wrxtankie

Heres my unwanted learning of oversteer then ******

www.putfile.com/evolution9

would like to try it on an open track not the ring again

scoobylav

Awesome video that you lucky barsteward

swaussie

I got myself into an unwanted situation a few weeks ago with massive oversteer due to me coming into a T intersection too hot on a wet road (trying to beat the lights) I was in a pretty bad mood (to say the least) and I think more out of anger than anything else I planted my right foot instead of what I normally would have done (gone for the brake).

The car was astounding to say the least. I could feel the front wheels pulling the car out of the slide and as it came around I followed with the steering wheel and shot off down the road in the direction I wanted to .

I am by no means a hot shot driver but from all the reading on Scoobynet about how to drive a 4wd car properly I think my subconcious (and Fear) took over and I actually saw for myself how important it is to having the drive going through 4 wheels. I cant say I could do this again but I guess it was the right method to regain control, its just not logical to be asking for more speed with the right foot after too much right foot got you in this situation in the first place

I did go home for a change of underwear afterwards

RedScoob

I agree.
The worst thing that you can do if you've overcooked it in an Impreza is take your foot off. I've done it a few times and the weight transfer just messes everything up... Usually ending up with an inelegant broadslide to a halt.
I've come out of a few bends with serious opposite lock and bottled it half way through (letting off the throttle). The snap oversteer is VICIOUS - you have to be lightning quick to catch it. I think part of the problem is the relatively short-throw accelerator pedal which amplifies whatever your right foot does.....
If you've got loads of room, you can keep your foot planted and let the AWD sort it out.

flynnstudio

I love this statement - your being way too humble here - but it conjurs up a lovely image...

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Plenty of reasons why I disagree on the "good in the twistys" argument in here

MY93WRX

I'm doing my first track day at the end of the month at oulton park, hope i don't copy the manouver in that clip. He really was driving on the limit and I think the driver got over confident with all that adredalin and the car bit him. Bet it was an expensive repair. Great clip though.

RRH

you'd better not do it with me in the passenger seat

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Anyone know if solid rear drop links make the rear end snap more violent??

MY93WRX

I'll try my best, - not to, that is! But im sure the driving tips from you and marcus will save my car and any passengers.

bugeyewrx

I thought I post an update on my efforts at learning how to control oversteer

Castle Coombe :

Lots of rain , barriers very close decided to save it for another day .

Bruntingthorpe driver training day 1 : ( dry , original suspension )

Stage 1

Explain to instructor that I want to learn how to recover from lift off oversteer . He explains what to do . Off we go third gear , accelerate up to 60 lift off and turn hard , car slides , I massively over correct , car snaps back in the opposite direction , I over correct again , stand on the brakes hold the lock on and slide across the runway and grass into the tyre barriers .

Stage 2

Extract car from tyre barrier , examine damage and decide it's not the end of the world . Instructor explains what I did wrong . Off we go again , instructor demonstrates the correct procedure , I notice that the amount off steering lock required to recover is considerably less than I had been using .

Stage 3

I have another go accelerate up to 60 etc , apply much more sensible amount of correction , car straightens up , all is well . Spend the rest of the day merry sliding around , even going so far as to intentionally over correct to see if I can catch it and I can . Go home happy even thought the car has some new dents .


Bruntingthorpe driver training day 2 : ( wet , new 22mm rear arb , KYB adjustable dampers , prodrive geo settings )

Stage 4

As per stage 3 , only car slides more easily ( it was raining ) , but the car was much more progresive and easiler to control with the new set up .

Stage 5

Decide to try applying throttle while the car is sliding , so induce the slide , car starts to slide , stand on accelerator , car pulls straight . I play at this for a while .

Stage 6

Decide to try holding the slide with the steering and then us the throttle to straighten the car when needed ( ie before I land up on the grass ) . This works well , so I try again and it works again , so I try again by which time I'm doing about 80 mph , physics overcomes my limited driving ability , back end lets go completely and car starts to spin , safe to say I had lost control . This time I let go of everthing , steering , throttle and the car corrects itself and procedes to roll backwards down the runway . I stand on brakes car comes to a halt , restart engine , check all is clear and off we go again .

Stage 7

More of the above but I realise that you don't need to stand on the throttle and that a gentle application does the job . This means that the speed does not rise with each recovery and you can travel the length of the runway sliding in one direction or the other .

Conclusion


So what conclusions do I draw from all this . Well I wanted to learn how to deal with oversteer after a few 'moments' on track days and the realisation that it was pretty much luck as to whether I recovered or not . Well after a couple of days trying and well over 100 attempts I would say I now in with a fighting chance of catching the slide and correcting it .

At the begining of all this I was pretty much a passenger and really it was all happening to me , by the end of it I had a feel for the car in a slide and could make some sort of decision as to what I wanted to do and usually make it happen . I'm not arrogant enough to think for one minute that I've got a this completely under control , but I've made the first steps .

I've learnt ( the hard way ) that controlling a car in a slide at high speed is not as simple as do this now then do this . It's a very dynamic stituation that requires a suprising amount of subtly and control and lots of trial and error . When it goes wrong at 70 mph it really goes wrong , it all starts to happen very quickly and you use up alot of space trying to sort it out .


I would say that driver training days are great for learning this sort of thing , on track days the barriers are oh so close , and you can learn a vast amount more about your car and it's handling in one day than years of driving on the road .


Cheers ,

Martin .

PS left foot brakings next

ru'

Great post Martin, sorry your scoob took one for the team!

bugeyewrx

Well if your going to play.......... you've got to accept the risks .

RRH

excellent write up, well done.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Indeed, a very good write up. It is very hard to give "the definitive answer" of what to do. And is certainly a case of suck it and see, sometimes it's better to let it do a 180 than let it drift off track or snap back round and into a tyre wall And it isn't just a case of winding on lock, it can be the opposite. If using the throttle control to correct, very little corrective lock is required (unless the turbo drops off boost - that's another story ).

JTaylor

Superb report mate - really interesting. The barriers at Coombe are very close aren't they? . No doubt what you've learnt will proove invaluable, goes to show that sometimes modding the driver can be so much more cost effective then bolting on some bits.

bugeyewrx

Thanks for the comments everyone

Yes the barriers at coombe do focus the mind some what .

Re 'driver modding' the suspension changes have made the car more neutral but a few laps of coombe with Mike Wilds ( instuctor ) has done more to reduce the understeer out of corners than any rear anti roll bar ever will . I asked him about understeer and he said that what you've got to remember is that it's driver induced , see I can make the car understeer anytime I like ( he then applied a rather large amount of steering lock while the car carried straight on ) see I can make it do it in the other direction too , he said , all at 70 mph at castle coombe in the wet . He then went on to pass every other car on track with the lowest powered car there .

Dropping off boost while using the throttle to correct so loss of power , weight transfer forward , loss of traction at the rear , car slides in one direction or the other depending on steering input , weight transfer and several other things I don't know about or understand . Sounds like another thing that I understand in theory but the practice ......


Cheers ,

Martin .

rossi_classicwrx

This thread is one of the best on this site.. its got some great write ups. I believe i can control slides most of the time as long as there not too severe.. The impreza can sometimes seem so forgiving and easy to control when sliding and even gave me a little too much confidence in my abilitys of controlling it.. The car can also bite back very hard and give you a real kick in the *** (almost like letting me know that im not really that good!) and make you realise just how able the car is but also that the largest factor in this is driver ability.. Its far to easy to get over confident and quite hard to accept your own limits and stick to them or just push them a little.
I had my first ever track day at castle combe in my impreza and i loved every minute of it. I gained so much from doing it and learned that practice is by far the best method. I got caught out by pushing too hard. I overtook a sierra cosworth on the track and was not really pulling away afterwards so i started trying to go faster and faster into corners (afterwards i was shown that my attempts to go faster were actually slowing me down) eventually ending with me overshooting the final set of esses and spinning accross the grass. I started oversteering into the first part of the s and ended up sliding it across the grass... From this day i learned that the key to both driving fast and controlling any slides is trying to stay as smooth as possible on the steering at all times.. By staying smooth the speed just comes naturally!!

StickyMicky

i thought i could handle my car 100%

i could drift it and slide it so easy, far to easy to control

then i tank slapped it into sum barriers and it cost a lot of money

SPEN555

pmsl!

It's when you do it again it's time to give yourself a slap

StickyMicky

once was enough for me

lesson learned

i was flat out in second gear when i over stepped the mark

scooby546

iTrader: (1)

Great thread, makes for some good reading. I haven't yet made it to the track but hope to get some experience of the above at some point this year... once I've convinced my other half it's not insane ("you're going to take your car where? to do what? " etc etc)

Anyway, here's a link to some driving dynamics info that i've found to make good reading:

http://www.donpalmer.co.uk/cchandbook/intro.htm

Pete

MaDaSS

Good info that, have been on Mister Palmers site before but never noticed that handbook.

Criss

Bit long, but still great everytime I watch it!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=srrbvNNUKrA