RR

You really need to read the post again. I said i was in 4th and i went from 80-147mph in that gear, i then went to 5th for 5-6 seconds i then looked behind to see a 30-40 car length gap. So thats the time i was in 4th gear plus the time i was in 5th (5-6 secs in 5th).

As for the 4.5 L cerbera, go to piston heads and show me a Sub 20 secs car with 420bhp from the dyno. Think more like 350bhp for the 4.5L. They never make the claimed power. Or very rarely.

RR

Post taken from the cerbera section on P/H

Tuesday 10th August 2004
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As has been said many times before... Most standard 4.5s have been between 330 and 350bhp, with around 300 to 330lbft. A few have been under 300bhp, but haven't seen any standard over 350 on a well known dyno. After Red Rose mods, mine made 398bhp @7200 and 350lbft - with the alternate 98 map. Only ran it on 95 fuel once and it was nasty.

SXS - you talk about "lemon" engines from the factory and imply yours is better. I'd say the factory are well aware of what the expected power is, and a lemon would be a sub 330 one. And competition ignition leads are going to make sod all difference assuming they weren't knackered in the first place!

LG John

If you dialled up 147mph in 4th gear then its very likely he gave up given the deficit. I'm not debating that the cerbera doesn't make its full quote of power as they rarely do. I doubt there is one that's left the factory that couldn't thump your car if the 0-100 and 0-150 times you provided are accurate.

I'd be amazed if a car with 420bhp left the factory with under 300 I'd reject it instantly if it was mines.

RR

So let me get this right a tvr cerbera which is proven to make less than 350bhp (which has been proven they do) and weighs 1100-1200kgs will out pace a car with 350bhp and weighs 1100-1200kgs. It must just be the badge that makes it quicker.

LG John

Not going to debate it but if you come accross a Cerbera that is remotely normal you will lose. As I said if a cerbera has 320bhp it is down 100bhp on what it is supposed to have and is unwell. I can accept some variance but that is taking the p*ss.

RR

http://www.joospeed.co.uk/

Scroll half way down and look at the actual power outputs. This is proven fact.

http://tvr.50megs.com/

I have come across a 4.5L Tvr cerbera, and sorry m8 it lost. Why do you think i know the facts about them, its because i researched afterwards as to why it would happen luckily enough my friend knew the guy via someone else who confirmed what happened and that the car was a 4.5L. So did i beat a 420bhp cerbera or was it down on power simply because they are.

LG John

...but for all the money in the world you can't change the fact you have a wee *****

I accept in fairness that I'd have a 350bhp scooby over a 172 or a cerbera as the 172 is fairly gay and the cerbera seldom works.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Now if the Cerbera worked more than 10% of the time.........

SB, Not many people would have the bottle to criticise the Clio for being 'Gay' from the driving seat of a bright orange convertible.......

LG John

S2k & 360 Modena - only two soft-tops in existance that aren't gay

The Chief

My hairdresser has an S2K - and he's as sweet as a nut!

noobscoob

I don't know about someones comment on the renault 182 cup being the best hot hatch ever.that really is a bit too much. i would say the civic r outshines it in some areas and thats before before the words build quality and driving position even enter the argument. thats one for the type r owners and clio boys to discuss.

i went to look at a 182..and i shall be honest..i have a thing for the older 172 cup. i have read extensive reports and reviews and they are given a glowing report..but i asked my brother to nip down and give me his opinion of the 182 the next day as i was serious on getting one and part exing in the scoob.

i got a call 25 mins later..and it wasn't good. and i have to agree..the seats are shockingly poor save for the new recaro set up you can get as option(its the cup version so we shall take off the alcantara and leather and leave nasty grey cloth..nice!!!)..the driving position is just..well..bad.the plastics make a scoobys look like an audi and every time i see one on a road test its inner rear wheel is 4 feet off the floor on a hard bend!! (i saw a vid of one racing a mi16 205 on a track..and the clio was pretty much holding its own..till it crashed!! whatever ..the sub 7 secs 60 run (some mags got 6 secs ) it certainly would have a standard 218bhp uk turbo 2000 for elevenses. that deserves respect. wrxs..possibly.

comparing the 182 clio and scooby is like comparing a handgun to a cannon. but beware..both are rather dangerous in the right hands.

oh and the other persons comment on the clio 182 being the top of the range..you forgot the v6 mate end of the day i like both the 182 AND the subaru impreza..and true petrolheads would think likewise!

now stop waving those ******. or ill get my dad to beat up yours

Steve vRS

Good post Noobscoob. The driving position isn't that bad to be honest. The plastics are crap and the seats look poo but they do hold you in position. the Clio is the better car than the Type R though (IMHO) as it has a more flexible engine. Sometimes it's nice to have some pull from 2500rpm. When I drove a Type R it was preety flat until 4500rpm. I also think the Clio looks better than the Type R - again IMHO.

As I posted earlier, I've had two Imprezas but at the moment I haven't got a lot of money to waste on cars due to house moves so the Clio fits the bill nicely.

Steve

noobscoob

Its a sub 7 second clio..that outperforms the fabled Williams(that so many people love)..and it even has cruise control ffs..on a clio!!! all for £11995.

have to say pound for pound it may not be the best made car..but it certainly offers the best bang for buck on a new hot hatch.

i should have been a car dealer lol

alwong

I cant see the cup beating the blobeye wrx with PPP (runs 260bhp) but there wouldn't be a great deal in it. My wrx ppp is quicker than my brtoehrs CTR and my mates CTR. I guess the CTR and clios are simialr in performance?

Also it was mentioned running the clio in 5.9sec to 60? is that with a stopwatch against the speedometer? You do know the speedometer is out by up to 10%. In my scooby when driving 60 it says around 55ish on my gps road angel (accurate to 1%). Im sure the factory times of 6.8secs are pretty accurate.

chris n`nic

No m8. It was official timing gear at YOrk. They had a 0-60 special and b4 you say it was inaccurate the scoobie times seemed fine and the other cars seemed spot on...I managed a good start and nail the change to 2nd .....BTW it wasn`t 5.9...it was 5.8!

Daz34

I think the CTR is too big and heavy to be classed as a truly great hot hatch.
IMHO a proper hot hatch has gotta be compact and weigh around a tonne or less.

davyboy

You are not going to see many tin top cars lighter than 1000kg any more.

New cars will just get heavier and heavier as new safety needs to be included in cars.

Senior_AP

That's the answer for all manufacturers, make heavier cars and stick more powerful engines in them and they *think* that is the answer.

davyboy

Modern safety equipment and toys are heavy, and until we get carbon fibre shells, then I guess things wont change.

Some manufacturer somewhere must see a market for a RWD tin top with no frills 200bhp and 1000kgs????

Senior_AP

Lotus.

davyboy

Tin top? I guess you could include a Exige in there..........

Mass manufacturer I was meaning, as in producing a reliable car.

Senior_AP

I would think an Exige is perfectly reliable, just perhaps a bit of effort to own.

TheJesus

I have this on video for anyone that doubts it... and for the record there's no chance in hell of a 150bhp Saab that I imagine weighs considerably more could even keep up, let alone pan any offering from Reno Sport... sounds to me like the Saab was racing a 1.2 and was struggling... lol

Nick Read

LOL what a chore it's been reading all 8 pages of this thread. Whoever it was who decided that their argument would rest on the fact that Cliosport people were 'chavs' - well...a pretty weak effort there I'd say.

Granted; it is a Scooby forum so not surprising that people want to defend their cars, even though this was originally about an old Saab. Bottom line is that many of the Clio drivers/tuners/racers on here speak from experience - they're not just armchair enthusiasts who've read a couple of issues of Evo, nor are they youngsters with limited driving experience.The 'Northern' Cliosporters in particular are not afraid to get out there and put things to the test in the real world, whether it be a cross-country hack or quarter miling at York.

And yes, I do have a Scoob AND a Clio - a 98 WRX wagon and my beloved turbocharged valver (1993 1.8 16v), soon to be going to a fellow Cliosporter who will no doubt be caning sub-300bhp Scoobies all over the North of England.

Both Clios and Scoobies are great cars in their own different ways.

davyboy

I went in a new one round Silverstone recently in one (with the new toyota engine ) and the owner was telling me a different story.

Senior_AP

I suppose every person has good/bad stories.

Best people to talk to about a car though is the owner, you get fact as opposed to internet scare-mongery or blatant bullsh!t.

TheJesus

we've lost one of if not the quickest Northern Clio recently... well, not so much lost as he blew it up... oops! lol

i'm sure it will be back soon, bigger and better and on the hunt for Scoobs and Evo's...

i wont even bother posting my encounters with Scooby's, i'll just wait til I can get some vids together

Jonto

Ahh, not that old "edit the video chestnut"

alwong

I guess Chris must have a special cliosport then as the time is very good.
It's over a second quicker than the manufacturers times. If thats the case then i'm sure its quicker than alot of standard scoobs.
I've raced cliosports before and beat them. I'm sure if i raced you then it would be very close.

TheJesus

Chris' car has only minor mods, RSport ECU (supplied and fitted by Reno iirc), viper induction, decat and stainless zorst and runs 14.1 @ 98? something like that anyway... it's fast, but there are a lot of Clio's now putting in these sort of times. some people will believe they are quicker, some wont. obviously any decent power Scooby will show our rot boxes a clean pair of heels, but even 280bhp Classics only really start to stretch their legs beyond 100.
Looking at the 1/4 mile figures of some of the cars the lower spec'd Impreza's seem to be getting low 14's, so your gonna need a 13 second car to be similar pace on the road based on that, as the 4WD makes the difference off the line. I dont get why it is so hard to believe though, the classic 215bhp and the newer 225bhp Scoobs are only quick when messed with from experience.