poor rail adhesion' can be very serious at its worst, and at best, a real pain!
To keep things very simple for car drivers, just imagine that black ice is the roadgoing equivilent of 'leaves on the line'. The leaves adhere to the railhead, like they're glued on, and become extremely difficult to remove, even using the very latest equipment!
Some areas are far worse than others, the line from Reading to Exeter is particularly bad! Also, like someone previously mentioned, many new trains are a lot lighter and suffer from poor rail adhesion a lot more than an older, much heavier train.
Finally, to comment on delays due to poor rail adhesion, just think of it like the train is unable to get proper traction, so it departs a station, the wheels start spinning at 20mph, so the driver has to stop applying power, or apply it very gently...........10 minutes later, the train is only doing 40mph, where without poor rail adhesion, it would have been doing, say, 80 mph, hence the delays! Simple really.
To keep things very simple for car drivers, just imagine that black ice is the roadgoing equivilent of 'leaves on the line'. The leaves adhere to the railhead, like they're glued on, and become extremely difficult to remove, even using the very latest equipment!
Some areas are far worse than others, the line from Reading to Exeter is particularly bad! Also, like someone previously mentioned, many new trains are a lot lighter and suffer from poor rail adhesion a lot more than an older, much heavier train.
Finally, to comment on delays due to poor rail adhesion, just think of it like the train is unable to get proper traction, so it departs a station, the wheels start spinning at 20mph, so the driver has to stop applying power, or apply it very gently...........10 minutes later, the train is only doing 40mph, where without poor rail adhesion, it would have been doing, say, 80 mph, hence the delays! Simple really.
04 December 2005, 10:46 PM
#45
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Originally Posted by GREGGYG
I drive High Speed Trains and 'poor rail adhesion' can be very serious at its worst, and at best, a real pain!
To keep things very simple for car drivers, just imagine that black ice is the roadgoing equivilent of 'leaves on the line'. The leaves adhere to the railhead, like they're glued on, and become extremely difficult to remove, even using the very latest equipment!
Some areas are far worse than others, the line from Reading to Exeter is particularly bad! Also, like someone previously mentioned, many new trains are a lot lighter and suffer from poor rail adhesion a lot more than an older, much heavier train.
Finally, to comment on delays due to poor rail adhesion, just think of it like the train is unable to get proper traction, so it departs a station, the wheels start spinning at 20mph, so the driver has to stop applying power, or apply it very gently...........10 minutes later, the train is only doing 40mph, where without poor rail adhesion, it would have been doing, say, 80 mph, hence the delays! Simple really.
To keep things very simple for car drivers, just imagine that black ice is the roadgoing equivilent of 'leaves on the line'. The leaves adhere to the railhead, like they're glued on, and become extremely difficult to remove, even using the very latest equipment!
Some areas are far worse than others, the line from Reading to Exeter is particularly bad! Also, like someone previously mentioned, many new trains are a lot lighter and suffer from poor rail adhesion a lot more than an older, much heavier train.
Finally, to comment on delays due to poor rail adhesion, just think of it like the train is unable to get proper traction, so it departs a station, the wheels start spinning at 20mph, so the driver has to stop applying power, or apply it very gently...........10 minutes later, the train is only doing 40mph, where without poor rail adhesion, it would have been doing, say, 80 mph, hence the delays! Simple really.
05 December 2005, 08:07 AM
#46
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Originally Posted by Elston Gunnn
Just don't bother GreggYG. These fecking car driving feejits just wouldn't understand. Loco hauled the way way forward. eh.
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